stupid question about Meanwells

[Philistine]

With all the people who current mod meanwells to bulk charge Lipo, wouldn't it be better to get one of these chargers:

http://www.bmsbattery.com/alloy-she...ifepo4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ev-charger.html

I realise this one is only 900W, but they sell them up to 2kw, and as an example with the one linked above, it is $80 to be able to charge 84v@9amps, isn't that similar to what people are getting with their meanwells setups, for less/same cost, and without the need for mods (and the potential associated failures with that)?

Or am I missing something totally obvious? I guess what I mean is, even if you wanted to get the 1500w version, it might be perhaps $50 more than a set of meanwells (in fact to get that much power wouldn't you need a few meanwells?), but you don't have to mod anything?

$50 difference doesn't mean much to me, so if I am looking for a bulk charging solution where I don't have to mod anything, and it is all neatly contained in a single unit, would the above chargers be OK for bulk charging lipo?

 

[geetarboy]

Hey Philistine, I am looking for a "bulk charging" solution too. This looks like it might do it, but you might still need one of those current limiters from ' fetcher' or 'auraslip' to dial it in just right - but that's just my guess. I am looking at getting (2) 48volt meanwells and 1 current limiter and try to hook-it up from what I've seen on the threads and when I'm ready to test it have a fire extinguisher handy Oh, BTW thanks again for helping me get the new controller working, it is "DEADLY POWERFUL" I can hardly keep the front wheel on the ground - will probably have to put a high/low switch on it. To get back on subject... With all the electronic gurus on this forum in the "for sale" section, if someone were to sell a "plug 'n' play" charging set-up for 12s 15s 18s 24s etc. they would sell a bunch, with so many of us going LIPO. Don't you think? - Mark

 

[Philistine]

Hi Geetarboy,

No worries on the other thread, I made the same mistake myself when I dropped a new 12 fet into a setup with a CA that I had been running a 24 fet with.

Why I am asking this question on this thread is, I don't think you do need to make the current mod (but I guess that is my question). I would have thought as these are chargers, they will just adjust their current accordingly, and not suffer the same problem the Meanwells do without the mod, or am I wrong?

When you order the charger, you can ask for the exact voltage you want (so for me, with 20S, I was going to ask for 83V, so that I would get 4.15/cell, with a bit of headroom for unbalanced batteries. If I am correct that you don't have to make any mods to these chargers (if you have the correct voltage set), then it seems to me that you only have to pay maybe $50 more than the Meanwell solution, and you have no mods to do, and it is all tidy and in one unit (with no wires etc.. hanging out).

I read on another thread a guy say he bought one of these and was bulk charging his lipo with it, but it was a very short thread, and I wondered if there was an imminent problem waiting to happen.

So can some gurus chime in, and confirm whether one of these chargers would work straight out of the box to bulk charge lipo?

 

[Philistine]

Bump - anyone have an answer to this question - will these chargers be fine without mod, straight out of the box (if the voltage has been set to the correct level obviously, I mean in relation to current limiting etc..) to bulk charge Lipo?

and if so, second question, for Turnigy 30C lipo, in 20S4P configuration, what would be the upper reasonable amp rate to charge with? To date I have been bulk charging @ 10amps, but I was worried if I went much over that it might start throwing the cells out of balance, what are peoples thoughts on the upper reasonable amp level to bulk charge in this configuration?

 

[neptronix]

Doctorbass has screwed with those a bit i think, VERY recently.

..no other reports.
I think the bmsbattery stuff is to be considered junk until proven otherwise considering their track record.

That being said, looks like a serious unit.. and maybe a good alternative to the meanwells. You get to be the guinea pig on this one tho

 

[AussieJester]

10 bucks cheaper than my genuine Meanwel 48v PSU ...unfortunately thats all
i can offer to the conversation LoL...

Step up Philistine, take one for the team buy it use it blow shit up and report back with your
findings LoL

KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

Past history has been very poor with BMS battery products, but I'm with KiM, go for it an find out!

 

[Philistine]

Thanks neptronix and kim. But apart from possibly being junk components, is there any theoretical reason why they wouldn't work? I guess what i am asking is, if set to the correct voltage would a lifepo4 charger work as a lipo bulk charger?

Also do you have a view on amp level for bulk charging per my post above?

I am happy to be the guinea pig, I just didn't want to order it and then people laugh at the idea of using a lifepo4 charger on lipo. I really only understand the very, very basics of electrics, and as we all know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

 

[Philistine]

Thanks Luke. As long as you see no theoretical problem, I will order one and video my house burning down. What is the highest amp level you consider reasonable (in terms of batt life and balance) for 20s4p 30c turnigy?

 

[neptronix]

Sure it would work. Bulk charging batteries pretty much all works the same.
Pump amps into it until it reaches X voltage.

I believe this unit has some adjust-ability for voltage at least, per the doctorbass thread ( sorry, you'll have to find it yourself )

Amp level for bulk charging is good here... make sure your chemistry can handle it. ( IE look at your charge C rate relative to the size of your pack in AH. )

If you want to understand how charging works better.. i suggest you connect a turnigy watt meter ( or equal device ) between the charger and the battery. What happens is quite simple. I understand that if you are used to a pack with a BMS and brick then it's a mystery, hehe... but it's just current flowing to a battery until a set voltage point.. be it SLA, li-mn, lifepo4, li-co, etc etc..

PS: a 20AH turnigy battery is rated at 1C charge rate with 2C maximum.
1C x 20AH = 20 amps
2X x 20AH = 40 amps.

So theoretically if you follow what's on the label, you can charge up to a 40 amp rate.

 

[Spacey]

Guys, guys...guys

I thought the same thing awhile ago and believe it was me that mentioned it in a thread a few weeks back.

Well I took the plunge and bought a 900W KP charger (King Pin charger) that charges my 16 cell 17.Ah Turnigy Lipo set up at just under 11Amps. It beats the crap out of having to charge each 8 cells side of the battery with a 1010B+ charger...takes nearly the whole damn day!

It's small enough to fit in my backpack, no wires allover the place and I set the termination voltage to charge my cells at 4.08V which means with WOT all the way home for 12.5 miles my cells end up at just over 3.8V.

Adjusting the charger was easy, I had already done the adjustments but emailed the KING Pin factory who emailed me back with some pictures on where to adjust the charging voltage. It gradually decreases the amps going into the pack as it approaches the end of the charge.

What's not to like? I almost feel safe leaving it unattended to charge my Lipo set up.

Here is the very quick response email I got from the:

You'd better follow these step to adjust the voltage:
1) Open charger's case.
2) AC power on(LED1 Red and LED2 Green).
3) Connect charger to a appropriate load to start the charger (LED1 Red, LED2 RED).
4) Disconnect the load and connect a multimeter to the output termincal and check output voltage and then adjust to the voltage you need by multimeter.

You'd better to adjust in about 1-2 minutes after the charger start (LED2 GED) because the charger may shut off if the load disconnected.

 

[Spacey]

Just make sure that when you order it you let them know that you do not want any bleed voltage i.e a small current enough to power the BMS. Luckily most of the Lifepo4 chargers come like this anyway So your lovely BMS can not do its job due to the charger just turning off when pack voltage is reached....easily fixed by breaking off the 3 legged transistor on the daughter board.....

But with Lipo you want the charger to just stop charging at the end of a charge, that way you are not holding the cells with a trickle charge.... less things to go wrong.

 

[neptronix]

Sorry for not giving credit where credit is due I only remember seeing the docbass thread.

So the charger that BMSbattery sells is the kingpin one ? or did you get it from someone else?

 

[Philistine]

Thanks Spacey, where did you buy your charger from? BMS Battery? I couldn't find your thread.

 

[Spacey]

@Neptronix: I certainly was not looking for any credit :lol: Just glad that I was slightly ahead of the curve and able to help for once on this forum after all the great help I have received in the past.

I bought the charger from www.ebike-bmsbattery.com good communication from them as well.

 

[wineboyrider]

We had some other threads that talked about modding King chargers for lipo (aka Ping chargers)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26718&hilit=+lifepo4
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24837&hilit=+lifepo4

What really sealed the deal for me on the meanwell was the adjustable voltage. I used the 48-350 for quite a while on my lifepo4 and lipo until it failed 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
My meanwell was/is still unmodified, but I have Fechter's mini meanwell limiting board for when I get enough time or courage to either buy a new one or fix the broken one.
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[auraslip]

It seems like a much better deal than a meanwell until you check the shipping price. I think it's a flat $100, so it only makes sense if you gotta a lot of other stuff to order. Also, shipping times. Also, dealing with bmsbattery.

Despite what people will say about the quality of those units, I'm fairly sure they're the same one Ping uses, and FWIW who knows how they compare to the quality of a meanwell clone.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

I purchased the BMSBattery 600 watt charger, told them to configure it for LiPo, and to shut off at 49V. It does that just fine. When it gets to 49V, it shuts off.

The folks at BMSBattery definitely do not communicate well, and the shipping number they gave me did not work to track the package, but it only took a few weeks from ordering it for it to show up on my doorstep, it seems well made, and it works as advertised.

I use a meanwell too for chargeing at work...
http://recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/meanwell

-Warren.

 

[Philistine]

Thanks for that info Recumbents, much appreciated.

 

[NeilP]

Here is the Doctorbass thread I think you need to read

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29096

Think these are the same units...and as far as I can see, these things make Meanwells obsolete.

Obviously DoctorBass has not left his standard...it has been heavily mod'ed

 

[Philistine]

Thanks for that link NeilP, I had missed that thread. I am going to order a 84V 1,500W one of these shortly I think, for bulk charging my 20S4P pack.

 

[rui_fujino]

silly question but how would you bulk charge 8 x 5s 5000mah packs with those alloy shell things?
would you make them 5s8p (18.5v 40ah) or 20s2p(72v 10ah)??
I'm thinking of bulk charging but cant quite find charger for them...plus cost!

 

[Philistine]

silly question but how would you bulk charge 8 x 5s 5000mah packs with those alloy shell things?
would you make them 5s8p (18.5v 40ah) or 20s2p(72v 10ah)??
I'm thinking of bulk charging but cant quite find charger for them...plus cost!

Would depend on what configuration you normally ran. If you normally ran as 20S, then you would charge it as a 20S (so you didn't have to change your configuration to charge), but if (for example) you were running 10S, then you would charge as 10S.

The whole point of those charges is you can pick whatever voltage and amps you want/are prepared to pay for.

So for 20S, you would choose a 84V charger (I would personally make it 83V, so that it was 4.15V per cell, both for battery life, and to give you some headroom for an unbalanced pack).

The whole reason I was looking at these chargers, is that I run 20S, and currently I split it into 2 10S packs to charge, and would rather be able to just plug up one set of plugs and charge as 20S. As far as I know the biggest RC charger is 14S.

 

[rui_fujino]

I purchased the BMSBattery 600 watt charger, told them to configure it for LiPo, and to shut off at 49V. It does that just fine. When it gets to 49V, it shuts off.

hi, im planing to bulk charge mine as well. could answer few questions i have?
1, when you ordered them were you able to tell them what output plug you wanted?
2, how long does it take to charge your lipo in practical?
3, maybe silly but did you ask for lipo or lithium ion?

thanks.