Suzuki Quad Conversion Insight

[MDG]

Hello! A friend of mine wants to convert a 1980’s Suzuki four wheeler to electric to use around his property. Doesn’t need to go faster than about 35MPH but he does want to use it to tow things. Small utility trailers, a pull behind brush mower which is quite heavy.

In doing research I’m trying to determine the best QS motor for this. I thought the 138 70h v3 may work as it has the gear reduction and would allow me to get a ratio close to stock or higher for more low end torque.

Also considering the V2 non reduction style as well. Maybe someone here has experience with this.

Doesn’t need a bit AH battery. Just something that’ll last 45 min or so.

Oh, he wants reverse too but I think that’s a controller thing. Planning on a Votol EM 200.

Thanks!

 

[amberwolf]

You probably have already thought of the things below, but just in case:

Hello! A friend of mine wants to convert a 1980’s Suzuki four wheeler to electric to use around his property. Doesn’t need to go faster than about 35MPH but he does want to use it to tow things. Small utility trailers, a pull behind brush mower which is quite heavy.

How much power does it take to do those things on the terrain/riding conditions he has? If you're not sure, you can guesstimate it using calculators / simulators like those at ebikes.ca. The things that matter most are terrain (slope, type of surface), weight, and speed for any particular instant in time. If the 4W and BM / trailers have a lot of drag on the ground itself (digging into it as they roll, for instance) it could increase required power significantly, especially on hills.

Doesn’t need a bit AH battery. Just something that’ll last 45 min or so.

Depending on how much power it uses, you might need more capacity than you will use just to keep the current draw on the cells low enough to not stress them (without using expensive high-c-rate cells).

If you don't mind some DIY :lol: the used EV cell packs at places like batteryhookup may work better than the typical prebuilt batteries you could get for the same prices.

Oh, he wants reverse too but I think that’s a controller thing.

Reverse is a controller thing but also a motor / drivetrain thing. If the original drivetrain could reverse, then all you need do is use that mechanical function, and not do anything in the motor/controller to do it.

If it didn't have a reverse gear, then as long as it doesn't have any kind of freewheel / one-way clutch, you can use the motor to drive forward or reverse, simply using the controller's reversing function. Some of them have a way to limit power, speed, or torque when in reverse, which may be handy to let the throttle modulate the remaining amount more precisely.

 

[neptronix]

Consider that the vehicle is in the 2000-2500lbs already, and the original motor peaks at 44kw.
Going a lot slower than the stock vehicle will certainly cut your power requirements, however, you are adding towing to the mix.

I would consider a motor that can do at least 30kw continuous considering the towing requirement..

The QS motor you're talking about, is rated at 20kw peak, but i think is 5kw continuous.

You're going to need a lot more battery and motor than you think, considering the vehicle's size and weight. The motor you're talking about is more suitable for a lower powered, small motorcycle ( ~300lbs ).

 

[MDG]

Consider that the vehicle is in the 2000-2500lbs already, and the original motor peaks at 44kw.
Going a lot slower than the stock vehicle will certainly cut your power requirements, however, you are adding towing to the mix.

I would consider a motor that can do at least 30kw continuous considering the towing requirement..

The QS motor you're talking about, is rated at 20kw peak, but i think is 5kw continuous.

You're going to need a lot more battery and motor than you think, considering the vehicle's size and weight. The motor you're talking about is more suitable for a lower powered, small motorcycle ( ~300lbs ).

Thanks but this is for a four wheeler. Not a car. The weight of this thing stock is only 298lbs with the orignal gas motor, so not sure how you’re getting 2000-3000lbs

 

[MDG]

You probably have already thought of the things below, but just in case:



How much power does it take to do those things on the terrain/riding conditions he has? If you're not sure, you can guesstimate it using calculators / simulators like those at ebikes.ca. The things that matter most are terrain (slope, type of surface), weight, and speed for any particular instant in time. If the 4W and BM / trailers have a lot of drag on the ground itself (digging into it as they roll, for instance) it could increase required power significantly, especially on hills.



Depending on how much power it uses, you might need more capacity than you will use just to keep the current draw on the cells low enough to not stress them (without using expensive high-c-rate cells).

If you don't mind some DIY :lol: the used EV cell packs at places like batteryhookup may work better than the typical prebuilt batteries you could get for the same prices.



Reverse is a controller thing but also a motor / drivetrain thing. If the original drivetrain could reverse, then all you need do is use that mechanical function, and not do anything in the motor/controller to do it.

If it didn't have a reverse gear, then as long as it doesn't have any kind of freewheel / one-way clutch, you can use the motor to drive forward or reverse, simply using the controller's reversing function. Some of them have a way to limit power, speed, or torque when in reverse, which may be handy to let the throttle modulate the remaining amount more precisely.

Invaluable information as always! Definitely all things we’ve discussed. I’m considering the 138 90H and talking with a guy from QS about it as well.

The original motor used a chain and sprocket setup too, no separate gearbox or anything so should be able to use the controller for the reverse function luckily.

Cool, all great help. I’ll update this if the build carries on!

 

[neptronix]

My bad, i was envisioning:



You probably want an equivalent to the continuous horsepower of the original motor at the least, which is what?

 

[MDG]

My bad, i was envisioning:

View attachment 344440

You probably want an equivalent to the continuous horsepower of the original motor at the least, which is what?

Haha no worries. I was like what’s this chap on about. The original is a 1987 Suzuki 230 QuadSport. I’ll have to find the orignal power specs too and see what can be done.

 

[neptronix]

My bad, i forgot there were ATVs in here!
Here's some info:
Everything you know about the lt230 - ATVConnection.com ATV Enthusiast Community
lt230s stock hp - ATVConnection.com ATV Enthusiast Community

Seems to be about 12hp, so to match stock, you'd want a 8.5kw continuous motor.
Top speed is a little over 50mph. so if we're re-gearing for 35mph, that's 30% slower.. so we're gonna multiply 8.5kw * 0.7 = 5.95kw

I imagine a 6kw motor would be good for that reduced speed, with 5kw you might want to reduce your expectations for top speed and consider towing slower, but it'd probably work out OK.

The QS motors are known for being very heavy but also that weight provides extra thermal mass which helps dissipate heat really well. I think you might get away with 5kw, if what you're towing is not super heavy.

 

[MDG]

@neptronix that’s awesome info! Thanks so much. So this is what he wants to pull: Swisher Pull Behind Lawn Mowers | Tow Behind Mowers

These things are heavy. At first it seemed like he wanted to just pull a trailer around his property, not a damn brush hog for his field. These weigh anywhere from 250lb-800lbs. If that’s the case, this may not work haha. I honestly have no clue. I’ve done 5 motorcycle conversions all using the 138 V3 so very familiar with it but never on a setup like this.

 

[neptronix]

If the Quad still runs, i'd recommend trying it out with such a heavy load to see what the impact on the stock power is..

It's probably a big impact, but with the gasser's gearing, no problem because you can plod along at a lower speed just fine. If we just have a single gear ratio electric motor, it may struggle to get moving due to the lack of gearing, although that 5kw QS can easily take 20kw of power in bursts.

If hills/really crappy terraine are not involved and slower speed is okay while towing, 5kw cont. motor with 20kw peak power might work.. otherwise i'd recommend getting into the 6-8kw continuous motor range.

 

[MDG]

If the Quad still runs, i'd recommend trying it out with such a heavy load to see what the impact on the stock power is..

It's probably a big impact, but with the gasser's gearing, no problem because you can plod along at a lower speed just fine. If we just have a single gear ratio electric motor, it may struggle to get moving due to the lack of gearing, although that 5kw QS can easily take 20kw of power in bursts.

If hills/really crappy terraine are not involved and slower speed is okay while towing, 5kw cont. motor with 20kw peak power might work.. otherwise i'd recommend getting into the 6-8kw continuous motor range.

Good deal. Yeah, if I recall he used to pull the brush mower with this quad before the gas motor went south. I think we can make it work. His field for mowing is pretty flat and decent terrain too. I think the 138 70H will be a good candidate and then try and run at minimum of 100A continuous which isn’t a problem. Thanks again for your insight on this.

 

[hobbyvac]

Check out these instead.

Electric Motorcycle Hub Motor Kit High Speed Electric Motor For Motorcycle For Walton Motors Atlas Honda Bikes - Buy Electric Motor,Motor For Motorcycle,Electric Motor For Motorcycle Product on Alibaba.com

Electric Motorcycle Hub Motor Kit High Speed Electric Motor For Motorcycle For Walton Motors Atlas Honda Bikes - Buy Electric Motor,Motor For Motorcycle,Electric Motor For Motorcycle Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

They are a 4 speed pit bike engine with a motor built in. They drop right into any quad with a 90-125cc pit bike style engine. Can be pushed to 10-12 KW I have heard. I have a Honda TRX90 that I will be doing this for. The 4 speeds are essential to have low gearing for towing and decent speeds. I will be using a Suron battery and maybe controller too for about 5kw.