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Q100C CST noise, then cuts out under load

S

Scootourist

1 mW
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
10
Hello,

I'm new to the forum, and e bikes. I picked up this kit from BMSBattery:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/61...ole+Kit+-+Display+:+LCD1,+RPM+:+201&results=1

In nutshell it's the S06P controller, a 36v10ah LiOn bottle battery and a Q100C CST.

I got it all together this weekend, and it works just fine with no load. When I'm on the bike it won't accelerate. If I pedal to get it going, then use the throttle, the motor will start to move me along, and then a few seconds later it will make a noise and then the motor will cut out. It's kind of a rubbing sound. It sounds a little like that noise you get from old hard caliper brakes when you are braking. Then there is a spinning sound. Here's what I've done so far to try to get past this issue:

-Fully charged the battery and checked to see if it have the correct voltage reading
-un-hooked the brake shut off cable
-tested the throttle - the voltage was OK, the signal was a little low? .9v closed to 3.5v wide open

None of these made difference. Any suggestions on what to check next?

Thanks
 
You have to set the P1 parameter in the LCD. You could try 16 magnets and 14:2 reduction ratio because that's what numbers BMSB give, but I'm not convinced by that reduction ratio. That would give 112 for P1. What rpm is your motor?

Also, you should check the obvious, like phase wire connections not tight enough.
 
Thanks for the reply. It's a 201 RPM motor on a 700c wheel. The P1 setting was set to 224, so I set it to 112. I checked the connections and they seem snug. I took it for a test ride and I'm still getting the same behavior.
 
By connections, I think Dave is refering to the tiny pins inside the white nylon blocks.
If not perfectly installed, they tend to back out when the block halves are pushed together.
 
Motomech. That P1 setting 224 means a reduction ratio of 14:1. It must have been set by BMSB. From memory, the original 201 rpm Q100 was 8:1. Can you remind us what the actual reduction ratios were in your motors?

Scootourist, just to eliminate it as being the cause, try P1 at 128.

If that doesn't do it, it means you have a problem with the hall sensors. Others that experienced the same problem as you, eventually traced the problem to a faulty hall connection somewhere, so have a close look at the connector at the controller. The other ommon problem, which I should have pointed out earlier, is the motor connector by the motor not pushed in far enough. There's a guide-line that shows how far the edge of the outer one must go.
 
I counted the gears on my lastest 201 CST as;
8(Sun)/39
23/74

And my sketchy math gave me a red. ratio of 15.7 : 1.
 
I tried a P1 value of 128, with no change. According to BMSB, the reduction ratio is 14.2, and # of alnico is 16. I checked the motor connector and it's all the way in--I had to pull it out slightly to see the line.

I found some instructions on ebikes.ca that detailed how to test the hall sensors. I'll do that and report back.
 
The phase wires are solidly connected, and I get continuity from one end of the connection to the other. The phase wires are the only connections to the motor. Are there any tests I can do on them?

I'm wondering if this is maybe a mechanical issue? Stuck roller, so the clutch isn't staying engaged?

Thanks again for helping me troubleshoot this.
 
There should be two groups of connectors to the motor.
The 3 bullet connector for phase and the white nylon block which contains the {5}Hall connectors(which are the ones I meant).

So you have inspected all 8 connections?
 
There are 6 additional wires (beyond the 3 phase wires) they are not connected to anything. Here's the link to the wiring for the controller that came with the kit (S06P):

https://bmsbattery.com/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=20

The controller doesn't appear to have a connection for any wires off the motor other than the phase wires.

Did BMS battery sell me a kit with a controller that isn't sufficient for the motor?
 
Ok, take a breath :lol:
BMS Battery recently revised their site and appearently, they left half of the controller connector down-load off.
There is another page that shows the Hall connector.
In your little bag a parts, there should be a large white connector with tiny gold pins.
They crimp on the hall wires, which are the same colors as the LCD meter, that is;
Red
Yellow
Grn. Blu.
black
and white.
They match color to color to the wires on the motor lead.
Make sure the pins "snap-in" the connector so they don't back out.

EDIT;
I see you have internal controller and my experience(and instructions) are for external controller.
But this pic. shows the lg. wht. connector for hall;
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/668-36v-s06s-sine-wave-integrated-controller-for-new-bottle-case-ebike-kit.html
 
The bottle battery S06P doesn't have a hall connector. Sorry, I didn't realise that's what you had. If you can't find a P1 that works, you're out. I had the same setup and my Q100c kept losing sync under load. I then swapped it for a Q75 which was also very rough under load, but it was OK after I set P1 to 144 (which was a wild guess as I didn't have the correct info to hand).
 
Motomech, are you running the Q100c successfully? If so, what controller are you using?

D8veh, do you have any insight as to what the P1 setting controls? The document I have is cryptic, and only says something like "motor character".
 
d8veh,

Is he having a Controller Problem ? or a Display Program Problem ? or a PAS problem ? or wires ?

What is a P1 ? Would anyone not using a PAS, and just using a throttle have the same problems with the Q100 cst ?
( I got from them ( bms battery ) a pas that can not be modified to fit like you have/did, and ordering the one you have would be $ 35 for the shipping, so I will be only using a throttle.
Thanks

d8veh said:
The bottle battery S06P doesn't have a hall connector. Sorry, I didn't realise that's what you had. If you can't find a P1 that works, you're out. I had the same setup and my Q100c kept losing sync under load. I then swapped it for a Q75 which was also very rough under load, but it was OK after I set P1 to 144 (which was a wild guess as I didn't have the correct info to hand).
Click to expand...
 
I haven't had time to research this completely, but it appears to me that, unbelievably, BMS Battery is selling a complete kit that doesn't work.
D8veh has been warning that the SO6P torque imitation controller, more often than not will not work with the smaller Q-series motors.
The OP needs to contact Jack Xie and let them know.
I believe this is a new kit and this is the first time I have seen a report on it.
What BMS B. need to do is send the OP the SO6S controller free of charge.
If there is no positive response, let me know and I will contact Jack.
 
I
When Sinewave controllers were first released on the market, they had to be somehow matched to the motor. When I was trying to get samples, the vendors always asked what motor I wanted it for. Sometimes they said that they couldn't give me one for the motor I specified. I guess that P1 is the parameter that matches the controller to the motor, but, other han that, I've no idea why it's necessary.

The S06P is not a sinewave controller, so that makes P1 even more confusing. The only thing I can think of is that it helps the cpu with timing at start up.

One thing you could try if P1 doesn't sort it. It's just a hunch I have. Try connecting a sizeable capacitor, say 670mfd, across the battery wires. You'd need to take the controller off the battery to get access to the battery terminals. Make sure that the marked negative leg goes to the negative battery wire otherwise you'll get a big bang.
 
Yeah, but any customer who buys wqhat he thinks is a hassle-free kit shouldn't have to go though all that.

I found this from over Dave's way;
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/q100c-with-different-batteries-on-same-controller.21460/
 
That's right. I think the basic rule still applies: Don't use a sensorless controller with any of the Q-series motors.
 
Ok, it sounds like there is a consensus that the controller is likely the issue. What controller should I use with this motor?
 
I went back and forth over email troubleshooting this issue with BMS battery. About a week ago they stopped responding to my email. It was right after I asked them if any of the parts might need to be replaced.

At this point I've broken down and ordered a sine wave controller from them. Once I receive it, I'll update if that fixes the issue.
 
I got the sine wave controller yesterday and hooked everything up. It's working now!

It seems that the Q100C CST needs a sine wave controller, like D8veh suggested.

Thanks everyone for the troubleshooting help.
 
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