Programming the Bafang Middrive BBS01+BBS02

[jpo]

Ok I found Keplers setting and initial test ride is quiet nice.
Thank you for sharing.
One noticeable negative that I experienced was the "run on" after I stop peddling. This seemed to increase with the new setting.

Is this controlled by the "time to stop" on the peddle assist page?
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Joe

 

[0utrider]

Bunch of dinosaurs :lol: Seriously Windows 8.1 has a heap of features over windows 7. Just the fact that it boots in under 30 seconds is a bigger enough incentive to use 8.1. I agree that it can be problematic with trying to find drivers for various diagnostics cables though.

We had lots of resistance within our office (which is full of programmers and power users) Everyone hated Windows 8. However 8.1 made a massive difference and now most are onboard. It works especially well if your have a laptop with a touch screen. I use the top spec Lenovo X1 Carbon which is a joy to use on 8.1.

Get with the times boys

Ahh, get with the times..... That means going to Linux!!!!! Dump Windoze!!

Shanman3us

Have you tried the programming tool with Wine in Linux?

 

[Tom L]

FYI: http://hackaday.com/2014/10/22/watch-that-windows-update-ftdi-drivers-are-killing-fake-chips/

 

[jpo]

Hi all
I programmed a couple bikes using the settings from kepler and I am quite pleased. On one of the bikes I adjusted the programming on the Time of stop (x10ms) was set to 10. Kepler and others are setting this to 25. I set one at 5 one at 10 and the final at 25. The 5 had far better throttle response than the other two. Is there any risk of damage setting this so low.
thanks
Joe

 

[Kepler]

Hi jpo,

Time to stop should in theory only affect how quickly the drive stops after you stop pedaling. That being said, it may have a global effect on the throttle also and as such may effect the throttle response. I don't think setting this to 5 will be would cause a problem, just be careful you don't end up with settings that allow the the drive to stop then quickly start back up again. This could spike current a possibly hurt the drive. For smooth throttle response, setting the throttle from speed to current mode has the most profound effect in my opinion.

BTW, I did see your PM but presumed you had found what you were looking for.

 

[morinr]

I am just having a brain fart and cant for the life of me find in the thread the actual steps/what to connect.

I just want to confirm before I fry anything.

1. software installed make cable - I have the peices
2. turn off batery unplug display, plug in to the motor/controller to the the adapter then to laptop
3. turn on battery? Then open the settings
4. make changes I want, save changes,
5. close software, turn off battery
6. unplug unit from computer, plug back into display?
7. ENJOY

Thanks,

 

[Kepler]

1. Software installed make cable
2. Turn off battery and unplug the display
3. plug in programming cable from laptop to the controller plug (normally to the display)
4. Open program and set the COM port to match your laptop. (Check USB TTL assigned COM port in device manager)
5. Turn on battery then click on the "connect" button. If all is OK you will see the controller info come up
6. Do not touch the "Read Flash" or "Write Flash" buttons
7. In the first tab (Basic), click the "read" button to down load your controller's settings.
8. Make the changes you want then click the "write" button to upload back to the controller.
9. Repeat for the "Pedal Assist" tab and the "Throttle Handle" tab
10. close software and turn off the battery
11. Unplug unit from computer, plug back into display
12. ENJOY

Hope that helps,

 

[teslanv]

I addition to Kepler's comments, I would suggest taking a screen shot of your settings immediately after clicking the "Read" button. Do this for each Tab in the program and keep them in a safe place for reference. Someday you may want to look back at what was programmed originally.

 

[Tom L]

And/or saving the settings to file from the menu.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Time to stop should in theory only affect how quickly the drive stops after you stop pedaling. That being said, it may have a global effect on the throttle also and as such may effect the throttle response. I don't think setting this to 5 will be would cause a problem, just be careful you don't end up with settings that allow the the drive to stop then quickly start back up again.

I found when I set it to 0 the motor didn't run at all on pedal assist but didn't test other low numbers. I'm guessing this time is how long it should wait for a cadence pulse before deciding that pedaling has ceased. Does anyone know this to be wrong? Assuming the model to be correct. There are 24 cadence pulses per pedal revolution so a setting of 5, corresponding to 50 milliseconds, will cause the motor to shut down at cadences of lower than 50 rpm. This cadence seems a little too high to me but maybe it would be a good way of protecting the motor from excessive phase current at low cadences. 50 rpm is probably high enough to avoid excessive phase currents. 25 would correspond to a minimum cadence of 10 rpm and 1/4 of a second before shut down.

The 5 had far better throttle response than the other two. Is there any risk of damage setting this so low.

This is interesting. I'd formed the view that pedal assist settings had no effect on throttle behaviour. I formed this view because power at WOT corresponds to the percentage Limit Current (%) on the Basic tab and was unchanged by changes in Current Decay and Keep Current (%) even though they change pedal assist power.

 

[Whitehawk]

Hi all,

I received and installed a bbs02 750w, now I need to have a look to the prog, I have the usb-ttl and software, but my plug is not 5 or 6 pin but 8 pin..
I don't find any info about how to plug the ttl to a 8 pin bbs02 controller plug, so someone have the info here ?

Thanks!

 

[Ken Taylor]

Hi all,

I received and installed a bbs02 750w, now I need to have a look to the prog, I have the usb-ttl and software, but my plug is not 5 or 6 pin but 8 pin..
I don't find any info about how to plug the ttl to a 8 pin bbs02 controller plug, so someone have the info here ?

Thanks!

Could you be referring to the plug on the motor? Programming is usually done from the plug on the cable that connects to this one at the connection to the display.

 

[Whitehawk]

Oh yeah ...

Ok so for 5 pin it's that :

But for the 6 pin ? what difference ? same way to plug or no? Thanks !

 

[snowranger]

I found when I set it to 0 the motor didn't run at all on pedal assist but didn't test other low numbers. I'm guessing this time is how long it should wait for a cadence pulse before deciding that pedaling has ceased. Does anyone know this to be wrong? Assuming the model to be correct. There are 24 cadence pulses per pedal revolution so a setting of 5, corresponding to 50 milliseconds, will cause the motor to shut down at cadences of lower than 50 rpm. This cadence seems a little too high to me but maybe it would be a good way of protecting the motor from excessive phase current at low cadences. 50 rpm is probably high enough to avoid excessive phase currents. 25 would correspond to a minimum cadence of 10 rpm and 1/4 of a second before shut down.

I found that at 10, my PAS would not work as well. As far as the throttle response, I think that throttle current mode and start current make the most difference.

 

[Ken Taylor]

I found that at 10, my PAS would not work as well.

That would correspond to a minimum cadence of 25 rpm if the model is right. I'll check this at some stage.

As far as the throttle response, I think that throttle current mode and start current make the most difference.

Yes.

 

[jpo]

Hi All
I have an older BBS01 36 volt 350 watt bafang that I would like to adjust the programming on.
This unit uses the older style plugs (not the new green one). Because I already have a programming cable with the new green end for my other bike I thought I could wire the other end of the green plug in parallel to the wire going between the consul and controller to make the programming adjustments. The assumption was that wiring and the wire color would be the same.
Well you know what happens when one assumes.
I carefully stripped back the wire housing and discovered 6 wires (not 5 like the new plug has) green, red, yellow, grey, black and finally a rusty brown. I know i should have noticed the plug had 6 pins but I did not.
So the question is does anyone know how to wire this to ttl converter for reprogramming? Can it be done with 5 wires? Can I wire my five 5 plug in parallel?
thanks

 

[astmacca]

Hi all. Have been playing with the programming again and took it for a ride this arvo. Setting different values for the cadence (speed% on Basic Page) as i went up PAS levels was ok, but i figured to do better.

Current programming below:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkcn2xfp378oce3/Ebike%20PASCadenceSpeed.xlsx?dl=0

Works very nicely for me i think. Targeting that road-speed in 5th is comfortable cadence for me and i found i that with the assist on 2 and the mid range gear it was easy to keep the cadence up on minor slope changes.

If i want a higher road-speed i knock it up a couple of clicks on the rear deralier and pedal harder. If i want more assist into a headwind (my biggest problem ) then i knock it up a PAS level or two and the cadence / cuttoff doesn't change.

And i make sure i am in 4th or lower for starting off.

I seem to actually be coming back more towards the settings Kepler posted earlier in the thread. Apart from the settings on the basic page the only other change from Kepler's is that i use a slightly lower start current because i am paranoid and an individual!!!! .

Less than 100% speed% on the basic page suits my riding style and purpose better i think. I need to pedal for the exercise or i turn into a blob. And if i need the speed there is always the throttle or PAS level 9.

I actually found with these settings that on my "standard" loop ride of 26km today i was quite happy with PAS level 2 (20% current) almost the whole ride, rather than the PAS level 3 (30% current) that has been my normal setting for the last couple of weeks. And i was pushing the pedals pretty consistently. Actually did a lot of the return leg (downwind and flat along the beach) with no PAS at all just to check for any drag. No probs at all. Done about 530km on it now in 4 weeks. Love it.

 

[Tom L]

Hi All
I have an older BBS01 36 volt 350 watt bafang that I would like to adjust the programming on.
This unit uses the older style plugs (not the new green one). Because I already have a programming cable with the new green end for my other bike I thought I could wire the other end of the green plug in parallel to the wire going between the consul and controller to make the programming adjustments. The assumption was that wiring and the wire color would be the same.
Well you know what happens when one assumes.
I carefully stripped back the wire housing and discovered 6 wires (not 5 like the new plug has) green, red, yellow, grey, black and finally a rusty brown. I know i should have noticed the plug had 6 pins but I did not.
So the question is does anyone know how to wire this to ttl converter for reprogramming? Can it be done with 5 wires? Can I wire my five 5 plug in parallel?
thanks

Does it still work?

You will have to open your display and check where the wires go. Take a photo and post it here if unsure.

 

[0utrider]

Hi all. Have been playing with the programming again and took it for a ride this arvo. Setting different values for the cadence (speed% on Basic Page) as i went up PAS levels was ok, but i figured to do better.

Current programming below:

Nice! Sounds like a good starting point for me as well. I'll give em a try when I get to programming.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Works very nicely for me i think. Targeting that road-speed in 5th is comfortable cadence for me and i found i that with the assist on 2 and the mid range gear it was easy to keep the cadence up on minor slope changes.

If i want a higher road-speed i knock it up a couple of clicks on the rear deralier and pedal harder. If i want more assist into a headwind (my biggest problem ) then i knock it up a PAS level or two and the cadence / cuttoff doesn't change.
.
.
.
Less than 100% speed% on the basic page suits my riding style and purpose better i think. I need to pedal for the exercise or i turn into a blob. And if i need the speed there is always the throttle or PAS level 9.

You provide some reasoning on how cadence cut offs may not be disadvantageous but I'm wondering what is gained by limiting cadence. Your setting of 75 is a low maximum cadence, it is around an average for most people which means most people will spend a lot of time above that. Higher cadence is usually associated with higher rider power and if you are after exercise you would want that. So maybe you want assist to go away when you work hard but I find that psychologically difficult. When I know that working harder will cut the help I find it mentally hard to do and tend to change up.

Cutting assist at high speed does much to increase range but what is gained by setting a maximum cadence for assist?

 

[astmacca]

You provide some reasoning on how cadence cut offs may not be disadvantageous but I'm wondering what is gained by limiting cadence.

Ken, what i am trying to do is target a road speed where below that speed assist is working, and above that speed its me pushing.

Since the Speed% on settings is actually a % of cadence not the directly measured roadspeed that works for a particular gear only. I've picked 5 as its mid range.

Your setting of 75 is a low maximum cadence, it is around an average for most people which means most people will spend a lot of time above that.

Seems to work for me. I am finding it comfortable spending most of my time on PAS2 (20% assist) up and down hills and just working the gears as i feel like it. Yup, there are times when i'm pushing and my cadence obviously slows and i feel the assist come back in. I may just keep pushing and if the speed picks up the assist drops out again, or i may take it as a cue to drop into a lower gear. Depends how i'm feeling and the terrain. There is probably as much my riding style adapting to the programming as the programming adapting to my riding style.

When I know that working harder will cut the help I find it mentally hard to do and tend to change up.

I guess what i am trying for is to be able to mostly forget the assist parameter as i am riding and just ride it like a bike.

OK, nice having the throttle for that short run up the last bit of the hill into a headwind. And certainly pushing into a consistent headwind for any length of time using PAS3 or higher is a goer.

Have i mentioned i hate headwinds?

Cutting assist at high speed does much to increase range

I think so too, not that range has been an issue for me so far. Want to do the 40+ km around the bridges ride here soon though. Suspect i will get that easily provided the wind isnt howling. Need a watt meter once SWMBO lets me buy things again.

but what is gained by setting a maximum cadence for assist?

I've come around to the idea that setting a DIFFERENT Speed% (maximum cadence) for the different PAS levels is probably pointless.

Much more comfy and more intuitive when riding ( for me anyway ) to have PAS Current% all that changes with PAS level, and use the gears pretty much as i would normally riding a non electric bike. Since i changed the programming this weekend i am actually overall a bit slower over the same circuit and feel like i am getting more of a workout subjective though that is. Maybe a function of using mainly 20% assist and not the 30-40% i had been using??

I probably wont go to 100% Speed% on anything other than PAS0 and PAS9, but i can understand where someone who had multiple bikes for different purposes (fitness, commute, off-road) or who was particularly focused on a longer commute than mine would find that appropriate.

One thing i do like about this kit is the 9 PAS levels available. Could easy set 1-4 for a riding "mode" and 5-8 for a different one.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Thanks for the response.

You provide some reasoning on how cadence cut offs may not be disadvantageous but I'm wondering what is gained by limiting cadence.

Ken, what i am trying to do is target a road speed where below that speed assist is working, and above that speed its me pushing.

If that is your goal, use the Speed Limited box on the Pedal Assist tab. This is road speed where Limit Spd(%) on the Basic tab is cadence. I was fooled by that but was put right by pjgold.

Since the Speed% on settings is actually a % of cadence not the directly measured roadspeed that works for a particular gear only. I've picked 5 as its mid range.

Yes, but it sounds like you would prefer road speed and are using cadence as a proxy. Better to use road speed directly.

I guess what i am trying for is to be able to mostly forget the assist parameter as i am riding and just ride it like a bike.

Yes that is my goal as well but I've recently formed the view there are some fundamental differences.

Within limits a person can produce the same amount of power, hour after hour. So if humans travel longer they provide more energy. A battery provides a fixed amount of energy so, if range is an issue, you have to think about the most efficient way to use it. You minimise trip time by either using the motor to help you get on someones wheel so you can draft off them or when you are travelling slowest, i.e up hills. This minimises energy lost to pushing through the air which increases with the cube of speed or per kilometre traveled, the square of speed. That means you whizz past everyone else up hills, which creates resentment, but get passed a lot on the flats which brings joy to those who you passed on the hills. In my experience if you plan it wrong, run out out of battery and have to struggle slowly up a climb you are likely to be mocked by the stronger riders, you previously crushed, as they pass.

I still can't think of any advantage in restricting cadence. Any more suggestions?

 

[jpo]

Hi All
I have an older BBS01 36 volt 350 watt bafang that I would like to adjust the programming on.
This unit uses the older style plugs (not the new green one). Because I already have a programming cable with the new green end for my other bike I thought I could wire the other end of the green plug in parallel to the wire going between the consul and controller to make the programming adjustments. The assumption was that wiring and the wire color would be the same.
Well you know what happens when one assumes.
I carefully stripped back the wire housing and discovered 6 wires (not 5 like the new plug has) green, red, yellow, grey, black and finally a rusty brown. I know i should have noticed the plug had 6 pins but I did not.
So the question is does anyone know how to wire this to ttl converter for reprogramming? Can it be done with 5 wires? Can I wire my five 5 plug in parallel?
thanks

Does it still work?

You will have to open your display and check where the wires go. Take a photo and post it here if unsure.

Haha. Yes still working.
I did discover that the red wire does not go anywhere. So really there are 5 wires between the consul and controller just like the newer bbso2.
ben--b has great pictures of his tap directly into the consul.
I may go this route, but don't know how to crack it open.
Any idea how to open the consul.

 

[astmacca]

If that is your goal, use the Speed Limited box on the Pedal Assist tab. This is road speed where Limit Spd(%) on the Basic tab is cadence. I was fooled by that but was put right by pjgold.

Ah, I thought that would limit the overall speed when i am using the throttle as well. I have that one set to "By Displays Command" and use 40km / hr. Which sounds very Cylon come to think of it??

And looking at it now i may well have been wrong since the throttle page has an independent setting for that. Will thunk on it.

As far as limiting cadence. My reasoning is that if on a particular ride or section of a ride, if i can get to and comfortably maintain a cadence higher than the point where the assist cuts out, then i dont need the motor running and drawing amps. Better for me exercise wise and better for overall range.

And while i am targeting a particular road speed the more i do this the more i am realising that cadence at whatever road speed is big factor in the comfort of the ride.

I think i have expressed myself poorly in some previous posts. But this type of conversation is a fun way of testing and refining goals.

The perspective i'm approaching this from is targeting a road speed, but at the middle of the gear range where everything works easily on the flat. Then using the gears for flexibility around that target.

If i use the Speed Limited box on the Pedal Assist tab to target a road-speed (which i agree should work, say 28km/hr ) then that's the road speed it will cut out at regardless of the gear i am in.

However, if i limit assist by cadence, the actual road speed where the assist cuts out will vary from gear to gear.

In a situation where i am using a low gear i may want assist but i dont really want the motor trying to push me up to 28km/hr.

In a situation where i am using a high gear i may want assist to a higher speed than 28km / hr get me up to speed faster.

all the while, still not wanting the assist on 100% of the time.

So, i think that limiting the assist by cadence may give more flexibility on the ride than a straight road speed limit.

This minimises energy lost to pushing through the air which increases with the cube of speed

Lol! I live in Fremantle W.A. Pushing through the air is the hardest bit about a bike ride when the sea breeze comes in at 15-20 knots.

but get passed a lot on the flats which brings joy to those who you passed on the hills.

Good to bring some joy to others though. Even if its transient before one hits the throttle.

 

[Ken Taylor]

As far as limiting cadence. My reasoning is that if on a particular ride or section of a ride, if i can get to and comfortably maintain a cadence higher than the point where the assist cuts out, then i dont need the motor running and drawing amps. Better for me exercise wise and better for overall range.

If you are running near your maximum cadence for assist, 75 rpm in your case, and putting out 180 Watts of human power and adding 100 W at the wheel of assist, which are realistic numbers, then you try to up your human power by 20 watts by increasing cadence it's not enough to overcome the loss of assist. Whatever extra power you produce reduces motor power up until you can produce more than 100 watts. So you feel the speed increase as you increase power up until your cadence limit then get no reward for the extra effort until you can increase your output by more than 100 watts. This is good for economy but it feels like pushing against a wall, you work harder and don't see any benefit and I think it is hard psychologically to maintain the extra effort without the reward. Generally assist is most desired when the rider is already trying hard but can't produce enough power, which usually means, at a higher cadence. In my case I'll change up when I hit the cadence wall but now I'm riding at an unnaturally low cadence. In practice it is not as obvious as described because speed changes marginally up and down all the time as grade, wind, etc changes but I do notice that feeling of bumping up against a wall. This is my major complaint with the BBS01 which causes assist to drop away at the higher end of the natural cadence range due to motor characteristics. It forces the use of lower gears than would otherwise be selected.

It's interesting to get your perspective. Whether the economy benefit you suggest is achieved comes down to how hitting the cadence wall affects rider behaviour. An assist speed limit produces a wall too but it doesn't encourage you to use unnatural cadences and you maximise economy by only using assist at low speeds.