Thinking of getting an E bike

[Jay64]

The bike should be arriving between tuesday and thursday of next week. Should be just in time for the warmer weather (yes, our winter just hit this week, two days down in the mid 40s, that sucked! ) and the start of my new job. I gotta go and scout a safe parking area for it, maybe I can convience them to let me park it inside the warehouse.
So these bikes are good up to 36v stock, but I would need to take some cooling measures if I bump it up to 48v? But aside from the cooling factor, the stock motor and controller can handle 48v?

As far as waterproofing the throttle and controller, is it true that brushless units don't get stuck wide open, but the brushed ones do?

 

[safe]

So these bikes are good up to 36v stock, but I would need to take some cooling measures if I bump it up to 48v? But aside from the cooling factor, the stock motor and controller can handle 48v?

You are probably okay with 36 volts and maybe even the stock controller (maybe...) but when you go to 48 volts you need to worry about the controller and the motor both potentially having problems. The best thing would be to get the bike, ride it for one recharge worth and see how little power you get, then immediately tack on the extra 12 volts for the next ride. That way you can feel the difference you are getting. I'd advise switching to a new 48 volt controller that has a higher current limit (like 40 amps) and then build one of the ACL circuits like I'm doing and that will make the bigger voltage and amps run cooler down low where it matters. But do that later.

One of my bikes will have a nearly identical motor (the MY1016Z3) and that's the one I'm tricking out. This is why TylerDurden is freaking out because he's been trying to convince everyone that his way is the only of doing things and if we produce a motor that makes him look silly then that's not going to be something he's going to like. TylerDurden is using that motor at about 36 volts and no more. (you can get to about 25 mph - 30 mph that way)

So I'd do things in steps and after every ride put your hand on the motor shell and see how hot it's getting. When it gets to the point where it's painful for you to touch the motor you are getting into dangerous territory.

I'm actually going to go to 36 volts and 40 amps with ACL before I try going to 48 volts. The problem with going to such high voltage is that the motor rpm gets into the 8,000 rpm range at peak and that's going to be hard on the mechanical side of the motor. The brushes start to malfunction at such excessive rpm. So you can see you have to juggle some options and see how to get the most (and best shaped power) for what you want to do.

Take a look at my MY1016Z3 at 40 amps... it's a little warmer, but it also doesn't rev so high that gearing becomes difficult. The top speed should be about 45 mph.

 

[Jay64]

Well, the reason I am getting this bike is as a commuter, and I actually l like the exercise, so maybe I'll even be happy with the 24v. My main concern is that I don't want to arrive at work all sweaty from pedaling a lot, gets pretty humid in the summer time in Florida. I know that someday I will just want to see how much power it can make, and that is why I am trying to find out these answers. And also, if I can switch the batt pack to the 35v Dewalts that I already have, then I can probably charge them at work.
I still have my pocket bike that I am building that I can mess with to try to make bigger power. And I will be moving up to my full sized motorcycles after that. But then again, if the whole ebike racing thing takes off, then I might do some part time modifications to the bike to go run in that.

 

[TylerDurden]

Yep. I'm totally freaking-out.

*yawn*

Safe's concept of "more power and less heat" might actually challenge my status as the slowest ebike on the planet.

FTR, the MY1018z has neo magnets; the 1016 has ceramics.

 

[safe]

...if I can switch the batt pack to the 35v Dewalts that I already have, then I can probably charge them at work.

That sounds like a great strategy... they probably have chargers at work so you don't have to worry about carrying a charger around with you. Plus Nickel or Lithium weigh a lot less than Lead...

 

[safe]

Yep. I'm totally freaking-out.

Jay64, see what I mean?

TylerDurden feels like if we show him to be "lacking" in the motor enhancement department then he will become upset.

(he tries to pretend otherwise, but that's the root of the problem)

 

[Jay64]

That sounds like a great strategy... they probably have chargers at work so you don't have to worry about carrying a charger around with you. Plus Nickel or Lithium weigh a lot less than Lead...

I would be happy to bring my charger in and leave it there. The trip is short enough that I can do a round trip without a recharge. And I suppose that the prices for their chargers are cheap enough that I could just buy another one off ebay to have at home if I decide to go ride around a lot between my days at work. I only got hired part time, so I will still have a lot of f-ing off time. :lol:

 

[Drunkskunk]

I like the idea of adding a hub motor kit to a Montague Swissbike LX. Lightness, and visual stealth are desirable. Quietness would also be good but is not a show stopper -- I think a geared hub motor would not be too loud. I would appreciate comments and suggestions on what I should get. My target price is $2500 or so.

-- Joey

That swiss bike looks like a good start. all the motors you listed would be good candidates. the 40x series of the Crystalyte would be the most stealth, as its small and looks like a beefy drum brake. if you have steep hills to climb, it will do it if you use a combination of high wind number, and high voltage, like a 4012 at 66-72 volts. For the geared motors, the nylon geard version of the Puma would be the quietest.

The Bionix battery box is nice, but if stealth is a concern, then using one of those boxes is like a kid playing hide-n-go-seek, hiding behind a tree, then shouting I'm Behind the Tree! Most ordinary bike bags can hold batteries and keep them out of sight.

 

[vanilla ice]

TylerDurden is using that motor at about 36 volts and no more. (you can get to about 25 mph - 30 mph that way)

Thats me and albie at 36v for 20mph, Tyler is running at stock voltage... I think it was Xy or Reid or somebody that said they had 25+ but that could be due to different sprockets. If it indeed was Reid, that could also explain why he fried one, because of the higher load with the different gearing. On the flat I can go forever WOT at 36v/20mph without the holey 1018 getting too hot.

 

[deardancer3]

I'm a newbie to the e-bike universe and am contemplating the purchase of my first ride. Until the cold snap came upon us here in Albuquerque, I was biking to work (about 10 miles) on an old Nishiki Pueblo 18-speed about three days a week. Getting to work is a breeze but coming back home it is uphill almost all the way. I want to bike more but these old bones have difficulty with hills. I'm not interested in going faster than 20 mph but would like to have enough torque to climb lengthy hills with very little pedal assistance.

I like the idea of adding a hub motor kit to a Montague Swissbike LX. Lightness, and visual stealth are desirable. Quietness would also be good but is not a show stopper -- I think a geared hub motor would not be too loud. I would appreciate comments and suggestions on what I should get. My target price is $2500 or so.

Here is what I have looked at:
[3] I have considered the BionX PL-350. The kit seems very well thought out and there are at least two vendors in the US that sell this kit and the Montague complete. However, there are some apparent negatives. (1) I've seen several web blogs that suggest the BionX motor can go into temporary thermal shutdown on extended hill climbs. (2) This problem also seems to occur in regen mode on extended descents, resulting in an unexpected lack of slow-down, (3) The system is completely closed so there is no opportunity for tweaking, and (4) I'm an EE and just love to tinker (see (3) above). [

5] I am also considering assembling a complete solution by cherrypicking each major component. I think I would prefer a geared hubmotor to the 4x or 5x series Crystalite motors. -- Joey

WElcome Joey.

I am reeal familiar with Albq, NM and it is a great place. But there is non need to be worried about Bionx hill climb overheating in town. It takes a looong steep hill to over heat the bionx motor. Talking about the climb to Taos or Red river stuff. same for the Regen on a fully charged battery. Bird Ebike in Denver sells Montage with Bionx, with full warranty. However there is not much to tinker with, just the console settings.

If you are looking for something to improve on as new things come on the market, you would have to skip the Bionx, not because of performance or reliability, but Thre is just not much to putz with. My wife has a bionx on her ebike, and loves it, cause I cant tinker with it.

Where as that trip home up hill is your challenge, (really fun in that July 100 F rush hour,) and you are a pretty good cyclist, I think that the "ala carte" approach is the one for you. Almost any quality brushless system with newer style light weight batteries will do the job for you.

For now, I would just dual mode it with the bus coming home on tough days, until the new system becomes apparent.

( For years used to bike the area from the river to way east of Wyoming, Academy to Gibson. Now in colo springs and miss your weather and terrain. Drivers here a touch nicer though)

dick in colorado

 

[albie]

I don't think the throttle supports 48v either.... I haven't run 48v because I'm worried that it will blow the controller.

 

[blippo]

I have a bionx PL 350 on my Montague Swissbike LX. I replaced the knobby tires with slick tires. It kicks ass

 

[Jay64]

Does anyone know what the stock amps for this bike are? If I decide to go for it, 48v, I'm going to need a new controller, right? So that would be a dc brushed controller? There has been mention that the throttle won't work at 48v. What kind of throttle is it? Would there be any way to use a hall effect motor with a 5v regulator? So does anyone know the physical limitations of this motor, rpm limit before it starts flying apart?

 

[sabrewalt]

Well, I have two Ebikes and also have about a 6 mile commute. A Mongoose Currie 24V 450W and a homebuilt brushless hubmotor with the Mathurin Mods. My Currie is underpowered enough that I use it on the ramp at the airport where I do some work to go between hangers and just leave it there except for an ocassional trip to the fast food. The hubmotor ebike is actually a pretty good commuter but a the batterys are going after 18 months and a decent set of batts are 500-1000 dollars and you have to repeat that every couple of years... ugh. So I gave up... I will be back into the electrics I hope again someday but I feel like staying with it right now is to ignore the naked king that is marching down the street. I just CAN't shell out that kind of money for something so temporary. With big transportation companies being pushed into Ecars, hopefully a proper portable electrical storage device is not far down the road. I have assembled a GEBE kit and the thing gets me to where I need to go for about a dollar a week. If revopower ever happens I am going to build the currie into a hybrid.. I tried...I really tried but I got stranded way to many times running errands at the end of the day. This GEBE kit never quits because I keep an extra 22 ounce bottle of go juice in the drink holder. It's not an Ebike but it is a LONG way from your big Diesel in cost of operation. Good Luck...Enjoy your bike. You may have better luck in good ole flat Florida.

 

[albie]

it all depends how you use it... if you use it as a daily communter... a lifepo4 battery pack would pay itself off in a few months of daily usage. Hell I can tell you now that I haven't filled the car up for like a month!

ebikes are the way... if you can set it up for the range you need... it will give you little or if any hassles at all!

 

[vanilla ice]

I think a controller swap is needed for 48v, not a throttle swap? I plan to find out if the motor flies apart at 48 soon. I think it will hold together.

Are those gas bicycles legal? I guess the noise is kind of another downer, but other than that they seem great. I know there is a provision for little gas scoots in the CA DMV but I can't find anything about gas bicycles in there. Only electric. As for the mongoose feeling underpowered, have you tried it at 36v? That might satisfy you, and its easy as pie to do.

 

[sabrewalt]

The law is very muddy on ice bicycles. For the most part, THERE ARE NO LAWS covering engine assist bicycles so it becomes a judgment call. It's a bike that happens to have an assist motor on it. (Thats my story if I ever have to tell it). I have passed 5 police officers who had PLENTY of time to observe what I was driving and they pass me. Generally if you pedal a bit, obey all the laws and keep it 20 mph or under your ok. I also stay OFF bike/jogger paths unless I shutdown the engine so I miss that part of having an electric. . Some parts of the country are giving folks trouble. I have a feeling that as fuel prices continue to go up, they are gonna hassle us less. One guy here in the area actually goes to the community forums and shows off his bike and gets pictures next to the motorcyle cops. One of my next 2 builds will be a hybrid that will have both electric and ice.

 

[sabrewalt]

It's not the underpowered part that bothers me. It's that a set of batteries is hundereds of dollars and they lose value and charging ability over the life of the batt. AND I cannot pull into a station and get more power if I am 20-15-10-5-2 miles from home and the batteries crap. I am still a BIG fan of electrics... But I have to get to work and like the original poster, I want to do it cheaper than in my truck.

 

[Jay64]

I think a controller swap is needed for 48v, not a throttle swap? I plan to find out if the motor flies apart at 48 soon. I think it will hold together.

Some guys were saying that they throttle doesn't work when you bump up to 48v. So you are saying that with a 48v controller the throttle will work again?
Cool, let me know if the motor flies apart at 48. No sense there be two guinea pigs. :lol:

 

[vanilla ice]

Yeah my throttle didn't work at 42v. But I'm assuming its the controller thats locking it up. With a proper 48v controller the stock throttle should work fine.

My other 24v unite worked fine when I more than doubled the voltage, so thats what I'm basing my optimism on.

 

[Jay64]

The Ezip just arrived this afternoon. I got it all assembled and got the charger plugged in. One concern I have is that it doesn't give any time frame for the charger. It states to charge the battery pack until the charger indicates that the batteries are full and not to charge them for more then 24 hours. How critical is it to unplug the charger right after the batteries are done charging? I thought I had heard something about it taking 15 hours to charge up the batteries after a ride. I just don't want to be sleeping when the charge finishes and over charge the batteries. Does anyone know about how long the SLA batteries should charge for the first charge?

 

[albie]

The Currie Tech charger that comes with the ezip / izip... is a piece of shit... my one broke after 2 days of use, which is why i converted over my batteries to standard SLAs with a proper charger for the time being.

With that said... the currie tech charger has a shut off function. It will charge when its in red and once it goes green goes on float charge.

You know when it's broken when it just stays on green even if you charge it.

the charger that came with my bike originally states that its around 6 - 8 hours charging time.

 

[TylerDurden]

You can also use a timer/switch to cutoff the juice after 12hrs; as a safety measure.

 

[Jay64]

I plugged it in and went out to do some business stuff for a few hours. Probably about 6 hours from when I plugged it in till I got back home. The light was green. I was all stoked to ride it, so I unplugged and unlocked it and took it out in the street. Nothing. No lights in the throttle leds, no power at the motor, nothing. It's almost midnight here, so I guess I will try to trouble shoot it in the morning.

 

[albie]

I think your charger is fubared!!!!

Return the charger... this is what is frocked up about them.