I mean to say that the no-load speed is around 25 mph.
Yes, for a 260 mini, a no-load of 25 mph is about right. A couple of mph is lost in the real world.
Motomech's comment about the H outpulling the C is exactly what I meant when asking about torque - given the same conditions, does the Q100H or the SWXH produce more force for the same input current? In effect, which is more efficient at converting winding current to torque? In the same way that the H produces more torque for the same current than the C,
Is this the same person posting? LOL Your first post reminded me of when I was a service manager at a Yamaha dealership and every Sat. morning I would get the same calls; "My YZ80 won't torque out, what should I do?"
You bring up questions that have been discussed here(quite a bit, actually), but rather than making you search, I will try a sum up the general conscientious .
When the H came out, we wondered why the H was more efficient than the standard Cute(the original Ananda name). I took one apart and looked and looked and couldn't see any difference. The stator looked the same and was the same width. We kind of took a default position that the magnets were stronger.
The first CST(Ananda) was a little weak. The stator on the C is about 30% more narrow than the stand./H to make room for the cassette, but when the Akima C came out, it didn't seem 30% less efficient than even the H, and I assume that the Akima C uses the same magnets as the H.
When we talk about max Amps on a mini, what is "safe" has a lot to do w/ how the controller ramps up. The KT and other genaric Chinese controllers are "soft-starters", where as the Infineons are hard-hitting. At one point, I was running a Lyen Mini-Monster 22 Amper(a real hot-rod controller) on 56 Volts on my MXUS and actually had it on a Q100H frt. mount for a while and the motor survived. If there was any hint of dampness on the tarmac, it would spin the tire like crazy. But at these power levels, the gears start to "growl:, surely a sign something bad is going to happen. During this time I played around w/ upping the Voltage and came to the conclusion that w/ mini's anyhow, above low to mid 50's, the Law of Diminishing Returns rears it's ugly head. The windings start to become saturated and to keep the overall Watts in a reasonable territory, one needs to start backing off the Amps. When the Volts are high and the Amps low, the power curve falls precipitously at, or worse, before the No-load rpm. This is the basic problem the 328 in a big whl. has. Around 2008 when the Cutes first came out, a member here (Mckeefer) tested one to destruction. As I recall, he was in the mid 60's Volts before the windings cooked.
So as I mentioned, under any reasonable usage, it's not the windings that are at risk, but the Nylon gears. I used to ride my 2WD off-road a lot and there were times, like climbing over logs, that I could feel the gears flexing. Subject a mini to enough heat/shocks and there is a real possibility the gears can break/mush-out(not likely on the street).
Again, as I mentioned, it's the phase wires and in particular the connectors that are the Achilles Heal w/ a mini system. In high-load, low rpm situations, the controller tries to feed the motor everything it's worth and the phase wires become the fusible link. I recommend everyone replace the cheap bullet connectors in the kit w/ quality units, or better yet, solder hard-points.
The graph for the Q100H seems to be for the 201 RPM version. Do they change the windings or the gearing for the different RPMs? If it's the gearing, I know for sure that I can just multiply the stated torque by the ratio. If it's the windings, then I'm not sure how to convert, since that's into theory too advanced for my knowledge.
There is still some debate, but I am of the option that the Cute windings, within a group, are the same and the speed ratings come about due the the ratios of the compound gears. This came about when I disassembled various speed range motors and counted the gear teeth. This was very tedious because there have been many gear ratio changes, even on the same speed-range motor. There seemed to be a direct correlation to ratios and speeds.
Like you say though, it probably doesn't make too much difference between the two motors, and other considerations are more important.
This is your most sensible statement yet. LOL I admire you trying to get your head around these little wonders, but there is no need to sweat the details. The top speeds of various Q100 combo's are well known. Q100H 260 on 48 Volts in a 26" whl. gives 23 mph give or take a mph.
I can't comment on round cells, as I am of the rare breed that uses LIPoly.
Why does a higher voltage make the motor climb better? I'd be interested in that benefit. Is it because the controller does not limit phase amps, and so the higher voltage introduces higher phase amps, or is it due to something else?
Ok, that's a fair question, that is closely related to the Universal Law of Climbing w/ (sm.) hub motors, that states;
Never let the climbing speed(or motor rpm) fall to below half of the no-load speed, for it is here where the motor starts to make more heat than locomotion. The astute mini rider will anticipate the motor will soon stall (to be avoided like the plague) and jump off and push before this happens. He will also hit the bottom of the hill w/ all the speed he/she can muster and keep the power on til the last second. This is where the extra Volts can help.
I would use the Q100H because,....well, it's Cute
