Alan B
100 GW
Nice battery friendly dual suspension frame. Need more options like this.
"Strong" Build. pic heavy.
- Thread starter Brentis
- Start date
Alan B
100 GW
You might consider the DoctorBass torque plates. They are so thick and strong that you don't need to mess with pinch bolting and they will easily fit inside your wide dropouts. Can be epoxied or welded. See the for sale new section for this sale thread.
Brentis
10 kW
monkeychops said:
Good day monkeychops.
Nice to hear another experimenting with this frame.
I think that's 4 others working this bike frame.
Are you in Canada? whereabouts?
No torque arms or plates for this bike.
I have decided to K.I.S.S. and use Dogman style pinching dropouts.(see 4th or 5th post from the top)
Until I crest 64kph/40mph I will run without a traditional rear brake.(requires some modification as is)
Just regen. and a 90mm front drum, or Front hydro disc when I upgrade.
I don't recommend this set-up unless you have a lot of experience/confidence riding @ speed.
If you are reckless or inattentive you are asking for trouble.
I have learned a couple of things in my 35 years.
One being that when it's your time, it's your time.
I've been close to death on several occasions.
When God wants ya, He'll take ya. :wink:
Otherwise,smile and ride smart.
I've cracked open the battery case for some investigating.
16s4p a123 will be tight, and the case itself will require some modding.
If you are in the market for an a123 cyl. pack.
Cell_man is your guy.
http://www.emissions-free.com/index.html
The battery case itself is cheap/brittle plastic. Ditch it.
Build your own battery case for whatever battery you choose.
Lots of extra room in the cage to take advantage of.
For others interested in this frame it seems they are still in production
Here is a seller in the UK http://www.ourcar.co.uk/ECOtornado.htm
Best of luck.
Start a build thread, lots of pics.
monkeychops
100 W
I have sent doctorbass a PM. I'm thinking that with his derailleur attachment ones I won't need to do any glueing or welding. Not that I could do any welding anyway...
I'm in the UK. The 'our car' link you posted are the people I originally bought the bike from in 2002. Recently I contacted them for advice. No help at all. Never mind - this place has proved a fantastic knowledge base.
I am buying a cellman rear hub DD kit. I am no speed demon. I can do 20 mph on my current mildly modified setup and a top speed of 25 mph is all I want. Any more and I would get too noticed and wouldn't feel safe.
I have a rear pannier rack on my bike on mine and planning to put the brushless controller on that, in a material bag I guess. Wondered where you were going to install yours?
I have a thread going already with lots of noob questions and mistakes etc. I will add more photos from now on - from yours and others it really helps and is loads more interesting to have photos. It's here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32898
I'm in the UK. The 'our car' link you posted are the people I originally bought the bike from in 2002. Recently I contacted them for advice. No help at all. Never mind - this place has proved a fantastic knowledge base.
I am buying a cellman rear hub DD kit. I am no speed demon. I can do 20 mph on my current mildly modified setup and a top speed of 25 mph is all I want. Any more and I would get too noticed and wouldn't feel safe.
I have a rear pannier rack on my bike on mine and planning to put the brushless controller on that, in a material bag I guess. Wondered where you were going to install yours?
I have a thread going already with lots of noob questions and mistakes etc. I will add more photos from now on - from yours and others it really helps and is loads more interesting to have photos. It's here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32898
Brentis
10 kW
monkeychops said:
While I won't use them on this build.
I am saving my pennies for a set of Docs plates, just to support a local(Canada local, Big country)
On a job well done.
Kool Kat, that DoctorBass.
He is one of the reasons I was attracted to this forum.
Congrats on the purchase.
I can't believe I missed your thread for so long.
The title of your thread put me off.
Your query is usually a tough answer to take, for most folks.
Answer. Full rebuild.
I see it as an positive opportunity, others, a negative experience.
I'll go back and have a read.
I use so many pictures because I'm a visual learner.
Show me how to do something once, and I'm usually good.
Tell me how to do it. Well that's hit or miss. :wink:
To that end more pics.
View attachment 9
View attachment 7
View attachment 1
Look out for the Tiger
Buddhist Cat.
Stay tuned...
Brentis
10 kW
Thanks Neptronix.
"Peak Power" has me inspired.
I think I will put the Hs3540 back on "Ghetto", use it as a girlfriend bike.
Then build "Strong" with a 20" Pie II.
H.V. Lyen, and 36s2p lipo.
I'm goin' volting nuts
You need a potent machine to compete around here.
Come on tax refund
Or this may take awhile. :wink:
I'll have to start with the Pie II, before it dries up and becomes Pie cubed.
I love saying Pie.
PIE.
Must be a sign.
Some updates...
Stripping it down further.
A blank canvas.
Will have to pick up a bottom bracket tool to get old smoothy out/ replaced.
Maybe an extended SBP unit for tire clearance.
Some angled steel.
31mm x 31mm. 3mm Thick. 610mm Long.
I will be utilizing the Dogman method.
Thanks Dogman. :wink:
Stay Tuned....
"Peak Power" has me inspired.
I think I will put the Hs3540 back on "Ghetto", use it as a girlfriend bike.
Then build "Strong" with a 20" Pie II.
H.V. Lyen, and 36s2p lipo.
I'm goin' volting nuts
You need a potent machine to compete around here.
Come on tax refund
Or this may take awhile. :wink:
I'll have to start with the Pie II, before it dries up and becomes Pie cubed.
I love saying Pie.
PIE.
Must be a sign.
Some updates...
Stripping it down further.
A blank canvas.
Will have to pick up a bottom bracket tool to get old smoothy out/ replaced.
Maybe an extended SBP unit for tire clearance.
Some angled steel.
31mm x 31mm. 3mm Thick. 610mm Long.
I will be utilizing the Dogman method.
Thanks Dogman. :wink:
Stay Tuned....
Pie II on 36S2P is going to be stupid fast.
20S2P will already beat all the local high powered motorcycles i've encountered out here, and geometry / wheelies with a 26in. wheel in the front has became a serious prob.
You might actually have really good results with a Crystalyte HT in a 20in. rim. There is certainly a lot more magnet and copper in those motors, and the diameter isn't all too different.
If you have the means, you may want to lean towards that direction. It'd be something i would experiment with, personally.
The tradeoff might be worse heat dissipation however.
Good luck. You have a great chassis there. I wish i could get my hands on one of those - it's a poor man's stealth bike, imho.
20S2P will already beat all the local high powered motorcycles i've encountered out here, and geometry / wheelies with a 26in. wheel in the front has became a serious prob.
You might actually have really good results with a Crystalyte HT in a 20in. rim. There is certainly a lot more magnet and copper in those motors, and the diameter isn't all too different.
If you have the means, you may want to lean towards that direction. It'd be something i would experiment with, personally.
The tradeoff might be worse heat dissipation however.
Good luck. You have a great chassis there. I wish i could get my hands on one of those - it's a poor man's stealth bike, imho.
Brentis
10 kW
Excuse the MS paint. @ least it's quick.
View attachment 2
Comments please.
Do you think I could use a third vertical bolt. Then extend wheelbase.
How far do you think I could xtnd wheelbase?
1" resonable to 6" hangin' it out there.
Wheelbase is currently 1195mm/47"
Be wicked to have the adjust ability.
I plan to run single speed.
Bottom bracket is on swingarm.
So chain tension should not be an issue. Right?
Just the appropriate chain length to support whatever wheelbase is chosen.
Do you think this clamping set-up strong enough to do this?
Cut-way bottom of the dropout.
Then I could use thicker axle'd scooter/motorcycle hubs. :wink:
What y'all think?
View attachment 2
Comments please.
Do you think I could use a third vertical bolt. Then extend wheelbase.
How far do you think I could xtnd wheelbase?
1" resonable to 6" hangin' it out there.
Wheelbase is currently 1195mm/47"
Be wicked to have the adjust ability.
I plan to run single speed.
Bottom bracket is on swingarm.
So chain tension should not be an issue. Right?
Just the appropriate chain length to support whatever wheelbase is chosen.
Do you think this clamping set-up strong enough to do this?
Cut-way bottom of the dropout.
Then I could use thicker axle'd scooter/motorcycle hubs. :wink:
What y'all think?
Brentis
10 kW
How does the MPII compare to X5305 in kv?neptronix said:
I was using the X5305 in a 20" wheel, as an example, on the http://ebike.ca/simulator/.
36s @ 3.7 = 132v @ 25amps = 66kph
36s @ 4.0v = 144v @ 25amps = 69kph
36s @ 4.15 = 149.4v @25 amps 70+
No load speed 95kmh
Exact what I'm looking for.
A 40mphclub bike.
60kph up a mild grade.
Undercover Moped
Switch out to a High Speed motor and go 80kmh+ maybe 100kmh @ higher amps.
Clyte Hs3540 in a 20" wheel(gonna need some cooling mods.) is..
36s @ 4.0v= 144v @ 25amps = 68.8kmh. @2850w. What I want.
Still over 80% eff. but seriously amps limited.
36s @ 4.0v= 144v @ 40 amps = 80.8kmh @4500w. Perfect.
36s @ 4.0v= 144v @65 amps = 94kmh @ 7000w. About the limit of Hs3540.
(*edit* No load speed of 140kmh.)
Undercover super 'Ped
But dam'it I wants me one of them thar' 20" cast Pie's.
Options.
Stay tuned....
Brentis
10 kW
Updates...
A couple of MS Paint drawings, see what will fit.
Looks good, 88v 16ah = 1.4kwh approx.
8 big Lipo packs.
Wont look as polished,but, 132v 10ah = 1.3kwh.
or 88v 15ah = 1.3kwh.
12 smaller Lipo packs. Flexibility.
I thinks I shall build both.
Notice finger jointed dimensional Pine strips. 3/4" x 7/16" x 8'
Time to build a box.
Since the battery is protected from impact by the metal cage.
My battery box does not have to be structurally strong. Just protect Lipo from the elements.
To that end. I thought I'd try a new (to me) product.
*EDIT*
Do not use this product for Battery box building.
It is NOT waterproof. In fact loses all tact, with very little water contact.
I used a gorilla glue product, that is 100% waterproof.
Actually is water activated.
See future update for more info/pics.
Dries fast and has good tack wet. Dries very strong. Good stuff.
Simple cut and paste. Just like Kindergarten
View attachment 10
View attachment 4
View attachment 2
Ignore miss shaped pieces leaning against. These were cut for a battery box for my
Cell_man 52v 11.5ah pack.
Sacrificial leather jacket. Good quality 1/8" thick cow.
I thinks I will save the leather for a second rectangular box.
Birch panels for L shaped battery box.
More to come.
Stay tuned....
A couple of MS Paint drawings, see what will fit.
Looks good, 88v 16ah = 1.4kwh approx.
8 big Lipo packs.
Wont look as polished,but, 132v 10ah = 1.3kwh.
or 88v 15ah = 1.3kwh.
12 smaller Lipo packs. Flexibility.
I thinks I shall build both.
Notice finger jointed dimensional Pine strips. 3/4" x 7/16" x 8'
Time to build a box.
Since the battery is protected from impact by the metal cage.
My battery box does not have to be structurally strong. Just protect Lipo from the elements.
To that end. I thought I'd try a new (to me) product.
*EDIT*
Do not use this product for Battery box building.
It is NOT waterproof. In fact loses all tact, with very little water contact.
I used a gorilla glue product, that is 100% waterproof.
Actually is water activated.
See future update for more info/pics.
Dries fast and has good tack wet. Dries very strong. Good stuff.
Simple cut and paste. Just like Kindergarten
View attachment 10
View attachment 4
View attachment 2
Ignore miss shaped pieces leaning against. These were cut for a battery box for my
Cell_man 52v 11.5ah pack.
Sacrificial leather jacket. Good quality 1/8" thick cow.
I thinks I will save the leather for a second rectangular box.
Birch panels for L shaped battery box.
More to come.
Stay tuned....
monkeychops
100 W
Looks good!
I will be interested to see how you feed the wires out of the box. Will you need easy access to the inside of the box?
I'm sticking with the stock plastic battery case on mine for now. It should fit my new controller (coming soon) and theoretically up to 20Ah of lipo. I shied away from getting a big LifePo battery because I couldn't find one that would fit inside the stock case. Didn't really think of making myself a new case... I quite like the spring loaded contact points on the stock frame (I think you've removed them).
I will be interested to see how you feed the wires out of the box. Will you need easy access to the inside of the box?
I'm sticking with the stock plastic battery case on mine for now. It should fit my new controller (coming soon) and theoretically up to 20Ah of lipo. I shied away from getting a big LifePo battery because I couldn't find one that would fit inside the stock case. Didn't really think of making myself a new case... I quite like the spring loaded contact points on the stock frame (I think you've removed them).
Brentis
10 kW
Thanks Monkeychops.
I did pull out the spring contact power transfer.
With the custom case, it would not have been easy to reuse.
All the wiring, boards, fuses, etc will fit in case.
Only power lines will come out, through a grommet, of some sort.
I will also create an access lid.
Likely at the top of the box, facing the stem.
I plan to run the controller on the downtube in the air stream, and use fenders for protection.
Full fenders are mandatory for me.
I hate dirty shit stripe up my back on wet roads.
I like the look as well.
More to come...
I did pull out the spring contact power transfer.
With the custom case, it would not have been easy to reuse.
All the wiring, boards, fuses, etc will fit in case.
Only power lines will come out, through a grommet, of some sort.
I will also create an access lid.
Likely at the top of the box, facing the stem.
I plan to run the controller on the downtube in the air stream, and use fenders for protection.
Full fenders are mandatory for me.
I hate dirty shit stripe up my back on wet roads.
I like the look as well.
More to come...
Brentis
10 kW
Update....
This box can fit
8 x 6s 8ah Zippy or Nano-Tech
4 MethTek Lipo boards
Big ole' fuse.
88.8v 16ah 1.4kwh. Easy 100amp cont.
View attachment 4
Gotta let it dry until tomorrow.
Then I can leather wrap.
Stay tuned...
This box can fit
8 x 6s 8ah Zippy or Nano-Tech
4 MethTek Lipo boards
Big ole' fuse.
88.8v 16ah 1.4kwh. Easy 100amp cont.
View attachment 4
Gotta let it dry until tomorrow.
Then I can leather wrap.
Stay tuned...
Brentis
10 kW
Update...
Time for a shop.
Found a kool new store in town.
Got myself a
View attachment 9
Also found this beaut.
A bit pricey, but local. To me local is important.
View attachment 7
Perfect fit :wink:
View attachment 5
View attachment 3
The "extreme range" battery box.
Steering is unimpeded. 3+kwh. 88.8v 40ah easy. Future option.
Stay tuned...
Time for a shop.
Found a kool new store in town.
Got myself a
View attachment 9
Also found this beaut.
A bit pricey, but local. To me local is important.
View attachment 7
Perfect fit :wink:
View attachment 5
View attachment 3
The "extreme range" battery box.
Steering is unimpeded. 3+kwh. 88.8v 40ah easy. Future option.
Stay tuned...
Brentis
10 kW
Update...
Should fit
88.8v 16ahNano = 1.4kwh.
20"Hs3540 @40amps =
107ft.lb @ 0rpm
2550w @ 66kmh
Lot's of fun
Stay tuned...
Should fit
88.8v 16ahNano = 1.4kwh.
20"Hs3540 @40amps =
107ft.lb @ 0rpm
2550w @ 66kmh
Lot's of fun
Stay tuned...
monkeychops
100 W
Like the metal box. It looks a really good fit.
Will you have the controller underneath in this configuration as well?
Will you have the controller underneath in this configuration as well?
Brentis
10 kW
monkeychops said:
Thank you. :wink:
I am considering this set-up instead.
View attachment 1
A bit tight on the thighs when pedaled, but
I don't pedal much.
Lets call it...
Passable.
Stay tuned...
JoramsWeapon
100 mW
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Messages
- 42
Hey great work on the GT! I bought the same thing locally for real cheap last year and made some enhancements to the controller and battery , a also kept the brush geared motor it's a Brett White P2B or P2A and it does take the watts pretty well. I hadn't noticed it before but I go in the garage and check the rear suspension and mine is backwards as well! The frame is heavy and because of the reversed suspension it handled like an overfed pig. 77lbs without batteries...
I was able to cram a maximum of 15S4P of A123 26650 into the original battery box, I'm anxious to see how yours will look when finished as I'm going to take a similar route after I drop the Greyborg motor into that frame when it becomes available !
The frame is heavy and because of the reversed suspension it handled like an overfed pig. 77lbs without batteries...I was able to cram a maximum of 15S4P of A123 26650 into the original battery box, I'm anxious to see how yours will look when finished as I'm going to take a similar route after I drop the Greyborg motor into that frame when it becomes available
!
Looks like nicobie found a source!nicobie said:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29503&p=524996#p524996
JoramsWeapon
100 mW
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Messages
- 42
Here is my battery case layout before I used a dremel to wear down the plastic separators, 15S4P.
and after soldering up
I could have crammed another 4 cells in there to make it 16S4P but 15S was easier to charge. How is your aluminum battery box holding up?
and after soldering up
I could have crammed another 4 cells in there to make it 16S4P but 15S was easier to charge. How is your aluminum battery box holding up?
Brentis
10 kW
Good job J.W.
I have considered sticking with an A123 pack(cell_man).
16s4p fits nice and tight, keeps the manufactured look,
and is basically maintenance free.
Alas, I need more voltage and capacity for what I plan.
I want an honest 64kmh/40mph bike.
Having the flexibility of Lipo, to run either a high voltage/low capacity fast bike.
or lower voltage/higher capacity commuter is paramount.
I haven't used the alu. case yet,as I am still saving my pennies for the lipo packs.
I'll be sure to update when I do.
It's reassuring to see a few of these frames being used.
Where abouts are you located?
Seems quite a few of these were sold in the UK.
Here in Canada they sold coast to coast @ Canadian Tire stores, but each store only moved a few units.
Too expensive I guess ($1000) compared to the Schwinn IZip @ half the price
and the same speed limit, of which they sold plenty.
Back in 2008 when I first got the ebike bug, not knowing anything E, I purchased the Strong.
I was impressed with full suspension, disk brakes, lights, horn, etc.
I rode it for 1 day before it mysteriously "died", in hind sight it was probably a simple fix.
I was pissed, a $1000 for 1 days use. :x I took it back to the store.
They told me that they had a guy who takes care of the ebikes warranty.
He only came to that store once a month though.
"Give me my money back."
"Sorry we won't except returns on bikes."
I calmly express my displeasure.
They decide that I can exchange for another. I didn't trust that it wouldn't breakdown to.
They suggested I take the Schwinn, plus a few hundred dollars, instead. Much lower rate of problems.
I bit.
Glad I did, because if I got a full return refund, I may never have looked at another Ebike again.
Take care.
I have considered sticking with an A123 pack(cell_man).
16s4p fits nice and tight, keeps the manufactured look,
and is basically maintenance free.
Alas, I need more voltage and capacity for what I plan.
I want an honest 64kmh/40mph bike.
Having the flexibility of Lipo, to run either a high voltage/low capacity fast bike.
or lower voltage/higher capacity commuter is paramount.
I haven't used the alu. case yet,as I am still saving my pennies for the lipo packs.
I'll be sure to update when I do.
It's reassuring to see a few of these frames being used.
Where abouts are you located?
Seems quite a few of these were sold in the UK.
Here in Canada they sold coast to coast @ Canadian Tire stores, but each store only moved a few units.
Too expensive I guess ($1000) compared to the Schwinn IZip @ half the price
and the same speed limit, of which they sold plenty.
Back in 2008 when I first got the ebike bug, not knowing anything E, I purchased the Strong.
I was impressed with full suspension, disk brakes, lights, horn, etc.
I rode it for 1 day before it mysteriously "died", in hind sight it was probably a simple fix.
I was pissed, a $1000 for 1 days use. :x I took it back to the store.
They told me that they had a guy who takes care of the ebikes warranty.
He only came to that store once a month though.
"Give me my money back."
"Sorry we won't except returns on bikes."
I calmly express my displeasure.
They decide that I can exchange for another. I didn't trust that it wouldn't breakdown to.
They suggested I take the Schwinn, plus a few hundred dollars, instead. Much lower rate of problems.
I bit.
Glad I did, because if I got a full return refund, I may never have looked at another Ebike again.
Take care.
shock
1 kW
Cool build! I like the look of the DIY aluminum box. I would fill that with LiPos and be done with it.
My Question is why 20" wheels and not 26"?
My Question is why 20" wheels and not 26"?
Brentis
10 kW
shock said:
First.
I likes me some torque. :wink:
Given equal volts/amps, a 20" wheel will have more torque/less speed than a 26" wheel.
It should also run cooler/ be easier on controllers.
Second
I am looking to build something closer to a moped than a bike.
So a tire upgrade seems prudent.
16" moped tires just happen to fit 20" bicycle rims.
Third
I think it looks kool. :wink:
There are other reasons, but I am writing this on an iPhone, and my patience with this format just ran out.
Stay tuned...
Brentis
10 kW
Brentis said:shock said:
First.
I likes me some torque. :wink:
Given equal volts/amps, a 20" wheel will have more torque/less speed than a 26" wheel.
It should also run cooler/ be easier on controllers.
Second
I am looking to build something closer to a moped than a bike.
So a tire upgrade seems prudent.
16" moped tires just happen to fit 20" bicycle rims.
Third
I think it looks kool. :wink:
There are other reasons, but I am writing this on an iPhone, and my patience with this format just ran out.
Stay tuned...
Some more thoughts on 20" vs. 26"...
This build is currently using a C-Lyte Hx3540.
A fairly fast wind.(I see Ebikes.ca is offering a 3548 now
)I also want to pop my Lipo cherry on this build.
I plan to start with 24s2p.
88.8v nom 99.6v hot
88.8@40amps on a 21.5"(pirelli) Hs3540=
72.5kph top speed.
2650w peak
100'lbs @ 0rpm
Overheat in 58min. 83.7%eff.
in a race tuck :wink:
I am looking for 60kph, so good headroom.
Under the same voltage, amperage, conditions.
88.8v@40amps on a 26" Hs3540=
75.4kph top speed.
2650w peak
83'lbs @0rpm
Overheat in14mins
still 81.5 eff. but much narrower efficiency band.So theoretically, a 26" gains 3kph, loses 17'lbs, an burns up
vs. a moped tired 20".No choice to me.
20" conversions of 26" bikes, create its own set of challenges.
Potential geometry issues, Pedal strike, crank strike, parts fitment.
I think the challenge is worth the reward.
I have had to deal with clearance issues on all my builds.(see sig.)
It can be overcome.
My next build will include a custom frame, based on Strong,
but designed to accommodate any hub motor,Bike, Scooter,Moto.
And better designed Batt.area/rear shock placement/seat area.
Still in the paper drawing stage, but I gotta keep the mind busy.
Time to take some welding classes.
Stay tuned...
