New to the forum with some upgrade questions

gwsaltspring

gwsaltspring

100 W
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
128
Location
Saltspring Island, B.C.
Hi All;

Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. Been lurking for a bit trying to get up to speed so to speak on the forums dynamics.

I have been using a 406 (front hub) with 20A controller and 36V12Ah NiMH battery pack. I will be moving over the summer and the parameters that I used for the previous set up are changing quite a bit from a reasonably flat with some hills to a 7km (what is that? 4.5 Miles?) uphill slog from town to home.

I have been in contact with Justin at E-Bikes in Vancouver and he made the suggestion that I could go to a 5 series with 35A controller and a 48V12Ah battery pack (2-24V packs in series)

I am looking for additional suggestions for a setup that I might consider. Bike and motor.

I think hill climbing capability is a primary criteria, I would like to be able to keep up with the traffic reasonably well since I live in a rural area with no shoulder to speak of, (drove the route in the Mini last night and while I can certainly go faster on some parts 40KPH on the narrow twisting road was ample) and suspension, these roads seem to be getting rougher all the time.

I am electrically challenged ,so a lot of what I have read goes over my head.

Additionally I have a Suzuki DR350S dual sport MC that might be a good candidate for an EV conversion but that is for another thread.

Comments, observations welcome ;)

Cheers Greg :D
 
The hubmotor calculator should tell you if the 406 will do the job. Going to a 35 amp controller will make a big difference. Increasing the battery voltage will also increase the motor current, giving you better hill climbing.
 
Before getting a new bike, maybe try 48 v on the 406 and see how you like it. I haven't tried this motor but i understand it to be geared rather tall so 48v may still not give you satisfactory performance up hills. You don't have anythinge to loose really and it would be easy to put another sla battery in just to find out. That's assuming your controller can handle 48 v. If you really need torque, consider relacing the 406 into a smaller wheel. That would mean getting a smaller bike too most likely. It all comes down to how much money you want to spend and what you want to try first.
 
gwsaltspring said:
Hi All;

Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. Been lurking for a bit trying to get up to speed so to speak on the forums dynamics.
Click to expand...
We all welcome you to the forum, glad to have you here. :)
I have been using a 406 (front hub) with 20A controller and 36V12Ah NiMH battery pack. I will be moving over the summer and the parameters that I used for the previous set up are changing quite a bit from a reasonably flat with some hills to a 7km (what is that? 4.5 Miles?) uphill slog from town to home.

I have been in contact with Justin at E-Bikes in Vancouver and he made the suggestion that I could go to a 5 series with 35A controller and a 48V12Ah battery pack (2-24V packs in series)

I am looking for additional suggestions for a setup that I might consider. Bike and motor.

I think hill climbing capability is a primary criteria, I would like to be able to keep up with the traffic reasonably well since I live in a rural area with no shoulder to speak of, (drove the route in the Mini last night and while I can certainly go faster on some parts 40KPH on the narrow twisting road was ample) and suspension, these roads seem to be getting rougher all the time.
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A higher amp controller will give you some more torque for the hills, but it will eat your batteries alive. Not because they are 12 AH, but because the motor you have is better suited for flat/high assist e-bikes. The 406 motor is wonderful, I love mine, but it's not the best high climber unless you are willing to put a lot of your own effort into the ride (isn't an issue for me, I ride all the time in local bike clubs) Think of it like a trade off between top speed and "granny" gear style hill climbing.

I'm certain others here will chime in with their experience with the 408, 4011, X5 Series, and other hub motor designs on what may work best.

I am electrically challenged ,so a lot of what I have read goes over my head.

Additionally I have a Suzuki DR350S dual sport MC that might be a good candidate for an EV conversion but that is for another thread.

Comments, observations welcome ;)

Cheers Greg :D
Click to expand...

Don't worry, before long you'll be spouting out AH, Volts, Current, etc like the rest of us :lol:
 
Wow that was fast, thanks folks

Lowell I was kind of hoping you might reply. I am planning on coming over for the VEVA meet at Spanish Banks in a couple of weeks and the hill up to UBC would be a favourable comparison to the climb out of Ganges. Any chance you will be around that weekend?

Fetcher I have run some numbers through the simulator but I'm afraid I don't really understand what it is telling me.

I guess I want to know whether I need to start over with my equipment or can I do things like add a new controller and say double my voltage to get what I think I want in my bike ie speedy hill climbing without cooking the 406 etc....

So much that I don't know and need to learn. Think I am getting lazier as I get older :wink:
 
What size wheel are tyou running the 406 in? I think in a small wheel, it might be ok. meaning 16-20 inch, and with enough voltage.

If it was me, I would try the 406 first, upgrading to the 35A controller and 72V batteries.
if it turns out not to work, yopu wouldn't have lost any money, as you could then reuse the controller and batteries.
you could try one of the X5 series, or alternatly, try something like the 4012
 
I'm running 26" wheels.

So is anyone out there running a 406 with the 35A controller and 72V battery pack?

Cheers
 
I believe ypedal has... you out there ypedal?

He's also got his 406 in a smaller wheel... maybe 20"
 
gwsaltspring said:
Wow that was fast, thanks folks

Lowell I was kind of hoping you might reply. I am planning on coming over for the VEVA meet at Spanish Banks in a couple of weeks and the hill up to UBC would be a favourable comparison to the climb out of Ganges. Any chance you will be around that weekend?
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As long as the weather is half decent I will be at the VEVA meet with my bike. I'd like to race some other EVs up the Spanish Banks hill.
 
That is great Lowell, Perhaps we could communiate a bit closer to the date and sort out a meeting.

BTW what is your set up? bike, (suspension Y/N) wheel size, motor, controller, batts? Oh and did you go with straight spokes?

Greg
 
gwsaltspring said:
That is great Lowell, Perhaps we could communiate a bit closer to the date and sort out a meeting.

BTW what is your set up? bike, (suspension Y/N) wheel size, motor, controller, batts? Oh and did you go with straight spokes?

Greg
Click to expand...

Rocky Mountain Experience, Rock Shox Tora, 26" rims, X503 hub, modified Crystalyte 72v/35a controller, 91v, 18Ah NiMH. Spokes are DT Swiss in the normal pattern with washers at the hub flange.
 
lowell, I really want to know about and see your 503 wheel! I've been strugling with and posting about getting a 504 rear 7 spd to retain tight spokes for over a year. Luckily I have a Tidalforce to ride.

-- Front or rear? Size rim?

-- Exactly which DT Swiss spokes do you have, guage & length? Did you have to cut them? Where did you get them?

-- Who built the wheeel?

-- What type of washers did you use and what is their function?

-- Did you use locktite or locking nipples?

-- What rim did you use?

-- Any other mods or techniques on the wheel?

-- What torque arm do yoou use?

-- Has this wheel seen hard riding and how does it hold up?

-- Do you have pics?

Thanks,
Al

PS I don't mean to dilute this thread but if saltspring goes for a C-lyte 5X he will need to know how to build a wheel for it cause they don't seem to work out of the box.
 
If you get a Xlyte wheel motor already installed in the wheel, the wheel truing will most likely be laughably bad, (depending on where you get it), so you need to get a spoke wrench and read up on how to true the wheel or you won't be able to use a rim brake because the wheel will invariably wobble like a drunken sailor and rub against the pads.
 
Instant Karma made me laugh out loud just now lol... I chose to get all my motors from crystalyte un-laced after receiving 4 examples of their work !!!! I'll do my own thank you very much hehe..

About the 406.. I would advise against the 72v on that motor, in a 26" wheel you might hit warp speed going down a hill. but you sure won't climb them efficiently at all..

You can try the 35 amp controller at your current voltage, and current motor, but again, it won't be a great hill climber.

I have a dual speed 406/409 on my Chaos in a 20" wheel at 72v 20 amps and even in a 20" wheel 406 is just too damn fast to be useful. In 409 however .. it does very well !!!


so.. all that said.. since you are local to Justin's shop, you could easily buy the 35 amp controller and see how it does.. then change to a different motor at a later time if it does not work out.. ( the same controller will work with both motors )

What is going to happen with the 406 is that if you can't keep the speeds up above 30 + km/h going up the hill, the controller will draw 40 amps all the way to the top and make alot of heat and waste battery power..
 
Thanks All

YPedal.

Yes I have already experienced what you are talking about on a very steep hill here on Island. And I know what Karma is talking about, I was not too impressed with the spokes in the 406.

I really like the look of the straight spokes in some of the wheel pics any idea how large of a wheel they can work in?

Justin has been a good resource though I think I may irritate him a bit with some of my questions. ( I have a tendency to be slow to make choices and like to explore my options )

Having spent some more time reading through posts here, I am beginning to get a better idea of what I am after and have what I think are a bit more informed questions.

Is there a Newbie flowchart thread?

IE something along the lines of:

1.) start with the bike : existing or new

2.) potential application : hill climbing or flat out speed

3.) Bike features to look for depending on application : steel, shocks, wheel size, brakes etc.

4.) Motor configurations from the major players Clyte, Puma, etc...

5.) Battery recommendations to think about

6.) Perhaps a list of mentors within the various categories that might be willing to answer some newbie questions or at least......

YP have also enjoyed reading about your progression of bikes. And I liked the look of Deec.... (sp?) bike build II posts.

I think I have finally found the group of riders that are after the goal that I am. I feel really inspired!

Greg

BTW Justin has suggested two basic reconfigurations: adding a second 406 with 35A controller and 48V batteries or going with a 5304 and 48V. So I think I am narrowing things down a bit
 
gwsaltspring said:
Is there a Newbie flowchart thread?
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In a way, it's in the works. We have a lot of great people here with a lot of difference experiences with e-bikes (motors, controllers, batteries, etc) So I've been trying to build a site we can dump all that info into, so that the authors get the credit for their work along with some ads at the bottom that the author can make some pocket change out of if someone finds their work to be helpful (click a few ads, etc.)

But for now, it's all just what you can find here in the forums at the moment. :?
 
The information on this forum is arranged like my workshop. I know where to find stuff (usually), but it's pretty tough for someone else to find things.

There's definitely room for improvement in the organization. Keep the suggestions coming.

Meanwhile, don't hesitate to ask a question even if you think it's burried in the archives.
 

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What's that funny looking thing with the keypad on the corner of the desk? A voice-recognition calculator perhaps? :)
 
xyster said:
What's that funny looking thing with the keypad on the corner of the desk? A voice-recognition calculator perhaps? :)
Click to expand...

Oops... that's supposed to be TOP SECRET!
 
Thanks for the replies.

I guess I am a little bit gun shy based on my experiences on a couple of other forums so I have taken to reading as much as possible before posting a bunch of previously asked questions.

It also gives me a sense of who I want to pay attention to.

Perhaps I will start another thread that chronicles my questions and could be referenced by others looking to head down the same path.

So if those of you with more experience care to respond with basic newbie answers to some of my questions I might be able to assist within this community rather than being a drain.

Greg
 
Any help is appreciated.

You can't build a FAQ page without having questions.
You have questions... we have answers.

One problem is the answers tend to change over time, as companies go out of business and new ones pop up, so things should be arranged such that it's easy to keep them updated.

OK Xyster, vacation is over.
What happened to putting together a motor comparison and where to buy from page?
 
OK Xyster, vacation is over.
What happened to putting together a motor comparison and where to buy from page?
Click to expand...

Remember, you said you wanted to make it a group project sans assigned sections and such. I got it started, no one added to it....which is why I originally suggested properly-credited sections would need to be assigned to willing, capable volunteers, else'n the FAQ would never get done!

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=531&highlight=faq

"fechter wrote:
I think that's a good start. Perhaps we can attempt to answer the questions here, then once there's a pretty good bunch of stuff, we can condense it into a sticky post for the reference library."
Xyster wrote:
"Since His Fech-ness wants it done by random volunteer submission, people who want to, should add to it however they can. Plagiarizing ypedal's work would make a good start. :D"
 
Well I'm willing to give it a go in a simple fashion. I can see that the options and possibilities are probably going to be beyond my abilities to assimilate but perhaps I can ask and you folks could respond and we can see where it goes. EH?

Greg
 
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