tomjasz
1 GW
john61ct said:
Hey John, how warm does yours get? Early or recent version?
The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts
- Thread starter justin_le
- Start date
Hey John, how warm does yours get? Early or recent version?
John is not around anymore.
nicobie said:
?
tomjasz
1 GW
nicobie said:
Hans got the boot?
I was referring to John in CR. Sorry for the confusion.
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING
10 kW
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2019
- Messages
- 809
... did something else happen to him?nicobie said:
999zip999
100 TW
So has anyone measured the temperature at maximum output ??
I've had this issue for a while with the charger. It work like this: I connect the charger to a battery, select the right charge profile and Force start. The voltage reading starts fluctuating, but the amps reading doesn't ramp up and finally it says Pwr fault: Restart 36.2V, which I guess is a safety measure for the user saying the voltage is at a certain low/high level, but it doesn't seem logical as the batt voltage is higher than lower limit anyway. When hitting a button it tries to charge again and sometimes it does, but sometimes it doesn't and I have to try several times restarting the process before the Amps start ramping up to set level. It seems like the charger is sensitive to something with the battery that really isn't of concern. This has only been annoying up to this point, but something I've learned to live with, but now when trying to charge a 36V 40Ah battery it doesn't kick in at all. After forcing restart at voltage 36.2V, the voltage readout fluctuates wildly from about 35V to 43V and because of that the amps doesn't ramp up but goes to zero (I guess because of the fluttering voltage values above 42V causing the charger to shut off the amps). In other words there seems to be some instability in a control loop, and it wasn't like that a couple of years ago with a older firmware. I have tried to look for older firmware versions, but haven't found any, so if anyone knows what causes this problem or know where I can find some older firmware versions to play with, I will be very grateful.
If it's firmware, does it work to downgrade back to the version that didn't exhibit this? (assuming it's possible to do this; I haven't tried). Older firmware should be available from Grin (if it's not on the website you could see if they have a version they can send you). I looked in my folders and found these, if they're helpful
View attachment v1.026.satiator.zip
View attachment v1.014.satiator.zip
View attachment v1.015.zip
View attachment v1.022.serialcmd.satiator.zip
Also, there is a hardware issue with some older units, bad capacitors somewhere IIRC. You can contact Grin and see if yours is an affected unit.
On mine, I have had the fluctuating voltage and power fault when I use it on a battery with a BMS that isn't turning on the charge port (or turns it on then back off for whatever reason).
View attachment v1.026.satiator.zip
View attachment v1.014.satiator.zip
View attachment v1.015.zip
View attachment v1.022.serialcmd.satiator.zip
Also, there is a hardware issue with some older units, bad capacitors somewhere IIRC. You can contact Grin and see if yours is an affected unit.
On mine, I have had the fluctuating voltage and power fault when I use it on a battery with a BMS that isn't turning on the charge port (or turns it on then back off for whatever reason).
Huge thanks Amber!
It didn't fix my problem though, but I got to test the differen't FWs. I had v1.025 on it before and tried the v1.026 first. The amps started ramping up to set 4A and I thought it was ok, but after a few sec the voltage wobbling started and the amps cut off. I tried also the v1.015, but, but same result so I didn't bother to try 014 and 022. Like you say, I think the problem is related to the charge port of the BMS. I have a Daly 100A BMS with charge/discharge on the same ports. I managed to charge/discharge it once but on second try this problem appeared. I'm not a huge fan of Daly as it behaves strange in certain conditions, but chose it because it is waterproof since the battery is for an efoil project. The battery is sealed off in a watertight box with the BMS on the outside, so I dont have access to the B- (battery) easily, but if I dont figure it out, I have to cut the box open to connect directly to the battery, which I'm sure will work. Any tricks to activate the BMS charge port? I have thought about connecting a small load to the port while charging, but need to make some Y-splitters first. Do you think this can work?
It didn't fix my problem though, but I got to test the differen't FWs. I had v1.025 on it before and tried the v1.026 first. The amps started ramping up to set 4A and I thought it was ok, but after a few sec the voltage wobbling started and the amps cut off. I tried also the v1.015, but, but same result so I didn't bother to try 014 and 022. Like you say, I think the problem is related to the charge port of the BMS. I have a Daly 100A BMS with charge/discharge on the same ports. I managed to charge/discharge it once but on second try this problem appeared. I'm not a huge fan of Daly as it behaves strange in certain conditions, but chose it because it is waterproof since the battery is for an efoil project. The battery is sealed off in a watertight box with the BMS on the outside, so I dont have access to the B- (battery) easily, but if I dont figure it out, I have to cut the box open to connect directly to the battery, which I'm sure will work. Any tricks to activate the BMS charge port? I have thought about connecting a small load to the port while charging, but need to make some Y-splitters first. Do you think this can work?
It might. Shouldn't hurt to test it, as long as the load is not enough to cause a problem with the charger itself.
I have an old Luna pack that has a problematic BMS that sometimes wont' charge until you put enough of a load on the discharge port to drain enough of it to restart charging (even though the cells are all well below the HVC or balancing points, and close enough in voltage that they shouldn't cause any problems). It's probably a software problem with the BMS's MCU (bug, or design flaw), and that could be the same general sort of problem with the Daly BMS (there have been other reports of problems with them, but I don't recall the details, and didn't look very hard for them. This link shows all posts with Daly in them, and it can be refined for other terms https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=daly+&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=-1&t=0&submit=Search ).
It could also be a pack problem. At least one post has shown that the model of Daly BMS they used will prevent charging when there are cells at 3.4v and 3.5v, so a 0.1v difference between them. That's not really a bad thing, because cells with that much difference are probalby very different in characteristics are either failing or were very poorly matched when building the pack, and it'd be better to fix such a problem.
I have an old Luna pack that has a problematic BMS that sometimes wont' charge until you put enough of a load on the discharge port to drain enough of it to restart charging (even though the cells are all well below the HVC or balancing points, and close enough in voltage that they shouldn't cause any problems). It's probably a software problem with the BMS's MCU (bug, or design flaw), and that could be the same general sort of problem with the Daly BMS (there have been other reports of problems with them, but I don't recall the details, and didn't look very hard for them. This link shows all posts with Daly in them, and it can be refined for other terms https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=daly+&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=-1&t=0&submit=Search ).
It could also be a pack problem. At least one post has shown that the model of Daly BMS they used will prevent charging when there are cells at 3.4v and 3.5v, so a 0.1v difference between them. That's not really a bad thing, because cells with that much difference are probalby very different in characteristics are either failing or were very poorly matched when building the pack, and it'd be better to fix such a problem.
What is a Satiator suppose to read when its not plugged into a battery or its bms?
Mine does not read 58.80v for a top up of 14s, I read 2.93v for a second, then the voltage wanders a little from that point. From the main XLR cable (male pins) coming off the charger.
Mine does not read 58.80v for a top up of 14s, I read 2.93v for a second, then the voltage wanders a little from that point. From the main XLR cable (male pins) coming off the charger.
Depends on what you set in the profile you're presently using. If it is set to shutoff below a certain current, then that's what it will do--if it's not connected to a load that can draw that much current, the output will be basically "off" (there can be leakage voltage but not much).
If the load is high enough for it to draw enough current to be above the profile's shutoff point, then it will output the voltage necessary to allow the full current the profile's current limit is set to, up to the maximum voltage the profile has set.
If you need it to output that without a load on it, you can use the Force Start feature, which is holding a button on the panel down for a certain amount of time (see the manual for details; I dont' recall as I haven't used that feature in ages).
If the load is high enough for it to draw enough current to be above the profile's shutoff point, then it will output the voltage necessary to allow the full current the profile's current limit is set to, up to the maximum voltage the profile has set.
If you need it to output that without a load on it, you can use the Force Start feature, which is holding a button on the panel down for a certain amount of time (see the manual for details; I dont' recall as I haven't used that feature in ages).
badboy1999
1 mW
My Satiator on 1.026 firmware sometimes has the ''power fault error" message, I was thinking of upgrading it to the newest firmware, but Grin says 1.032 is not kosher:
from: https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-satiator.html
But in the firmware upgrading app, 1.035 is the newest. Did that solve the bug in 1.032? Couldn't find that anywhere on the internet, so I emailed support, apparently it's best to stay on 1.026:
Hope this helps someone else!
from: https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-satiator.html
But in the firmware upgrading app, 1.035 is the newest. Did that solve the bug in 1.032? Couldn't find that anywhere on the internet, so I emailed support, apparently it's best to stay on 1.026:
Hope this helps someone else!
Thanks Badboy.
I'm on my second Satiator now after the first was replaced under warranty when it started showing the power fault error a lot, even on different batteries.
My current Satiator does still throw the occasional power fault error, but I've figured out that it mostly happens at higher amp draw. I've lowered my fastest charge profiles to 4.5A rather than 5A and this seems to have helped.
If Grin is listening, it would be great if the Satiator could 'self resume' a charge following these faults or at least have the option to.
I've been caught out more than once expecting a fully charged bike when going to commute to work only to find it only half charged due to the power fault error....very frustrating!
Cheers
I'm on my second Satiator now after the first was replaced under warranty when it started showing the power fault error a lot, even on different batteries.
My current Satiator does still throw the occasional power fault error, but I've figured out that it mostly happens at higher amp draw. I've lowered my fastest charge profiles to 4.5A rather than 5A and this seems to have helped.
If Grin is listening, it would be great if the Satiator could 'self resume' a charge following these faults or at least have the option to.
I've been caught out more than once expecting a fully charged bike when going to commute to work only to find it only half charged due to the power fault error....very frustrating!
Cheers
Well, things continue to get worse for my experience with the Satiator. My second one now lost it's settings for the 2nd or 3rd time now and I cannot for the life of me get it to talk over the USB>Serial so I can load back the config.
I'm beginning to think it will just be easier to get a cheaper variable voltage charger instead. For me Satiators have been nothing but trouble really.
Cheers
I'm beginning to think it will just be easier to get a cheaper variable voltage charger instead. For me Satiators have been nothing but trouble really.
Cheers
tomjasz
1 GW
Ouch! My early version lost all settings. 36V 48V and 52V programs with varied charge speeds and now I can't get my computer to recognize the device. Jeezus, so I'm using a timer and $10 chargers. WTF!? The good news for me is none of the customers I sold too are having issues.
I wonder whether it is a software bug, or hardware problem? There must be something common between the ones that have had this issue that can be corrected, if we (or Justin, etc) can figure it out.
Would be great if it could be figured out. I now have 2 problematic 72V Satiators. One that has many power fault issues and randomly reports shorted, and the other (this one) that keeps loosing it's settings and cannot be reprogrammed.
I think I will keep using it though....I'll just have to painstakingly re-program about a dozen profiles each time it forgets.
Cheers
I think I will keep using it though....I'll just have to painstakingly re-program about a dozen profiles each time it forgets.
Cheers
tomjasz
1 GW
Can't the files just be saved for future restore?I'll just have to painstakingly re-program about a dozen profiles each time it forgets.
Not if the serial connection doesn't work.
The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts
My 72v satiator it's a grin non water proof one . But it gets hot to the touch at 72v 4.5 amp. How normal is this. As I don't use it as it is slow compared to my meanwells. . Yes to hot to keep you hand on .Get an actual measurement. Reduce current to keep the hottest component under say 120°F...
endless-sphere.com
That is probably capacitors. IIRC There was a problem with a batch of the rectangular caps in there that caused powerfault issues; it's probably somewhere in this thread but I haven't looked for it yet.
This seems like it is probably something corrupt in the firmware...but if it can't connect to be reflashed, that cant be fixed. The actual corruption could be from a FW bug or it could be from a flash defect, either in the MCU or in any external flash chip. (if it's external, it's possibly user-fixable, if in the MCU...it would take more hardware than even the average advanced user has to repair or reflash it).
It could also be an internal LVPS issue--whatever 5v/etc supply it has to run the MCU and stuff from could have a fault (bad caps, etc) that doesn't let it save state correctly on shutdown, like if it doesn't have enough capacitance so ti doesn't stay up long enough for the process to finish, etc.
Thanks AW. The only reason I have 2 is because the one with the powerfault.short issues was replaced by Grin a few years back under warranty. It still kinda works as an occasional charger, just for odd jobs, but I cannot rely on it as it randomly won't charge when I really need the reliability.
The charger I can't reflash now won't connect to the PC via the USB->Serial cable. I have tried multiple PC's, multiple drivers and the cable works fine on other equipment like CA's, Phaserunners, Frankenrunners, etc. so I know it's not the cable.
If I ever find the time, I might try making a franken satiator from the working parts from both units.
Cheers
The charger I can't reflash now won't connect to the PC via the USB->Serial cable. I have tried multiple PC's, multiple drivers and the cable works fine on other equipment like CA's, Phaserunners, Frankenrunners, etc. so I know it's not the cable.
If I ever find the time, I might try making a franken satiator from the working parts from both units.
Cheers
Yeah, it's likely teh brain board from the old one works fine, along with the power board from the newer one. (I'm not entirely sure if they are really separated across boards, but I know there are separate boards interconnected in there, from when I fixed the output connector on mine after it eventually broke the ground connection from wiggling / etc on it (not a satiator fault, just careless user).
The non-reflashable one could still be a firmware corruption problem as previously noted, such taht the software that controls the comms isn't working either.
The non-reflashable one could still be a firmware corruption problem as previously noted, such taht the software that controls the comms isn't working either.
My own "universal" wishlist also included the ability to work in reverse, taking the battery and stepping that into a 120V / 220V output AC sinewave inverter, either to run equipment or do discharge load tests on a battery by dumping the energy back into the grid. But even though most of the power components are there for that, some of the key control parts don't function bidirectionally.
Just curious (while re-reading some stuff in this thread to find info for someone else): What would it take to modify one of these to do that?
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