So I bought an Ego-Kit,the 3400W one. Worst Idea Ever. HELP!
- Thread starter tuu
- Start date
Ykick
1 GW
Shipping that thing around is throwing good money after bad IMO.
Plus, you won’t find many service centers for non-factory supported battery packs. What you need is someone local with the chops to qualify WTF’s failed and then salvage what you can from there.
There’s a strong likelihood of bad semiconductors IMO. Something caused those cell groups to go 0V.
Let’s assume you send it off for the promise of some new cell groups only to discover shorted balance channel transistors? If you’re lucky, the place you wasted money sending it for new cells will catch and alert you to the problem?
However, that place may not be able to repair or worse, they ignore or don’t even notice? Install some new cells and watch the same damage happen again?
Your lowest cost way to salvage here is find someone local who can handle the job and work with them to figure out a plan of attack. I’m in NYC and San Diego frequently. Sometimes LA area once a month or two. Not looking for jobs but if you were close enough I might lend a hand qualifying whatcha got to work with?
Plus, you won’t find many service centers for non-factory supported battery packs. What you need is someone local with the chops to qualify WTF’s failed and then salvage what you can from there.
There’s a strong likelihood of bad semiconductors IMO. Something caused those cell groups to go 0V.
Let’s assume you send it off for the promise of some new cell groups only to discover shorted balance channel transistors? If you’re lucky, the place you wasted money sending it for new cells will catch and alert you to the problem?
However, that place may not be able to repair or worse, they ignore or don’t even notice? Install some new cells and watch the same damage happen again?
Your lowest cost way to salvage here is find someone local who can handle the job and work with them to figure out a plan of attack. I’m in NYC and San Diego frequently. Sometimes LA area once a month or two. Not looking for jobs but if you were close enough I might lend a hand qualifying whatcha got to work with?
So just as I had found with Ego-Kit, no one seems interested in repairing a battery like this.
I have started contacting everybody I could who has a shop that deals in lipo in the US, after some correspondence I got a light of hope. One of the companies that rebuilds packs told me the battery cells in this pack(if real) are pretty amazing and they have bought back many a cell with limited issues. They also said the rc charger was a poor choice(because of the a fore mentioned "smart circuitry") and to rethink the modified phone charger and watching the voltage and temp like babysitting a newborn. So I did. To my surprise......
I brought the bad cell packs upto 3.6 without a problem with a 1A charge for about 6 hours, unplugged them and let them sit overnight.
After resting overnight, this morning they were at 3.5v.
I then plugged in everything to the Ego-kit charger and same as before,to my dismay, the error lights blinked on the pack and charger.
I am now recharging the bad cells to atleast 3.9v/4.0v with the phone charger to match the rest so I can plug into the Ego-Kit charger again to see if it takes over or goes to error again.
My thoughts are the BMS may be the sole problem since the bad battery cells didn't drop much overnight indicating they started this mess. If the charger doesn't take over, I can only assume the BMS is the issue correct?
If it is the BMS does anybody recommend one to replace mine?
I found these: http://www.batteryspace.com/PCM-with-Balancing-Function-for-51.8V-pack.aspx
I have started contacting everybody I could who has a shop that deals in lipo in the US, after some correspondence I got a light of hope. One of the companies that rebuilds packs told me the battery cells in this pack(if real) are pretty amazing and they have bought back many a cell with limited issues. They also said the rc charger was a poor choice(because of the a fore mentioned "smart circuitry") and to rethink the modified phone charger and watching the voltage and temp like babysitting a newborn. So I did. To my surprise......
I brought the bad cell packs upto 3.6 without a problem with a 1A charge for about 6 hours, unplugged them and let them sit overnight.
After resting overnight, this morning they were at 3.5v.
I then plugged in everything to the Ego-kit charger and same as before,to my dismay, the error lights blinked on the pack and charger.
I am now recharging the bad cells to atleast 3.9v/4.0v with the phone charger to match the rest so I can plug into the Ego-Kit charger again to see if it takes over or goes to error again.
My thoughts are the BMS may be the sole problem since the bad battery cells didn't drop much overnight indicating they started this mess. If the charger doesn't take over, I can only assume the BMS is the issue correct?
If it is the BMS does anybody recommend one to replace mine?
I found these: http://www.batteryspace.com/PCM-with-Balancing-Function-for-51.8V-pack.aspx
tuu said:
I charged all of the cells to exactly 4.02v, plugged in the whole unit to the charger and again the charger went to error and the BMS led started blinking every time the charger applied voltage.
I think it is time to buy a new BMS, does anybody recommend one for my 14c application? Thank you.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
I'm happy that you were able to charge the cell groups with the battery charger. You should be able to find a 14S BMS to replace the one you have.
I just did a quick google on "14s lipo bms" and found several. Most are blocked by my company's network nanny, but one is:
http://bestechpower.com/14s15s16spcmbmspcbforli-ionli-polymerbatterypack/
I also saw one that was from a german company (also blocked), you should check to see if it looks like the same one you have. If so maybe you can work with that company on a replacement. Is there any identifying name on the BMS?
Warren
I just did a quick google on "14s lipo bms" and found several. Most are blocked by my company's network nanny, but one is:
http://bestechpower.com/14s15s16spcmbmspcbforli-ionli-polymerbatterypack/
I also saw one that was from a german company (also blocked), you should check to see if it looks like the same one you have. If so maybe you can work with that company on a replacement. Is there any identifying name on the BMS?
Warren
izeman
1 GW
HCX-D131 from bestechpower is the one i used several timed w/o the slightest issues. Only problem is, that you need to buy TWO from them. So be prepared to sell the other or keep as spare.
Trailsurfer
1 µW
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3
Hello builders..
i am new to this forum and have to admit that it is amazing how people are helping each other and what knowledge can be provided.
i just got noticed by a friend that a serious discussion is going on about a defect EGO battery, i can tell that i had the same problem.
got the ego kit, was super hyped and realised a non working battery. puh. (ego3400wrp on a kona precept)
my solution was: write an email, send the battery back to ego, get a new software and a working battery back.
official statement was, that improved firmware solved the problem of a supplier of ego.
riding since 8month now. no issues.
cannot understand why you have troubles getting in contact with the ego guys, as the problem occured several times in the first batch of their production and they solved it with other guys i know from facebook. they are operating for years, this wouldnt make sense.
just give them a call, english no problem. ask for danny or mario.
its just logistics to do!
i am new to this forum and have to admit that it is amazing how people are helping each other and what knowledge can be provided.
i just got noticed by a friend that a serious discussion is going on about a defect EGO battery, i can tell that i had the same problem.
got the ego kit, was super hyped and realised a non working battery. puh. (ego3400wrp on a kona precept)
my solution was: write an email, send the battery back to ego, get a new software and a working battery back.
official statement was, that improved firmware solved the problem of a supplier of ego.
riding since 8month now. no issues.
cannot understand why you have troubles getting in contact with the ego guys, as the problem occured several times in the first batch of their production and they solved it with other guys i know from facebook. they are operating for years, this wouldnt make sense.
just give them a call, english no problem. ask for danny or mario.
its just logistics to do!
izeman
1 GW
Glad we could help. 
Trailsurfer said:
Ok so we are 0 for 2 on 3400W Ego-Kit batteries, that is not inspiring. (mind you this kit sells for $5,170.21 USD and the battery is much of the cost)
Trailsurfer said:
That was my first thought, but unlike you, I got sporadic, useless emails and lies about sending me parts and test equipment. I have a full email chain I would be happy to publish, but honestly it may be devastating to Ego-Kit's business and that was never my intention by starting this thread. My intention in starting the thread was a plea for help to make something I paid an obscene amount of money for to work after I got jerked around by the company that I bought it from.
Trailsurfer said:
All I can say to this is, I am very happy for you, but I and many, many other people have not had the same experience with Ego-Kit as you, so Buyer beware. That's all I have to say about that, I am ordering a BMS and will update this thread asap upon install. Thanks again everybody!
Trailsurfer
1 µW
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3
oh man. that sounds unbeleavable and terrific.
as a customer i am concerned and want to get in contact with the ego guys.
if you want, give me your invoice and I get the things moving.
as a customer i am concerned and want to get in contact with the ego guys.
if you want, give me your invoice and I get the things moving.
Trailsurfer
1 µW
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3
tuu, as i live in that area i can go to ego personally.
lets sort it out.
lets sort it out.
mushymelon
1 kW
Trailsurfer said:
Hello Trailsurfer
Have ego send tuu a new bms and 14 new cells to replace the damaged ones. And let them know we are watching!
2200 views and counting.
waynebergman
100 kW
Yes, and Trailsurfer how about a burning bag of dog pooh on the EGO Headquarters front porch while you are at it. You are a good guy for offering this. Awesome! Good luck and shame on EGO.
izeman
1 GW
i think we shouldn't judge on EGO before hearing their side. just because they didn't show up in this thread doesn't mean they have nothing to say. but ppl/companies handle their communication differently. i never heard anything bad from them before.waynebergman said:
waynebergman
100 kW
Yes Iceman, I am sure you are right about hearing there side first and I look forward to Ego giving some kind of response to what "tuu" has encountered to date.
UPDATE 2/22/16:
Still unable to locate the correct OE (original equipment) BMS after several weeks of searching. Still, no shop is interested in repairing my battery and Luna battery does not offer a 7x14 cell configuration so I can not reuse the alloy Ego-Kit Cover if I replace the battery as a whole.
I am hesitant to replace the BMS with another brand/model unit as I am not real sure what half of the wires on the lower white colored pigtail, located bottom center goto:
I know half of those wires goto the power led/power display, the other half I am unsure of and unsure what signals they require so I am not sure how to source the correct BMS.
So my question is, do you guys know what those extra wires goto?
Does the a fore mentioned (HCX-D131 from bestechpower ) BMS have output for those leads?
Thanks a ton guys!
Still unable to locate the correct OE (original equipment) BMS after several weeks of searching. Still, no shop is interested in repairing my battery and Luna battery does not offer a 7x14 cell configuration so I can not reuse the alloy Ego-Kit Cover if I replace the battery as a whole.
I am hesitant to replace the BMS with another brand/model unit as I am not real sure what half of the wires on the lower white colored pigtail, located bottom center goto:
I know half of those wires goto the power led/power display, the other half I am unsure of and unsure what signals they require so I am not sure how to source the correct BMS.
So my question is, do you guys know what those extra wires goto?
Does the a fore mentioned (HCX-D131 from bestechpower ) BMS have output for those leads?
Thanks a ton guys!
Anyone?
tuu said:UPDATE 2/22/16:
Still unable to locate the correct OE (original equipment) BMS after several weeks of searching. Still, no shop is interested in repairing my battery and Luna battery does not offer a 7x14 cell configuration so I can not reuse the alloy Ego-Kit Cover if I replace the battery as a whole.
I am hesitant to replace the BMS with another brand/model unit as I am not real sure what half of the wires on the lower white colored pigtail, located bottom center goto:
I know half of those wires goto the power led/power display, the other half I am unsure of and unsure what signals they require so I am not sure how to source the correct BMS.
So my question is, do you guys know what those extra wires goto?
Does the a fore mentioned (HCX-D131 from bestechpower ) BMS have output for those leads?
Thanks a ton guys!
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Which wires are you referring you? Where do they go? If you get a different BMS it will not have the leads for that power meter.
Did the batteries stay charged after you charged them with a cell phone charger?
Did the person that said they could contact the company the sold you the system to get you parts help you out?
Did the batteries stay charged after you charged them with a cell phone charger?
Did the person that said they could contact the company the sold you the system to get you parts help you out?
cycleops612
10 kW
The moral of this?
12 x 20 ah 3.3v lifepo4 pouch cells = 39.6v = a similar 793wh.
or
8 x 30ah at 26.4v (over 12x fewer cells and each is properly managed and replaceable easily.).
vs 98 x 18650 cells for a similar (~850wh) capacity result. As we see here, they are such a can of worms, its uneconomic to diagnose and fix for ordinary folk.
What am I missing? 18650 canister cells are ridiculous for large batteries. Tesla use a surreal 7,000 cells i hear.
12 x 20 ah 3.3v lifepo4 pouch cells = 39.6v = a similar 793wh.
or
8 x 30ah at 26.4v (over 12x fewer cells and each is properly managed and replaceable easily.).
vs 98 x 18650 cells for a similar (~850wh) capacity result. As we see here, they are such a can of worms, its uneconomic to diagnose and fix for ordinary folk.
What am I missing? 18650 canister cells are ridiculous for large batteries. Tesla use a surreal 7,000 cells i hear.
izeman
1 GW
energy density of 18650 should be higher than those 20Ah a123 pouch cells. i got a 24s 20Ah pack which is around 1.5kWh and is over 13kg of wait. so REALLY heavy. they perform very well still.
cycleops612
10 kW
you may find this instructive
http://www.hoektronics.com/2013/12/07/electric-scooter-battery-upgrade-pt-2-battery-selection/
he seemed to be tackling similar issues, in a knowledgeable and systematic way.
http://www.hoektronics.com/2013/12/07/electric-scooter-battery-upgrade-pt-2-battery-selection/
he seemed to be tackling similar issues, in a knowledgeable and systematic way.
ColinB
100 W
Tuu,
What error does your battery charger show? It wouldn't be something silly like reverse polarity, or something like that, would it?
I wonder why the manual says you have to connect the battery to the charger in a certain order?
Colin
What error does your battery charger show? It wouldn't be something silly like reverse polarity, or something like that, would it?
I wonder why the manual says you have to connect the battery to the charger in a certain order?
Colin
cycleops612
10 kW
izeman said:
Sounds right, about half a kilo per 20ah cell x 24, as I said. Helluva battery tho - 1584 watt hours of ~constant voltage til empty.
assuming 2000ma 4.2v 18650S =188 cells at 45gm ea. = 8.5kg
or assuming 3000ma = 125.7 cells = 5.65kg.
as we see from the subject at hand, 188 cells is quite a can of worms if there is a glitch.
as to functionality, arguably a much safer and simpler 15 ah (9kg) lifepo4 is the equal of a 20ah 18650 pack in this example.
You get a 3c discharge rate if needed (as it inevitably is in an EV application) vs 1c for the first 10% of the discharge, diminishing to very weak and the last 20% of charge is just useless dead weight on 18650 li-ion - the 20ah is really only 16ah for this reason alone. Then add in the other downsides
.
I shall leave others to compare costs but what is the cost of a, to all intents irreparable cost effectively, battery, as we are seeing here?
izeman
1 GW
i guess many many builds here have proven that 18650 is a very valid cell to build an ebike battery. the 20ah pouch cells are nice, but you it DOES make a big difference to have some more kg in a rucksack or not. and the form factor limits the places to install them.
the battery is no problem to repair. do you think it makes the slightest difference if it's some 18650 cells or some 20ah cells? even if it's 5-10x cells more? if you got the knowledge, both is easy doable. if you ain't got the know-how, both technologies are impossible to repair.
the battery is no problem to repair. do you think it makes the slightest difference if it's some 18650 cells or some 20ah cells? even if it's 5-10x cells more? if you got the knowledge, both is easy doable. if you ain't got the know-how, both technologies are impossible to repair.
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