New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[RTIII]

When it displayed 100km/hr exactly, I knew something was wrong with it. It seems to generate a lot of electrical noise if too close to the magnet and the speed counter only goes up as far 100km/hr ....

...I think me and my TSDZ2 hold the world's record for speed; my brand new unit from eye, on its first time out got me up to an indicated 172 miles per hour! 8) :lol:

Since I couldn't reset the unit, I had eye swap out both the speed sensor and VLCD-5. Now it works normally - got it up a little over 22 MPH today, and consider that great for a fat-tire bike with baskets.

 

[John and Cecil]

Hello, we just got our motor last week (tsdz2 750w 48v) and installed it on a Raleigh Kodiak 1 full suspension bike. The installation went well, however we are going to be moving in a couple of months so I decided to temporarily try a small battery as we cannot take the battery with us. I thought I read the IGO 56v 2ah battery was able to put out about 20 amps, however when I hook the battery up to the motor the wheel will only spin very slowly (maybe 1 mph). The screen displays the battery with a full charge, and the wheel moves the same speed with the throttle regardless of it being in eco, turbo etc. I do nt feel any assist when pedaling. We are bummed, Cecil was very excited about going for a test ride

Do you guys think it is the battery that is the issue? Is there any way to test the motor without buying a battery? Maybe the 4ah battery would work better? I do not want to buy an expensive battery only to have to sell it in a couple months when we move. Thanks.

Here is a pic of the bike, it is still under construction. The milk crate is temporary until Cecil's box is finished.

 

[RTIII]

Hello, we just got our motor last week (tsdz2 750w 48v) and installed it on a Raleigh Kodiak 1 full suspension bike. The installation went well, however we are going to be moving in a couple of months so I decided to temporarily try a small battery as we cannot take the battery with us. I thought I read the IGO 56v 2ah battery was able to put out about 20 amps, however when I hook the battery up to the motor the wheel will only spin very slowly (maybe 1 mph). The screen displays the battery with a full charge, and the wheel moves the same speed with the throttle regardless of it being in eco, turbo etc. I do nt feel any assist when pedaling. We are bummed, Cecil was very excited about going for a test ride

Do you guys think it is the battery that is the issue? Is there any way to test the motor without buying a battery? Maybe the 4ah battery would work better? I do not want to buy an expensive battery only to have to sell it in a couple months when we move. Thanks.

Here is a pic of the bike, it is still under construction. The milk crate is temporary until Cecil's box is finished.

DSCN2821.JPG

John, here's one of my two TSDZ2 equipped bikes, this one very similar to yours in many respects:

The "build thread" for that bike is here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89956

I use it regularly, was just out in it today. A round-trip errand run to my bank was around 2.2 miles and it ate up 1.27 amp hours, but that was pedaling pretty hard with one moderately steep overpass in about the dead center of the ride (both ways, there and back). When I use the throttle and barely pedal at all, this bike eats up 2.01 Ah per mile. In sharp contrast, my skinny tire Raleigh (replica) gets vastly better "mileage". My best was about 20 miles using only 3.73 Ah. ...I think it's all in the tires. That bike's build thread is here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88943

My bike (the one pictured above) has, as you can see, a rather convenient kickstand for testing purposes and it'll scream up to beyond what can be done on the road just with use of the hand throttle (for some reason it kicks out at about 38 miles per hour, if I recall correctly). So, if it won't speed up to a lot, then you probably have some kind of supply problem. Maybe just a completely bum battery. Given that you shouldn't drain a battery entirely, expect maybe 3 miles out of it (at higher speeds) or about 3.5 miles until the battery is flat. Or, if your unit is more like my other bike, you'll get a lot further at maybe 10 miles!

BTW, here's my average speed on this bike!

(Yes, I should have posted this in my earlier reply! 8) ...And, I was wrong, it was 179 MPH!

 

[gggplaya]

Hello, we just got our motor last week (tsdz2 750w 48v) and installed it on a Raleigh Kodiak 1 full suspension bike. The installation went well, however we are going to be moving in a couple of months so I decided to temporarily try a small battery as we cannot take the battery with us. I thought I read the IGO 56v 2ah battery was able to put out about 20 amps, however when I hook the battery up to the motor the wheel will only spin very slowly (maybe 1 mph). The screen displays the battery with a full charge, and the wheel moves the same speed with the throttle regardless of it being in eco, turbo etc. I do nt feel any assist when pedaling. We are bummed, Cecil was very excited about going for a test ride

Do you guys think it is the battery that is the issue? Is there any way to test the motor without buying a battery? Maybe the 4ah battery would work better? I do not want to buy an expensive battery only to have to sell it in a couple months when we move. Thanks.

Here is a pic of the bike, it is still under construction. The milk crate is temporary until Cecil's box is finished.

DSCN2821.JPG

The voltage may be too high and the motor controller doesn't like it??? Can you get it down below say 54v.

The only other way to check it to hook it up to some other 48v power supply or bank of batteries. Do you happen to have four 12v car, motorcycle, or lawn mower batteries in your house?? You could take them out of their vehicles and put them in series to see if the motor spins properly.

 

[John and Cecil]

(Yes, I should have posted this in my earlier reply! 8) ...And, I was wrong, it was 179 MPH!

Thank you for the reply. I like your bikes. I need to build a kickstand too! I have not ridden a bike in a very long time plus I have an extra 35lbs of weight with my dog and his carrier and gear so I am really looking forward to the motor assist (especially on hills). I know I can only get a couple of miles max out of this small battery, especially with the 27.5 plus width tires. I had the tire up in the air again this evening and the motor actually did kick twice briefly at full speed, just for a moment. I think the battery is ok, it was brand new and unopened and it was not fully discharged when I removed it from the package and it appeared to charge properly and for about the correct amount of time.

Perhaps my problem is that the battery's voltage is too high at full charge. I heard some people complain that the 14s battery packs sometimes go just a touch beyond the max voltage and some people were saying they had to discharge the battery a little to get the voltage down. If the battery is a little over the max volts will the tire spin slowly and unevenly? Perhaps I can find something I can plug into the battery to bring the voltage down a little.

The motor only kicked for about a second but when it did the tire must have been doing 30mph in that 1 second! I left the display light on, perhaps that will drain the battery a little bit. Perhaps it is possible to disconnect one of the internal battery cells to lower the voltage too. I got a really good deal on this battery ($40 for a brand new 56v 2ah battery with a used charger) and small/cheap 13s batteries are impossible to find. I don't know if anyone even makes 48v tool batteries with high amp discharge rates.

 

[John and Cecil]

The voltage may be too high and the motor controller doesn't like it??? Can you get it down below say 54v.

The only other way to check it to hook it up to some other 48v power supply or bank of batteries. Do you happen to have four 12v car, motorcycle, or lawn mower batteries in your house?? You could take them out of their vehicles and put them in series to see if the motor spins properly.

I think maybe you are right. It did kick twice into full power, and when the tire slowly spins it is not smooth and it pulses a bit. I need to find something to drain the battery down a bit. I dont have any other batteries or vehicles. I already sold the car and the motorcycle for our future move to Europe Maybe I can disconnect one of the internal cell, but then the charger may no longer work. I just hooked up a meter to the battery and it is registering at 58v.

If this turns out to be the issue perhaps I can use a timer and undercharge the battery a little. I probably should have bought the bafang as it can use 56v tool batteries without issue but I wanted to keep the weight down and I liked the idea of the torque sensor.

Thank you.

 

[RTIII]

(Yes, I should have posted this in my earlier reply! 8) ...And, I was wrong, it was 179 MPH!

Thank you for the reply. I like your bikes. I need to build a kickstand too!

You might want to look for where I added them to my two bikes for some simple lessons learned. The second of the two (the San Rafael) is better done, of course, but there are good points in the process documented for each. The second type stand is MUCH easier to get right in terms of rotational orientation since it doesn't have a flat region to contact the ground.

I have not ridden a bike in a very long time plus I have an extra 35lbs of weight with my dog and his carrier and gear so I am really looking forward to the motor assist (especially on hills).

My first bike has more in the way of luggage racks, but I later decided to change my tune somewhat. Both have a semi-permanently mounted rear rack that can take a milk crate when desired - mostly left mounted. It's important it can't shift when installed. The first bike (the Raleigh replica LeGran) has a removable basket that is at times SUPER helpful, and I like it enough I'm doing a front one on the San Rafael, too. But I've had to make my own mounting strategies since the off-the-shelf wasn't going to work for me. ....I like stuff in front so I can _see_ and possibly _access_ items in it while riding. BUT, for heavier items, I've mostly given up on the side baskets. They work, but I much prefer the trailer - notice both bikes have the trailer hitch. Maybe Cecil will like having his own trailer?!

Perhaps my problem is that the battery's voltage is too high at full charge. I heard some people complain that the 14s battery packs sometimes go just a touch beyond the max voltage and some people were saying they had to discharge the battery a little to get the voltage down.

Well, the vast majority of reports are that 14S does not work on this unit, but someone has reported here that they just charge their battery to the max the unit will take and it works out to about 80% charge which is a good choice for longevity anyway - but you won't have much range from a theoretical 2Ah battery! BTW, your peak you can get away with is about 54.5, IIRC.

I don't know how you can safely discharge it some, but you'll want a charger that won't try and overcharge it. I have the
Cycle Satiator from Grin and HIGHLY recommend it. Use their "48V" charge cycle and it will work fine, you just have to get it below that first. Or, I suppose, any 48V charger should work, but you want the FULL "48V" charge and not a lower amount since you're already one cell short!

If I were you, I'd just get the right battery. Maybe find one used in your area, and then try and sell it back to whomever for even less when you go! You can bring a good charger with you, I guess, so while the satiator is expensive, at least you'll be very happy with it!

 

[John and Cecil]

Yeah my rear rack needs to be permanent, Cecil goes with me everywhere. I was thinking about converting a trailer to a sidecar but I prefer the agility of 2 wheels and I like him being close to me. We got used to riding on the motorcycles and we share eye contact through the mirrors.

I guess the battery has too much power when full charged, even though it has low capacity. I read online the motor works with up to 58.6v but I am starting to think that number was optimistic. Maybe I can hook up my voltmeter while I charge it and then pull it off the charger when it reaches a certain voltage. It does not matter much, I plan on getting a much larger battery when we get to Europe but until then I would be happy with just 5 minutes of hill climbing I was thinking about building my own battery, but instead of soldering I would like to make the cells removable so I can carry them on a plane. Large batteries are banned but carrying individual cells are allowed within reason and I believe you can ship individual cells legally without a dangerous substance shipping company.

Why does everything have to be so difficult? Don't they realize we are trying to save the planet?

Here is a pic of Cecil on the motorcycle, he was so upset when I sold it and the guy rode away on it:

 

[tomjasz]

Hi Guys
I have a unit 36v 15a with throttle that has been running well for this past year. Yesterday when starting it up I got an error code 04. What is that and what do I need to do to correct it?

I blieve that is a throttle error, ch3ck the connection. In my opinion these motors do better without a throttle. YMMV

 

[gggplaya]

The voltage may be too high and the motor controller doesn't like it??? Can you get it down below say 54v.

The only other way to check it to hook it up to some other 48v power supply or bank of batteries. Do you happen to have four 12v car, motorcycle, or lawn mower batteries in your house?? You could take them out of their vehicles and put them in series to see if the motor spins properly.

I think maybe you are right. It did kick twice into full power, and when the tire slowly spins it is not smooth and it pulses a bit. I need to find something to drain the battery down a bit. I dont have any other batteries or vehicles. I already sold the car and the motorcycle for our future move to Europe Maybe I can disconnect one of the internal cell, but then the charger may no longer work. I just hooked up a meter to the battery and it is registering at 58v.

If this turns out to be the issue perhaps I can use a timer and undercharge the battery a little. I probably should have bought the bafang as it can use 56v tool batteries without issue but I wanted to keep the weight down and I liked the idea of the torque sensor.

Thank you.

I thought Europe was limited to 250watt motors??? You might want to slap a 250w sticker on that motor :lol:

Since you're leaving for europe soon, you can just buy a bunch of used laptop batteries, pull the cells and make a pack and wrap it in blue shrink wrap. Use the Arduino based cell welder, it seems to be the most effective for the money. https://malectrics.eu/product/diy-arduino-battery-spot-welder-prebuilt-kit-v3/ compared to the cheaper chinese battery welders.

 

[niklas_j69]

I've had my TSDZ2 for about a month now and done only 40 miles. I just noticed that there is a lot of side to side play in the cranks. I've seen a couple of posts saying that some on here have added shims to the crank beatings. Can anyone advise what shim size I need I.e OD and ID. Also I'm thinking about replacing the bearings while I'm there. What size are they ?

Or is it worthwhile contacting PSPOWER for a replacement unit ?

Edit: The play in the bearing is is up and down play, not the crank axle sliding left to right.

Have the same issue with my 48v system....anyone have any advice? Also have a 52v system from Re-cycle, doesn't have that issue, both on same, low milage, different bearings?

 

[John and Cecil]

I thought Europe was limited to 250watt motors??? You might want to slap a 250w sticker on that motor :lol:

Since you're leaving for europe soon, you can just buy a bunch of used laptop batteries, pull the cells and make a pack and wrap it in blue shrink wrap. Use the Arduino based cell welder, it seems to be the most effective for the money. https://malectrics.eu/product/diy-arduino-battery-spot-welder-prebuilt-kit-v3/ compared to the cheaper chinese battery welders.

250w - lol If it wasn't for carrying the dog and all the hills in Italy I would have been ok with one. The motor I bought does not have a sticker on it with the power rating, perhaps it was covered up by the seller (pswpower). I only wanted the extra power to get up hills with the dog. He does not know how good he has it, he should be pulling me up the hills!

I think these power tool batteries can be cheap if you get lucky, and they supposedly have high discharge (20amp+) cells. My battery came out to under $29 with 14 cells and it was new, although I think it was a fluke that I was able to get it that cheap. But if I build a battery I would prefer to use battery holders with spring terminals (if possible) and not weld the batteries. Once you weld them they can no longer be shipped or taken on a plane

I did find a way to discharge the battery this morning, I am able to hook it up to my electric drill Fingers crossed!
Edit - At 56.5v the motor was kicking a little more often, at 55.9v it appears to be working properly. I guess the magic number is somewhere around 56v. I am glad I started with a small battery, now I know 14 cell batteries aren't going to work unless they are under charged. Thanks everyone!

 

[John and Cecil]

Cecil and I did a test run. We rode about 15 minutes mostly on turbo and with the throttle and we went at least 3-4 miles and the motor still has power but I wanted to stop and check the voltage (plus I am winded). It is still showing 51.2v. The 750w motor does not have much power, in our lowest gear (42f, 34r, 27.5 tires) it can only go up maybe 2% grades without pedaling. I do like the assist mode, especially turbo, and it transitions smoothly and even gear changes are smooth. I think maybe the battery is not putting out enough amps?

 

[gggplaya]

The SRAM NX 1x11 rear derailleur with the rear cassette is not terribly expensive. The cassette also fits on a standard 8-9 speed rear shimano compatible hub. You can get up to a 42 tooth to give you a 1.0 ratio. Or you could get the SunRace 50t wide ratio cassette to get you a 0.84 ratio. Though with the chainline of the TSDZ2, i'm not sure how well it'll work.

 

[John and Cecil]

The SRAM NX 1x11 rear derailleur with the rear cassette is not terribly expensive. The cassette also fits on a standard 8-9 speed rear shimano compatible hub. You can get up to a 42 tooth to give you a 1.0 ratio. Or you could get the SunRace 50t wide ratio cassette to get you a 0.84 ratio. Though with the chainline of the TSDZ2, i'm not sure how well it'll work.

Yes, I would like to upgrade the gearing in the future, I have an 8 speed . The chain line is ok, I would say it lines up with the 3rd fastest gear perfectly. Low gear is probably the worst off line but I would say it is acceptable. I think a custom 6 or 7 spd would be nice with 11-42 gearing.

I don't think the motor is getting full power, or maybe they sent me a 500w motor instead. The 2ah battery seems to be lasting way too long and the power I feel does not feel like it is anywhere near 1hp.

 

[Marin]

With an under charged and teeny weeny battery you can’t expect much performance from that setup.

 

[gggplaya]

The SRAM NX 1x11 rear derailleur with the rear cassette is not terribly expensive. The cassette also fits on a standard 8-9 speed rear shimano compatible hub. You can get up to a 42 tooth to give you a 1.0 ratio. Or you could get the SunRace 50t wide ratio cassette to get you a 0.84 ratio. Though with the chainline of the TSDZ2, i'm not sure how well it'll work.

Yes, I would like to upgrade the gearing in the future, I have an 8 speed . The chain line is ok, I would say it lines up with the 3rd fastest gear perfectly. Low gear is probably the worst off line but I would say it is acceptable. I think a custom 6 or 7 spd would be nice with 11-42 gearing.

I don't think the motor is getting full power, or maybe they sent me a 500w motor instead. The 2ah battery seems to be lasting way too long and the power I feel does not feel like it is anywhere near 1hp.

If the EGO 56v 2AH battery is just 15 18650 batteries in series, then the continuous discharge current is more like just over 2amps. At 2amps at 56v, it's more like 100watts of output. Which is probably the amount of power you're seeing and the reason the battery lasts so long.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Guys, read through the 60 odd pages of this thread and most of your answers will be there. The 750W 48 Volt units will not work above 54.6 volts even though the display seems to work fine.

Surprise Surprise this is a torque sensitive unit, if you put a minimum effort on the peddles then the motor is only going to match your minimum effort, unlike the Bafung units, which as long as you turn the peddles, it will put X amount of power in.

 

[John and Cecil]

I guess If I charge the battery to 56v and then ride on steady full throttle until the battery reaches 44v or so I should be able to calculate the amp power of my micro battery That makes the most sense, maybe they are only 5 amp cells and im only getting about 250w of max power. At least I know the motor works and I can work on getting it road worthy, and I can get my old man out of shape body road worthy too!

ps - My motor has a throttle so I get maximum power without any pedaling if i choose. Also my motor works at anything below 56v.

 

[Marin]

I guess If I charge the battery to 56v and then ride on steady full throttle until the battery reaches 44v or so I should be able to calculate the amp power of my micro battery That makes the most sense, maybe they are only 5 amp cells and im only getting about 250w of max power. At least I know the motor works and I can work on getting it road worthy, and I can get my old man out of shape body road worthy too!

ps - My motor has a throttle so I get maximum power without any pedaling if i choose. Also my motor works at anything below 56v.

I have one of these 48v motor running on a partially charged 54 v,14s battery @ 10ah

It’s a fun ride and good for 15 to 25 kms depending how you ride in my area.

Keep off throttle as much as possible to avoid issues, always start in low gear to avoid issues.

Once you are moved and have a good setup you will like it, but need to peddle.

 

[hobbyvac]

I've been loving my tsdz2 mtb conversion so far. The second speed level is perfect for trail riding and I sometimes use the third level on pavement. I have no interest in higher speeds or more boost. I watch videos and most people just don't get the proper use of gearing. I see way too many people starting off in higher gears complaining that its sluggish.

Mine is very quiet and has only a small amount of drag with power off. A couple small issues though, there is up and down play on the main shaft, I don't know if its play between the bearings and shaft, or sloppy china bearings. I wish someone would post a bearing part numbers list so I can order spares. The right side shaft seal is a joke and Im interested in upgrading to the black cover with better seal. I have to run with the speed sensor disconnected and no speedo function. With the sensor, the drive cuts in and out at about 2 second intervals. It does the same on-off surging even in the 6km walk mode. Unplug the speed sensor and it works perfect????? Is it possible to have the spoke magnet too close,... and how far is too far. I got absolutely no instructions with my kit.

Who sells spare parts for these in the US? I found a brass gear on ebay but would like to swap the VLCD display for the smaller XH18 and get an upgraded right side seal cover.

 

[gggplaya]

I've been loving my tsdz2 mtb conversion so far. The second speed level is perfect for trail riding and I sometimes use the third level on pavement. I have no interest in higher speeds or more boost. I watch videos and most people just don't get the proper use of gearing. I see way too many people starting off in higher gears complaining that its sluggish.

Mine is very quiet and has only a small amount of drag with power off. A couple small issues though, there is up and down play on the main shaft, I don't know if its play between the bearings and shaft, or sloppy china bearings. I wish someone would post a bearing part numbers list so I can order spares. The right side shaft seal is a joke and Im interested in upgrading to the black cover with better seal. I have to run with the speed sensor disconnected and no speedo function. With the sensor, the drive cuts in and out at about 2 second intervals. It does the same on-off surging even in the 6km walk mode. Unplug the speed sensor and it works perfect????? Is it possible to have the spoke magnet too close,... and how far is too far. I got absolutely no instructions with my kit.

Who sells spare parts for these in the US? I found a brass gear on ebay but would like to swap the VLCD display for the smaller XH18 and get an upgraded right side seal cover.

Recycles ebike (http://recycles-ebike.com/) sells parts, but even he drop ships some of it. Biketrix also sells TSDZ2 but I'm also not sure if they stock any of it as well. But at least recycles ebike is on this forum if you have questions and he responds to emails.

 

[John and Cecil]

I've been loving my tsdz2 mtb conversion so far. The second speed level is perfect for trail riding and I sometimes use the third level on pavement. I have no interest in higher speeds or more boost. I watch videos and most people just don't get the proper use of gearing. I see way too many people starting off in higher gears complaining that its sluggish.

Mine is very quiet and has only a small amount of drag with power off. A couple small issues though, there is up and down play on the main shaft, I don't know if its play between the bearings and shaft, or sloppy china bearings. I wish someone would post a bearing part numbers list so I can order spares. The right side shaft seal is a joke and Im interested in upgrading to the black cover with better seal. I have to run with the speed sensor disconnected and no speedo function. With the sensor, the drive cuts in and out at about 2 second intervals. It does the same on-off surging even in the 6km walk mode. Unplug the speed sensor and it works perfect????? Is it possible to have the spoke magnet too close,... and how far is too far. I got absolutely no instructions with my kit.

Who sells spare parts for these in the US? I found a brass gear on ebay but would like to swap the VLCD display for the smaller XH18 and get an upgraded right side seal cover.

When I received my motor there were no instructions either, not even a list of parts. I found a manual that can be downloaded here, along with some other manuals:

http://www.cnebikes.com/download.html

The manual states 5mm magnet to sensor. I originally had mine at about 7/8" which was the closest that I could get it but it would not work at all at that distance. I then extended my sensor and now there is about 1/2" between them and it works fine now.

 

[John and Cecil]

I have a question about hill climbing speeds. I would like to know about what speed (if it is even possible) a 750w motor can climb an approximately 8% paved grade (aprox 40' elevation change in approximately 500' distance)with a total load (bike, rider, and gear) of about 250 lbs. Has anyone climbed a hill such as this with their 750w motor on throttle only? I am trying to figure out gearing, my 11-32 rear with 42 front is perfect for cruising speeds but appears to be severely lacking in hill climbing abilities, especially with pudgy little Cecil on the back! Thanks

 

[amberwolf]

I'm not sure how well it would climb that, if you have to do ti from a stop at the bottom (vs a runup to it at normal speed), but you can use simulators like http://ebikes.ca/simulator to see how well a similar powered hubmotor would do it.

This simulation with a geared hubmotor shows no overheat of the mtoro in that time as long as you stay above a few MPH, and less heating the faster you go up it.
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?bopen=false&grade=8&motor=MEZEE250&cont=cust_8_40_0.03_V&axis=mph

Since yours goes thru the gears, then if your lowest gear isn't low enough, you could either see about adding a second (smaller) chainring up front or change the largest ring out in back to something bigger. (or change the whole cassette or freewheel out).


And just be thankful you don't have 270lbs of dog to move up that hill (I'm really glad it's nearly flat around here!).