New Kelly Controler KEB Problem - HALL DEGREE

[Iroise2000]

Hi All !
It is my first message, i read a lot here, so intersting. Ecuse me for my bad english (french !).
So i have a Goldenmotor 1000W from 2008. I just buy a kelly controller KEB72451 and i have problems to make it on !

All wiring is set as simple (no switches, and no Ebrake). In the configuration programm i must choose 60 or 120 degree for hall sensor. I'm sure that GM is 120.
But if i start the controller with 120 degree configuration, i have always the red led that is blinking with 4,2 code (Hall sensor signal error, most likely caused by incorrect hall wiring, to wrong pin or loose wire, or intermittent or damaged hall sensor or double check hall angle setting, 60 degree or 120 degree).
If i start the configuration with 60 degree, just the green led is on, so it must be all ok ! but with all 36 combinaison, the motor can not spin with 60.

If the 5 (3+2) hall wire are disconnected, i have the same led alert on start up of the controller, ok with 60 and not ok with 120. When it is no ok, no current will go to motor !

If someone had sometimes the same problem or can help me, that will be super !, thanks.

Best regards
Yann
Swiss

 

[fechter]

I'm pretty sure the Golden motor is 120 degrees too.

Try connecting the hall wires and measure the voltage on each wire against battery negative while slowly rotating the wheel. Each signal wire should toggle between near zero and near 5v. The hall power wire should have a steady 5v.

The controller is sensing an invalid hall signal somewhere.

 

[nicobie]

I have a 600w BMC motor that I could not get to work with my GM controller. Isn't the BMC a 120* motor? If so, it should work, right?

I thought the GM was 60*. when replacing the halls on the GM (3 times now ) I noticed that the 3 halls are spread apart a total 60* on the rotor/stator. Is this what the 60* refers to?

I just bought a controller from Keywin that is supposed to work with the BMC, but we will see as I know someone who bought one and couldn't get it to work.

 

[HAL9000v2.0]

Same error blinks when you apply power first to main power suply or simultaniously to both. First swich on power to controller via small cable then wait for few sec then swich on power to B+.

 

[Iroise2000]

Thanks for responses !

So i try first what Mr. Fetcher sugest : seem to be a problem, i have always 4.7V between B- and Hall A B and C without turning the wheel.
If i don't connect the +5V, Ground and 3 hall sensor, the controller give me always that 4.7V, this with +5V and ground (this is normal), but same 4.7V with ground and A, B or C hall sensor ?????????????
With my Golden controller, I have 0V between ground and hall sensor when system is idle.

So I'm sure that pproblem is not coming from my motor that is fonctionning ok with GM controller.

I try what sugest HALL, first power controller and after B+, but still have the same problem.

What i don't understand, is why the red led blink with 120 degree configuration and not with 60 degree configuration. But with 60 and 120, still +4.7V beetwin ground B- and hall sensor.

Thanks
Yann

 

[fechter]

If all hall sensor signals are high (4.7v), then it would appear the ground wire is open somewhere between the battery and the hall sensors. Check the voltage on the ground wire. It should be zero. Double check all the connectors and pay attention to the black wire.

With a 60 deg. hall spacing, there is normally a spot where all 3 signals are high, so this is a valid combination and no error. With 120 deg spacing, there is no spot where all 3 are high, so the controller detects an invalid combination and triggers the fault code.

 

[Iroise2000]

Hi,

So i've made tests, and conclusion is that my new controller is faulty :

Ground is 0v, but the controller give +4.7v for all 3 Hall sensor pins. With Mr Fetcher Answer, i understand why with 120V it is always led fault at startup.

I will write to kelly controller and see if there is a solution or if i must send back the controller.

Thanks
Yann

 

[AussieJester]

Same error blinks when you apply power first to main power suply or simultaniously to both. First swich on power to controller via small cable then wait for few sec then swich on power to B+.

Yupz that's exactly how i had to wire mine to get it too work or it error codes every time you turn main power on... If you wait for the last blink of the error code to distinguish then quickly turn main power back on it starts up correctly i found

 

[fechter]

The hall signal pins coming from the controller have pull-up resistors, so if the hall sensor is disconnected, the line will be high. The halls senors pull the lines low when they are activated.

You should try feeding 5v to the hall sensors from a separate source (you can use a 6v or 9v battery), and measure the signal lines while rotating the wheel. Do this with the controller disconnected. This will verify if the motor part is working properly. The signal lines should toggle from high to low when the wheel is rotated.

I am suspicious of the measurements, since if the hall lines are held high by a stiff source and the hall tries to pull low against it, the sensors will fry.

 

[rkosiorek]

I have a 600w BMC motor that I could not get to work with my GM controller. Isn't the BMC a 120* motor? If so, it should work, right?

I thought the GM was 60*. when replacing the halls on the GM (3 times now ) I noticed that the 3 halls are spread apart a total 60* on the rotor/stator. Is this what the 60* refers to?

I just bought a controller from Keywin that is supposed to work with the BMC, but we will see as I know someone who bought one and couldn't get it to work.

if your BMC/MAC motor is anything like the rest of them it should be 120deg.

the 120 degree refers to ELECTRICAL degrees and not physical or mechanical degrees. so the hall sensors may be physically spaced 60 degrees apart but would in fact be 120 electrical degrees. another poster named The7 wrote quite an extensive thread on this subject a while back. he showed how the various mechanical and electrical layouts were calculated for various motors including Bafang, geared BMC hub, Crystalyte etc.

as far as testing Hall sensors goes "knuckles" wrote a nice set of instructions. incredibly the title is the very unobvious "Motor Hall Sensor and Harness Replacement" the link is http://www.endless-sphere.com/forum...626&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=testing+hall. the thread even has a couple of schematics where "fechter" describes a nice DIY tester for hall sensors.

another thread titled "Re: 60/120 degree continued" talks about how to test what kind of hall sensor setting your motor has.

as to your problem with the kelly controller. i would suspect that the hall sensors were improperly wired to the controller. kelly has a good reputation for support. try to contact them to see if they can help you with a specific wiring diagram.

i have been testing one of the ecrazyman/infineon controllers with a BMC geared hub and it works well. i am only using it at 24 and 36V so i have not run into the RPM issue that some have reported. but if i do i will just up the frequency of the resonator to compensate.

rick

if you are interested in The7's nice work on electrical vs mechanical hall spacing, feel free to use the "SEARCH" function to find it. half the reason these threads are so long is that the same questions are asked and answered over and over again.