Schwinn Trike is garbage

[tomjasz]

When coronary heart disease and strokes set in and the naysayers can no longer balance on two wheels they'll either be happy they can continue with a "BSO" or just become bitter whiny old men. I have my suspicions...

There are a couple of nice riding trikes but nowhere near the price of a sub par Meridian. The biggest problem with oldsters and trikes is that they are adopted by folks who haven't ridden a bike in decades and are largely clueless about riding two wheels much less the completely different dynamics of a trike. That said I know several trike riders that have had near epiphanies and huge grins from the freedom of travel their trikes have provided.

 

[dogman dan]

Sawsalls and angle grinders are fun to use on bike shaped objects too.

But nothing beats a good hammer. It's not random that I chose a trade where I got to carry a rigging axe for years.

 

[Chalo]

When coronary heart disease and strokes set in and the naysayers can no longer balance on two wheels they'll either be happy they can continue with a "BSO" or just become bitter whiny old men. I have my suspicions...

There are a couple of nice riding trikes but nowhere near the price of a sub par Meridian. .

That's like saying you can get a nice mountain bike, but nowhere near the price of a $54.97 Roadmaster Mt. Fury from Walmart. It's true, but irrelevant. Things that work as intended cost what they cost.

BSOs work exactly as intended. But they are only intended to be sold. What happens after that is of no consequence to the people who make and sell them. That's why Wally World offers no bike service whatsoever, and very few replacement parts.

Because the market for trikes is small and not particularly rational, there are some successful trikes that cost more than they should, too. Worksman trikes are made by Luddites to circa 1900 technical principles, in Manhattan. There are obvious ways to get their costs down, but their way works for them well enough. Trailmate charges premium prices for hideous junk. But their trikes incorporate features trike riders think they want, even if those same things impair their riding.

Sun trikes are a good example of OK design and quality at a commodity price. They are not particularly nice or particularly cheap, but nobody is getting flagrantly ripped off along the way. They are what you can expect from a market the size of the adult tricycle market.

 

[tomjasz]

I've now read everything I can find. I must say you are consistent. BUT, Is there a decent build? A frame that can be improved on? How does the Trek Pure compare to the field? Other than a stunning original price. They do pop up and from my narrow view seem better built than Sun or any other.

 

[Chalo]

Wow, I forgot about the Trek Pure. It's a solidly made trike, with the same dynamic problems as any other granny trike, but better build quality. It's probably the best of the breed today. If you can find one at a price that works for you, it may be a good choice. Don't expect to go very fast on one; the steering will get unpredictable somewhere above 10-12mph.

With any of these trikes, using a very heavy tire and tube on the front wheel might add enough gyro-stabilization to make them good for a few more mph. I haven't tried it yet on a trike, but it's worked in the past to make folding bikes able to be ridden without hands on the bars.

 

[tomjasz]

Wow, I forgot about the Trek Pure. It's a solidly made trike, with the same dynamic problems as any other granny trike, but better build quality. It's probably the best of the breed today. If you can find one at a price that works for you, it may be a good choice. Don't expect to go very fast on one; the steering will get unpredictable somewhere above 10-12mph.

They come up for anywhere from $350-$450. Uusually in really good condition, save a few blemishes from your predicted events.. Much the same as I saw with Vespa scooters. Old farts buy them not realizing they are really motorcycles not mopeds. One crash, a scratched up cowl, and they hit the market for half the cost of new with low miles.
The point at which the steering becomes unpredictable will be the max speed I'll set the controller for. I have no intention of becoming hamburger on my way to buy some. Most here assume we all want more speed. Simply not the case here. I seldom ride at my current bikes max speed. Actually one bike is set at 15MPH as a top speed. As my ability declines I'll likely lower the speed on both bikes. I'm thinking the BBS 36V 350W won't be capable of much more than 12MPH. But thank you, I'll be certain to use a cautious approach

How would you describe unpredictability? What will happen to the steering?

With any of these trikes, using a very heavy tire and tube on the front wheel might add enough gyro-stabilization to make them good for a few more mph. I haven't tried it yet on a trike, but it's worked in the past to make folding bikes able to be ridden without hands on the bars.

What would a hub motor and a heavy tire/tube do to the steering if I went that route?

Any ideas as to what would be the ideal setup for the Pure trike?

BTW your recommendation for brake pads was spot on. The Kool MTB pads made an incredible difference!!

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Chalo]

With any of these trikes, using a very heavy tire and tube on the front wheel might add enough gyro-stabilization to make them good for a few more mph.

What would a hub motor and a heavy tire/tube do to the steering if I went that route?

At low speed, almost nothing. It would add a little inertia to the rotating assembly. As speeds rise, the resistance to being turned abruptly will increase progressively, and diminish the trike's ability to chase its tail and flip over.

 

[tomjasz]

Got it.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I know this is an old thread, but for what it's worth: If you scan the various cities on Craigslist you will occasionally find a used Worksman for around 300 or so. Those things are very strong. I hit a tree at about 15mph and only the fork was destroyed. Suprisingly, everything else came out completely unscathed, including the front wheel with hub motor. Forty bucks later (new fork) it was back to business.

The wipeout was a direct result of it being an upright trike, however, and I wish it had been on film (the wipeout), because it shows what can happen at high speeds on those things. I tried to navigate a quick S-turn on a paved path that was slightly sloped right to left. I lost control in an instant, and when time slowed down (as it always does in those situations), my mind was able to think faster than the event. I knew I would either flip the trike (choice A) and lose a lot of skin or compensate to keep the trike level and meet the tree (choice B).

I chose choice B. The trike and I hit the tree dead on and I hit chest first after the bike hit wheel first. I aimed so that my head wouldn't connect. I bounced off the tree and was fine (surprisingly).

Moral of the story: 1. Buy a heavy, solid trike. 2. Go SLOWLY around any and all corners. 3. Always be on guard, because swerves can also flip it. You can't do bike moves on a trike.

That said, a bike can't stay perfectly upright at 0-3mph.

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks Mike, point well taken. I have learned that there are a number of Worksman models and the Trek Pure absolutely makes some of them out to be the crap they are. I haven't sen the Worksman Industrial. I keep looking. The good news on the Trek is that while it is upright the crank forward geometry does ad a little bit od stability. At least on a brief ride with the seat set low it seemed to respond with more stability. That and 35 cents could put me into a tree too. Unless I find an older INDUSTRIAL version, an maybe even then, I'll stick with the Trek. But I will pay closer attention to those workman ads and practice due diligence in checking them out. Thanks for the speed and dynamics warnings. They have been taken to heart and the ride will have a speed limitation. As do my E Bikes. Both adjusted as of this morning.

 

[docnjoj]

A while back somebody here made a Schwinn Trike tilter with a big chunk of alloy drilled out and the bottom tube cut. The rear axle stayed parallel to the ground but the seat and front wheel did the tilting. I can't find those posts, but perhaps AW or one of the search gurus can find it. Seems like it would solve a lot of problems with these trikes.
otherDoc

 

[amberwolf]

I don't have a link, but I think I recall something like that, using a disc brake perpendicular to the tube as the "locking" mechanism to hold it upright when parked.

 

[mark5]

Leaning trike like this?

Schwinn Trike Leaning Electric test 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZV9tsTENY

Schwinn Trike leaning with return springs test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1s1hs_otP0

Schwinn Trike Leaning test by CogHog
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50230

 

[docnjoj]

Leaning trike like this?

Schwinn Trike Leaning Electric test 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZV9tsTENY

Schwinn Trike leaning with return springs test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1s1hs_otP0

Yep those be they! I wonder what happened to them, since they both seem like very good ideas that were fairly well thought out. The springs look like they could be a bit more potent, or use a center lockout for standing in traffic.
otherDoc
edit: The handling seems much improved over the stock trike.

 

[aroundqube]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50230

 

[tomjasz]

How stable would this trike be?

 

[docnjoj]

How stable would this trike be?

Very if it has the same negative camber as the heavier USX. I can't tell from the picture. My wife has ridden the USX for about 4 years and has not tipped it over. She corners like a demon.
otherDoc

 

[tomjasz]

How stable would this trike be?

Very if it has the same negative camber as the heavier USX. I can't tell from the picture. My wife has ridden the USX for about 4 years and has not tipped it over. She corners like a demon.
otherDoc

Nixed! I cannot tolerate the leg position. Getting on and off is far more difficult than the upright delta. So far, I have a couple left to try, the Trek is the comfort winner. I'll just have to accept the speed loss when it comes to fruition. The saddle on the Pure trike is like a tractor seat. Goofy looking but very comfy.

 

[ddk]

How stable would this trike be?

Very if it has the same negative camber as the heavier USX...
otherDoc

it does not havve split rear axles.
Just a solid 15mm with one wheel driven.

I can't mount/dismount this one either. (without great effort)

 

[docnjoj]

That is too bad, since the split cambered axles make a very stable trike.
otherDoc

 

[Chalo]

Cambered wheels can give better cornering due to wider track per axle width, but they cost energy all the time-- even going in a straight line. One side of the contact patch rotates through a significantly smaller diameter than the other side, and that difference must be reconciled as tire scrub. Also, the right wheel is trying to turn to the left and the left wheel trying to turn to the right, and if the amount of compensating toe-out doesn't match the tire's cross-section, then the wheels fight against each other with the differences being settled as more tire scrub.

A straight axle, mounted solidly enough to minimize flex, gives the least rolling resistance in a trike.

 

[windtrader]

Another vote for worksman trikes. I have no idea how they stack up against others but they are very strong, at least the ones I have seen. They use these frames as the base for many food carts and such and hold up. Ditto on checking Craigslist, they come up often where I am, to my disappointment as I an searching for the industrial two wheel version for a boardtrack racer build.

 

[docnjoj]

Cambered wheels can give better cornering due to wider track per axle width, but they cost energy all the time-- even going in a straight line. One side of the contact patch rotates through a significantly smaller diameter than the other side, and that difference must be reconciled as tire scrub. Also, the right wheel is trying to turn to the left and the left wheel trying to turn to the right, and if the amount of compensating toe-out doesn't match the tire's cross-section, then the wheels fight against each other with the differences being settled as more tire scrub.

A straight axle, mounted solidly enough to minimize flex, gives the least rolling resistance in a trike.

Tires are cheaper than tipping over.
otherDoc

 

[Chalo]

Cambered wheels can give better cornering due to wider track per axle width, but they cost energy all the time-- even going in a straight line. One side of the contact patch rotates through a significantly smaller diameter than the other side, and that difference must be reconciled as tire scrub.

Tires are cheaper than tipping over.

Scrubbing tires is like dragging the brakes, though.

A wider axle with parallel wheels is the same as a narrower axle with cambered wheels. It's mainly just the track width that matters.

 

[docnjoj]

Now if they would only make those "swing axles" with a camber limiter like the older VW. we would have it made. I honestly see very little wear on my wife's rear tires. Unfortunately I have no other delta trike to compare to. The camber helps keep the width narrower at the middle of the trike. It lets it go through narrower areas (like doorways) that might catch the hub if vertical wheels. Again no comparative data.
otherDoc