New to ebike - need help puting together system

[javi]

Hi,

This is a great resource - thanks for any help you can give me. I am totally new to ebikes.

I am looking to make my current road bike into an ebike and need some help with picking things out. I will be using this kit to travel up to 30 miles between charges and would like to travel at 20 mph. I live in an area of a few biggish hills - in a typical run, I will travel 30 miles and need to get up (4) hills of about 1 mile long each (probably 8% grade). I am happy to pedal some on uphill. I weigh 175lbs and bike weighs around 30lbs currently.

Here is what I am looking at from EM3EV:

- 500/1000 W MAC kit with 9 fet 30A controller, 10T motor, 700c Alex DM24 CNC wheel, standard spoke, Thumb throttle, Yes to ebrakes.

- 50V 18.5ah Triangle battery pack

- Case Charger 58.8V, 5A, 14S Li Ion/NCM (with switch)

I am old, so do not need to go real fast. I want to make my batteries last as long as possible since they seem the expensive part of the deal so I plan to do 90% charge/90% discharge since I have read that can double the amount of cycles. My questions:

-Is the 10T motor the most efficient for my use?

- I have read on EM3ev site that these batteries should last between 500-800 cycles to get to 80% capacity. How many cycles till I get to 60% capacity?

- should I order any spare parts for MAC motor?

- Is my battery big enough? I could go to 50V 25ah, but it is $300 more. Is there another battery I should be looking at that lasts longer. I am willing to sacrifice some weight for longer lasting - I basically want to minimize my cost per cycle over the long term.

-If my goal is to make batteries last long time, is it worth it to buy Cycle Assist? Is there a cheaper way to monitor battery usage?

- any spare parts/tools etc I should be looking at?

Thanks a lot for any help!

 

[Ykick]

What's the bike like? Gotta pic? Make, model?

30 miles is a LONG way to ride any bicycle and a fast heavy eBike will both give & take a beating. 50V@18.5Ah is probably enough but unlikely to have much left in reserve unless you're strict about 20MPH. More battery the better but 18.Ah is already a heavy bastard. 25Ah - not my thing.

I believe you meant "Cycle Analyst" and yes it's well worth the expense. I know it probably doesn't seem that way now but after talking myself out of it for years I finally gave in and realize what I've been missing from the experience.

Tires tend to have their own learning curve along with spokes, wheels, brakes, seats/saddles, lighting, etc. Practically everything bicycle is magnified when doubling (or more) the weight in addition to average speeds and distances.

You'll probably receive more advice if you enter a general location in your profile.

 

[SouthWindDuck]

Tires... I pushed my luck on my 1000+ mile pedal power with no flat tires.. 148 miles into ebike.. Replacing them right now.. 2.5 miles walking back home.. Thank gawd for full battery.

It was like walking a rambunctious wolf hound

 

[javi]

Thanks for the replies.

I live in SW Wisconsin and my bike is a Panasonic Touring Deluxe Model. It is made of Steel and has held up over the years for me.

I have done many long bike tours on this bike carrying more than 70lbs of gear at times. So I have experience on long rides (though I don't do much more than 30 miles at a shot these days) and I have experience with carrying weight on a bike and its affect on bike handling.

I am open to larger batteries if it means I have more in reserve or means it will last longer for what I am asking of it. I also intend to pedal most of any ride, but I would like to do 2/3 less work. Basically I would like to do the same work as I now do to go 10 miles and end up being able to go 30 miles.

Any more comments or answers to specific questions are welcome and appreciated!

 

[Ykick]

Your bike is sorta what I was looking for with this recently completed project:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49889&hilit=700cc&start=25

It's almost shame to go too heavy motor - Big Mac and Direct drive hubs seem to go better with Mountain bike's IMO. I've been riding one of those for several years but TBH it's a motorcycle. 700c road bike with 12lbs motor/battery around 40lbs total weight is much more bicycle'ish.

I just rode 12 miles today and consumed 'little under 2Ah from a 5Ah labelled pack - about 10Wh/mi. Road bikes + meaningful pedaling can really stretch the battery pack so 30 miles from 18.5Ah labelled capacity is probably very doable.

 

[spisska]

Hi,

Here is what I am looking at from EM3EV:

- 500/1000 W MAC kit with 9 fet 30A controller, 10T motor, 700c Alex DM24 CNC wheel, standard spoke, Thumb throttle, Yes to ebrakes.

- 50V 18.5ah Triangle battery pack

- Case Charger 58.8V, 5A, 14S Li Ion/NCM (with switch)

This is very similar to the setup I have, although I'm on 26" wheels, and a much heavier bike. When I put it together, I estimated my range would about 25-30 miles with minimal pedaling on flat ground, not accounting for wind. What I'm actually seeing is a range closer to 35 miles, as long as I use the CA to keep consumption below about 1,000W, and keep my speed below 20-25 mph.

On a road bike where you'll be using this setup as pedal-assist, you should make 35 miles easily, although that's assuming you'll do some pedaling.

-Is the 10T motor the most efficient for my use?

Probably. 8T and you're trading torque for speed, which you probably won't like as much. You'll already be getting part of this effect because of your bigger wheel, and you'll probably wish you came faster off the line or had more help in the climb rather than a couple extra mph on a sprint. 12T is probably too far the other way -- the extra pulling power is unnecessary since you're not that heavy, the bike's not that heavy, and you don't appear to be hauling any heavy cargo.

- I have read on EM3ev site that these batteries should last between 500-800 cycles to get to 80% capacity. How many cycles till I get to 60% capacity?

It's not quite so simple. When new, the battery will outperform its designed specs for a short time before settling into a plateau, where performance will decline very slowly. Once you get towards the end of the battery's life, the performance drop accelerates sharply.

- Is my battery big enough? I could go to 50V 25ah, but it is $300 more. Is there another battery I should be looking at that lasts longer. I am willing to sacrifice some weight for longer lasting - I basically want to minimize my cost per cycle over the long term.

Your battery should be big enough, assuming you'll be doing some pedaling. The bigger one will probably just be extra weight.

-If my goal is to make batteries last long time, is it worth it to buy Cycle Assist? Is there a cheaper way to monitor battery usage?

Get the Cycle Analyst. Also get the three-position switch if it's not a part of the thumb throttle. With the CA, this allows you to switch power profiles on the fly, dialing back power to extend range, for example.

- any spare parts/tools etc I should be looking at?

A spare throttle or two is also a good idea, as they fail pretty frequently. Or if I were building a road bike, I might look at a torque sensor rather than a throttle and make it pure pedal-assist. Although if I were planning to ride it 30 miles all the time, maybe not.

 

[DAND214]

I would say the 10t will fill the bill just fine. Keep it around 20 with some assist and 30 miles should be no problem.

Extra parts, as said a couple extra throttles some spare spokes if possible, I always carry a throttle and controller as a spare. get a torque arm and if you have room a seat post shock absorber. Ridding at 20 on a hard tail in northern states is a rough ride.

A CA is not a must but is sure a nice tool to have. You also might want the programming cable, not needed if you don't plaan on changing the settings. It's cheap now with the order.
Back to the spokes, I would go for the SAPIM spokes, a few bucks will come out better in the end.

Dan

 

[javi]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I will be upgrading to Sapin spokes (with some spares), ordering a cycle analyst, ordering a couple of extra throttles, the three-position switch with cruise. Thanks for those suggestions. A few more questions:

- I can be a slow pedal-er uphill and there will be times I will be carrying some extra weight on this bike (maybe 20 - 40 extra pounds). Will overheating my 10T be a big issue at all? Would the 12T make any sense (not sure if that would even help with this)?

- I see that there are two versions of the Cycle Analyst - which one would you guys recommend for me? It looks like V3 will allow me to monitor temperature in my MAC motor (and I think the MAC motor is set up for this), so I am leaning toward V3, but would welcome any comments.

- Are there other motors I should be considering for my uses? Lighter is always better, but I value durability most of all and availability of spare parts in the future. Is MAC the one? If so, any spare parts for that motor that I should order with my initial order given how I intend to use this motor?

- What about the "ebike tester" that EM3EV sells? Would it be wise to spend $20 on this? I have a fluke multimeter, but am pretty basic when it comes to these things.

- What about "ebrake"? It appears to come with the MAC motor kit, but I don't see anything in the pictures. Can anyone explain how the ebrake works and if I need to order anything else?

Thanks!

 

[spisska]

- I can be a slow pedal-er uphill and there will be times I will be carrying some extra weight on this bike (maybe 20 - 40 extra pounds). Will overheating my 10T be a big issue at all? Would the 12T make any sense (not sure if that would even help with this)?

My bike has never seen a hill, so I'll leave this one.

- I see that there are two versions of the Cycle Analyst - which one would you guys recommend for me? It looks like V3 will allow me to monitor temperature in my MAC motor (and I think the MAC motor is set up for this), so I am leaning toward V3, but would welcome any comments.

Get the V3. It's a major upgrade. And yes, it does report the motor temperature.

- What about the "ebike tester" that EM3EV sells? Would it be wise to spend $20 on this? I have a fluke multimeter, but am pretty basic when it comes to these things.

It's basically a board with all the matching terminations onto it as your kit. It's useful for quick diagnostics, but doesn't do anything that a proper multimeter can't do. If you want to troubleshoot quickly, this tool is much faster than a multimeter. Is that worth $20?

- What about "ebrake"? It appears to come with the MAC motor kit, but I don't see anything in the pictures. Can anyone explain how the ebrake works and if I need to order anything else?

The ebrake is a cutoff switch to make sure no power goes to the motor when the brakes are engaged. It doesn't provide any braking force on a MAC motor, but only cuts off power to the motor. This is useful because a throttle can fail in a wide-open state.

Thanks![/quote]

 

[dogman dan]

The 8 % grades will be no problem for the 10T. But if you really will only want 20 mph or less, consider the 12t.

It's just so rare, most tend to want to go faster once they can.

Personally, I like the very slow motors, but mine are all dd type. I've not tried the 12t mac myself. But if you are going to ride slow anyway, then the 12t will get up the hills more efficiently.

20 mph will take about 400w on average. So the 900wh battery you chose should go two hours, at 20 mph. 40 miles quite possible. I don't think you need 25 ah.

 

[999zip999]

Yes you are heading down the right road.
Mac 10t 700c
9 fet. 30 amp
Or less with turning down with C.A. equals more distance.
Battery is fine 18ah, make a cardboard box that size and fit it to your bike.
Maybe discharge 80% better.
I keep my battery charged. But 90% better.
Rear motor and torque arm.

 

[javi]

Thanks so much everyone for the replies and answers to my questions - this is a great forum and I would be lost without.

I am getting excited! It will still be a couple of weeks till I place my order, but I know what I will be getting at this point. I will do a review when set up - Have a great weekend and thanks again!

 

[motomech]

Cel_man and his products are great and since you are ordering from him the running gear, it would make sense to get one of his batteries as well.
But have you considered Lipo at all?
I, like many here, started with a pre-built battery system, switched to Lipo when my "quality" Lithium Ion battery died in the second year(partly my fault)and I wouldn't go back.
Much of my Ebike enjoyment is derrived by the amazing performance of Lipo. It is lighter, smaller and less expensive than anything else out there. I could build a 12S(top charge of 50V)/20Ah pack with charger for around $600.
But it does come with requirements, but if I read you correctly, it might be a good fit. For sure your Ebike needs woud work out well with Lipo.
Study-I too, am no Spring Chicken, but I like to learn new things and have enjoyed learning about Lipo here on the Sphere.
Time-Lipo does require more time to maintain, but I am retired and have the space and time to "play with my babies". In fact, I probably dolt on them too much.
If I was comunting daily, I might not be so willing to devote time to them at the end of the day.
System-Staying below 50V makes building the pack much easier and safer to use.

Usually, most here would not recommend Lipo to a first-time Ebiker, but if you think it might be right for you, you can get the best "bang for the buck" straight away.
The quality of the Lipo(I like Turngey) and the hardware(Thunder 1220 charger)has never been better or safer than they are today.

 

[999zip999]

Lipo is a hobby battery, do want a hobby just charging and following you battery. Or a plug and ride battery pack.