Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit

[Mammalian04]

Off-roader actually IS talking about modifying the head tube, not steer tube on the forks.

He means that Qulbix should make the head tube on the Raptor frame shorter so that the steering tube (of the USD-8) has more room on the bottom when the suspension is under full compression.

 

[marcn]

Cutting the steerer is quite simply, once you know how much to cut. You'll know how much to cut once you get your seating position and handlebars fitted. As offloader mentioned, the headtube of the Raptor is 150mm which is long! We only cut about 1.5cm off our Marzocchi's because the potentiometer was hitting.

You can buy a guide to make sure the cut is straight if you're worried. We cut ours while the bike was upright without a guide.

 

[sonnetg]

Thanks everyone. I am mostly interested in this frame because of the strong rear dropout, and a huge battery compartment option. But building a bike from ground up would be quite an experience.

The last build I did was to covert my MTB, and setting up the rear disk brake was a major pain with my ezee motor. Any recommendation on a DD motor and dropout size? I am planning on going with the cyrstalyte HS series motor and a single speed cog. I have never used regenerative brakes before, but if it works, it would be great because I wont have to deal with disk rotors in the rear. Do you all use regenerative brakes or have you also installed rear disk brakes, for "just in case"?


By the way, I found a very helpful video demonstrating how to install and properly setup a front fork. It doesn't seem too difficult, but hammering the star fangled nut could probably take some practice. I should be able to have this done at my LBS, but certainly would like to try it though.

[youtube]M4cdg_4Y9W0[/youtube]

 

[marcn]

No regen here, just disc brakes.

 

[sonnetg]

No regen here, just disc brakes.

Why not? Is it not powerful enough? or you simply dont trust it, which I would understand.

How difficult was it to setup the disk rotor? I presume you went with 165mm dropout option? Did everything fit right out of the box, or you had to play around with numerous spacers?

 

[marcn]

There are a number of people running regen, including variable regen. I choose not too, because I don't think it's worth it in terms of what you get back. We also get free disc pads as part of the sponsorship, so wearing down pads faster isn't really an issue either. Stopping power with regen can pull you up as fast as hitting a brick wall, it depends how you have it set in terms of amps going back to the controller>battery. If you're building an eBike over 40kg, getting brakes that can handle the weight in combination with pulling you up quickly from fast speeds can be a bit more expensive on their own, then having them used in combination with regen. This all depends on how you use the eBike though. If you're constantly pulling up from 50km/h, you'll notice fade much quicker on cheaper brakes then more expensive ones.

We went with 165mm dropouts, fit a Cromotor V3, as well as a 5 speed freewheel. Making it all fit was very tricky and took us some time having never built an eBike before. You can check out the build in the signature below.

 

[sonnetg]

Wow...5 speed with cromotor V3, along with disk rotors. That is quiet an accomplishment. These motors weigh nearly as much as the Raptor frame itself. I wonder whether bicycle disk rotors are even made to handle such weight. I am checking out your build link now. Thank you.

 

[marcn]

I wonder whether bicycle disk rotors are even made to handle such weight.

Funny you mention that. We actually posed the same question to Magura who were involved with our build. Whether it's for their own promotional reasons or not, once we told them the weight and speed of our build, they would only send the MT7's for us to install, along with e-brake switches. They mentioned their MT8's wouldn't dissipate the heat quick enough from abusive use. I'm not sure about that since Stealth and other high powered eBike builders have been using them for quite some time, even the MT4's. The MT7's are only slightly warm from multiple stop/start runs at 60km/h. They're quite incredible brakes.

 

[Offroader]

I waited a long time to hook up my regen but when I hooked up variable regen with the adaptto I actually like it. The reason I like it is because I was wearing away my rear brakes very fast. Now I stop mostly with regen and the rear brakes last forever now.

What I also like about regen is how easy it is to lock up the rear wheel by using both regen and rear brakes.

I also use a thumb throttle on my left handlebar so this allows me to keep a tight grip on the handlebar when needed while applying regen, no need to cover the brakes.

Isn't it pretty much accepted that the MXUS motors are much better alternative than the crystalyte?

 

[sonnetg]

I waited a long time to hook up my regen but when I hooked up variable regen with the adaptto I actually like it. The reason I like it is because I was wearing away my rear brakes very fast. Now I stop mostly with regen and the rear brakes last forever now.

What I also like about regen is how easy it is to lock up the rear wheel by using both regen and rear brakes.

I also use a thumb throttle on my left handlebar so this allows me to keep a tight grip on the handlebar when needed while applying regen, no need to cover the brakes.

Isn't it pretty much accepted that the MXUS motors are much better alternative than the crystalyte?

I have never used regen brakes, but sounds like a combination setup would be the way to go.

As for motors, I chose crystalyte HS mostly to keep the overall weight down, and also because ebikes.ca has the kit available including the controller and CA. The kit is guaranteed to work out of the box, and their support is excellent. Also, doesn't the Stealth bomber come with a Crystalyte HS series motor? As far as I am concerned, stealth ebikes are the top of the line in the ebike world.

There will always be something better and newer out there. I just want something with decent power, which can take me 30 MPH if needed. This will be more of a fun project, and something which will occasionally be used, so I want to keep it modest and simple. Maybe down the line, if need be, I can upgrade and improve upon it.

That being said, I was hoping to install 24" wheels, but it's unbelievable how hard it is to find decent tires for 24". What would be my other option? I wouldn't mind 19" moped wheels, but none of the electric conversion kit sellers have that option. I have no idea if my local scooter/moped would be willing to hack a bicycle hub to fit moped rims, but I would like to go with moped rims. Are there any ebike vendors out there who can help me build moped wheels?

Thank you

 

[Offroader]

Here are some pictures of my bike with the DNM gold fork. Best bang for your buck and honestly probably better than my more expensive Marzocchi 888






Electronics for active hub motor cooling. The electronics will also be used to power a front and rear action cam.
These were mounted temporary but I have not bothered to mount them permanent, yet they hold up just fine with off road riding.




Drilled out cromotor for active air cooling, fresh air gets sucked into center holes, goes around the stator and comes out only through the outer holes. Works very well and I can push the motor very hard on hot summer days without overheating. Fan used internally uses like 60 watts at full power. Before this mod my motor would quickly rise to 100c and I had to stop riding because it would take forever to cool off




Variable Regen throttle on left handlebar and regular throttle on right handlebar, this allows for easy breaking without having to always cover the brakes.
I prefer thumb over twist because of more precise control, being able to firmly grip the handlebar at all times.

 

[Mammalian04]

That's a lot of gear!

I see balance plugs coming out the top. Are you not using the Adaptoto BMS?

 

[Offroader]

That's a lot of gear!

I see balance plugs coming out the top. Are you not using the Adaptoto BMS?

I actually don't use it even though I bought it. I have those there from before the adaptto when I balanced charged every time, I could hook into my pack easily.

I found that my cells stay balanced where I don't even need to balance them for months. When they need balancing I just hook up into those balance plugs.

However, you're better off using the BMS to easily read the cell voltage. Because sometimes you may get a bad cell that will discharge and pull all the cells with it. It happens rarely and usually only if you physically damage a cell with bad placement.

I can read the cells quickly with a cell logger, but I get lazy and don't check often especially when the voltages have been stable for a long time.

Care must be taken when you place the batteries, the cells near the bottom get squished if not placed flat against each other. I've learned to take my time and cut thin wood to make sure all the packs stay flat against each other.

 

[sonnetg]

Wow...offroader...that is an insane setup, but I love it. Looks like you haven't had to modify steerer tube on the DNM fork. Seems like a perfect fit out of the box. Thanks for sharing these close up images.

I also noticed you rear brake caliper mounts seems to be modified. I was reading the link mammalian had provided earlier, (which has been very helpful by the way) and they had to take about 6mm off the bracket (see image below). I checked out the CAD drawings on Quilbix website, and it didn't seem to show any issues with rear disk brakes calipers. I have no idea how I could achieve this..maybe take it to a machine shop. I wonder if they could cut it for me, if need be.

As for my wheel delima, I have found out about Kinaye, and they seem to build custom wheels with motocross or bicycle rims. I think i might go with both 19x1.6 motocross rims. I hope motocross wheels wout cause any issues with DNM forks with rubbing and such. Here's the link to Kinaye: http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/collections/all

MXUS seems to be all the rage now. So many choices...my head hurts..lol..


Cheers.

 

[sonnetg]

Offroader...is the rear tire inflated properly? It doesn't seem to be seated in the rim properly? Am i the only one noticing this? Oh well..it's 1:30 AM...and i need hit the sack..got a long day tomorrow.

Cheers.

 

[Offroader]

Offroader...is the rear tire inflated properly? It doesn't seem to be seated in the rim properly? Am i the only one noticing this? Oh well..it's 1:30 AM...and i need hit the sack..got a long day tomorrow.

Cheers.

Actually I sprayed the rim temporary with plasti dip to see how I would like a white rim. It is starting to peel up in that area. I can easily peel the whole thing off and get my black rim back.

I only run 14PSI in those tires, but they seat well. But low PSI makes the bike ride amazing, it takes all the harshness out of the heavy rear with the heavy hubmotor.

 

[sonnetg]

Ah..it makes sense now. Any recommendation on Rims for the DNM fork? Should I go with 24" Bicycle DH rim or 17" motocross rims? I am curious if a motocross tire will fit in the DNM USD-8 fork? Is your front wheel a 26"?

 

[Mammalian04]

If you want the easy answer, use :
- 17x1.6 Moto rim on the rear with Shinko Sr241 tire in 17x3.0
- 19x1.4 Moto rim on the front with Shinko SR241 tire in 19x2.75

You won't have flats or busted spokes (as often) and the parts are easy to find.
My rear is a Holmes Hobbies 17" and a Prowheel 19" but any of the moto wheels that ES folks are using will work. Just match you number of spoke holes (probably 36). I am using a Hope front hub but you don't have to spend that much. Holmes Hobbies front hub is fine and I am sure Kinaye sells one too that they are used to lacing up for fronts.

It will look like this:
[ATTACH type="full" alt="Raptor 140 with 19" and 17" Moto Wheels.jpg"]177862._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[Offroader]

Ah..it makes sense now. Any recommendation on Rims for the DNM fork? Should I go with 24" Bicycle DH rim or 17" motocross rims? I am curious if a motocross tire will fit in the DNM USD-8 fork? Is your front wheel a 26"?

shaving of the brake adapter is no big deal, you can do it with a drill press and even a file. The reason why Qulbix doesn't shave it for you is that they have the motor mounted more towards the right side because of the chain line.

I'm not sure if all the trouble of offsetting the rim on the motor (weaker spokes) is worth it to have a straight chainline, so I and others just centered the rim on the motor and filed down the brake adapter.

I'm also not sure if using 150mm dropouts and a MXUS motor will change things, therefore you will have to adjust it accordingly.

Wheel size really depends also on what you plan to do with the bike? Do you want something strong? Something more stealth, therefore smaller tires?

 

[sonnetg]

Ah..it makes sense now. Any recommendation on Rims for the DNM fork? Should I go with 24" Bicycle DH rim or 17" motocross rims? I am curious if a motocross tire will fit in the DNM USD-8 fork? Is your front wheel a 26"?

shaving of the brake adapter is no big deal, you can do it with a drill press and even a file. The reason why Qulbix doesn't shave it for you is that they have the motor mounted more towards the right side because of the chain line.

I'm not sure if all the trouble of offsetting the rim on the motor (weaker spokes) is worth it to have a straight chainline, so I and others just centered the rim on the motor and filed down the brake adapter.

I'm also not sure if using 150mm dropouts and a MXUS motor will change things, therefore you will have to adjust it accordingly.

Wheel size really depends also on what you plan to do with the bike? Do you want something strong? Something more stealth, therefore smaller tires?

I would like the bike to be under 100 lbs. Going with motocross Rims/Tires will easily add 10 lbs more to the overall weight, but I will probably have no issues with broken spokes or bent rims. I would like to have it look as much symmetrical as possible. I think going with 24" front DH wheel and 19" rear motocross wheel would be a good option.

If i go with a slimmer motor like the Crystalyte HS series, would I have issues with disk rotors with 150mm dropout? The other option would be going with the 165 mm dropout to avoid disk caliper mounting issues with MUXS. The 165mm dropout might give me room to work things out, but it could also be an eyesore..lol.

Here's my other dilemma, I would prefer single speed without using a chain tensioner or a derailleur, but it seems this will not be possible due to the rear suspension. How does folks at Stealh Bomber achieve this? Any idea?

 

[sonnetg]

FYI...i am going through this article.

http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=146074

Really great information on suspension system. Apparantly the Raptor isn't designed with "concentric pivot" suspension in mind, so a single cog will not be an option without a chain tensioner. So much to learn and so little time..

 

[Mammalian04]

24" tire will be fine, just bring a flat kit, just in case...

The 165 dropouts vs 150? I say go 165 as you never know what you will install later.

Regarding shaving the brake caliper mount, I have a Cromotor V3 so that was the source of the clearance issue. If you are running single speed, you could offset the wheel but then you run into the issues previously mention about extra complexity and weaker construction (though I have no experience with offsetting).

You will need a tensioner or derailuer with the Raptor. Look where the bottom bracket is on the Stealth And you will see why it doesn't need one. When the suspension compresses, the chain length stays the same because the sprocket is around the pivot point. With a Raptor, the bottom bracket and chainring is way lower and slightly behind the pivot point. This necessitates more chain when the suspension compresses and less chain when the suspension is unloaded. The only way to take of the chain slack from this variable is derailuer or a tensioner.

EDIT: looks like you already found the answer. A lot happens in the world when typing paragraphs on an phone. Lol...

 

[sonnetg]

24" tire will be fine, just bring a flat kit, just in case...

The 165 dropouts vs 150? I say go 165 as you never know what you will install later.

Regarding shaving the brake caliper mount, I have a Cromotor V3 so that was the source of the clearance issue. If you are running single speed, you could offset the wheel but then you run into the issues previously mention about extra complexity and weaker construction (though I have no experience with offsetting).

You will need a tensioner or derailuer with the Raptor. Look where the bottom bracket is on the Stealth And you will see why it doesn't need one. When the suspension compresses, the chain length stays the same because the sprocket is around the pivot point. With a Raptor, the bottom bracket and chainring is way lower and slightly behind the pivot point. This necessitates more chain when the suspension compresses and less chain when the suspension is unloaded. The only way to take of the chain slack from this variable is derailuer or a tensioner.

EDIT: looks like you already found the answer. A lot happens in the world when typing paragraphs on an phone. Lol...

Thank you. You explained it rather simply. I didn't even notice the pivot point between the raptor and stealth, but now it makes sense. A MXUS with a single speed and 165mm dropout would be great. Would a 40A controller get me 40-50 mph? I would have preferred to order the controller from ebikes.ca, since his controllers are CA 3 ready for plug-and-play, but the controllers are geared for bicycles rather than high performance motorcross/hybrid bikes. Any recommendation for controllers which are CA3 ready?

I am actually reading through this write up on Qulbix Raptor: https://www.electricbike.com/qulbix-raptor/ It really goes into great depth or wheel and rim option.

 

[ziltoid81]

The speed also depends on your voltage AND the kv rating from your motor in addition to your wheel diameter.

I got a 4t MXUS in a 24 inch bicycle rim an go easily 65kmh with a full battery at 82V with 60A setup.

 

[sonnetg]

The speed also depends on your voltage AND the kv rating from your motor in addition to your wheel diameter.

I got a 4t MXUS in a 24 inch bicycle rim an go easily 65kmh with a full battery at 82V with 60A setup.

That's pretty impressive. Given with such high voltages and amps, what sort of DC power or key switch can be used with such powerful system?