Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

We are going to have to come up with better chargingl infrastructure to charge cars capable of taking a full charge in a few minutes or something different.
Delivering say a 40kWh charge in say 5 minutes, with losses, is around a 500kW dc charger.
They would have to be charging at over 1kV, possibly around 3kV to make the current handling practical.
That would be some wicked charging plug. I think some busses take dual 750V, 500A dc charging.

Unless we have better flow cell technology and fill and replenish on board tanks, probably more practical in the long run for cars and busses.
 
megacycle said:
We are going to have to come up with better chargingl infrastructure to charge cars capable of taking a full charge in a few minutes or something different.
Delivering say a 40kWh charge in say 5 minutes, with losses, is around a 500kW dc charger.
They would have to be charging at over 1kV, possibly around 3kV to make the current handling practical.
That would be some wicked charging plug. I think some busses take dual 750V, 500A dc charging.

Unless we have better flow cell technology and fill and replenish on board tanks, probably more practical in the long run for cars and busses.
Click to expand...


I found the Tesla supercharger stations to work remarkably well for taking on even more than 40kWh in a reasonable time period. They charge at ~340amps at 370vdc, and you find kWh's start piling up pretty rapidly. This is all from a cable and plug that is about the diameter of a 50cent piece, and quite manageable to mate/unmate.
 
"better chargingl infrastructure to charge cars"

I can swap pack in about one minute, so from "empty" to "full" (`Course, a small (much) battery, and whole vehicle much lighter than a "car" I suspect.)
 
liveforphysics said:
megacycle said:
We are going to have to come up with better chargingl infrastructure to charge cars capable of taking a full charge in a few minutes or something different.
Delivering say a 40kWh charge in say 5 minutes, with losses, is around a 500kW dc charger.
They would have to be charging at over 1kV, possibly around 3kV to make the current handling practical.
That would be some wicked charging plug. I think some busses take dual 750V, 500A dc charging.

Unless we have better flow cell technology and fill and replenish on board tanks, probably more practical in the long run for cars and busses.
Click to expand...


I found the Tesla supercharger stations to work remarkably well for taking on even more than 40kWh in a reasonable time period. They charge at ~340amps at 370vdc, and you find kWh's start piling up pretty rapidly. This is all from a cable and plug that is about the diameter of a 50cent piece, and quite manageable to mate/unmate.
Click to expand...

Hi Luke.
Yeh wondering how they do that level of charging (90kW), through such a small cable, is it rectified 3 phase grid supply, from the cable, at twice the voltage, half the amps and changed at the car, either that or the smaller diameter charge lead, could be concentric arrangement. Really good though and heard they are planning on doubling that to around 180kW.
We're about to see our supercharging stations down here, Just need to pay for a Tesla on the gold card, with no incentives from our retrograde government, @dodgygov.com.au, unless it's converted to diesel or coal :roll: .
 
Ewwww! New word maybe for ES Dictionary! Word is "nanoFLOWCELL". Vid:
[youtube]RqLpqR0SPnQ[/youtube]








... speaking re new "batt breakthrough" maybe?
 
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2014/ra/c3ra47853j

Old news? I Cant find any real good practical experiments, or results... Anyone?

edit: "Carbon aerogels from bacterial nanocellulose as
anodes for lithium ion batteries"

Looking for "real world" test-results
 
megacycle said:
liveforphysics said:
megacycle said:
We are going to have to come up with better chargingl infrastructure to charge cars capable of taking a full charge in a few minutes or something different.
Delivering say a 40kWh charge in say 5 minutes, with losses, is around a 500kW dc charger.
They would have to be charging at over 1kV, possibly around 3kV to make the current handling practical.
That would be some wicked charging plug. I think some busses take dual 750V, 500A dc charging.

Unless we have better flow cell technology and fill and replenish on board tanks, probably more practical in the long run for cars and busses.
Click to expand...


I found the Tesla supercharger stations to work remarkably well for taking on even more than 40kWh in a reasonable time period. They charge at ~340amps at 370vdc, and you find kWh's start piling up pretty rapidly. This is all from a cable and plug that is about the diameter of a 50cent piece, and quite manageable to mate/unmate.
Click to expand...

Hi Luke.
Yeh wondering how they do that level of charging (90kW), through such a small cable, is it rectified 3 phase grid supply, from the cable, at twice the voltage, half the amps and changed at the car, either that or the smaller diameter charge lead, could be concentric arrangement. Really good though and heard they are planning on doubling that to around 180kW.
We're about to see our supercharging stations down here, Just need to pay for a Tesla on the gold card, with no incentives from our retrograde government, @dodgygov.com.au, unless it's converted to diesel or coal :roll: .
Click to expand...


They charge at much more than 90kW, more like ~125kW delivered to the battery.

It works because when mated to a supercharger, there is some contactors that close to connect the pack's discharge terminals right to the charge port, and the cable is connected to a refrigerator sized box that has something like 12 of the onboard Tesla chargers fitted into it with the DC output all connected in parallel. Each charger contributes a modest 30A of DC current at pack voltage, but because you have 12 of them all wired up in a huge box bolted down next to the ~500kW HV to 480 3p step-down pad mount transformer, you can power 4 or 6 or 8 (depending on how many stalls happen to be at a given supercharger station) of those boxes each fitted with 12 of the 30A chargers.

It's a charge rate that is a bit difficult to fathom, yet there is no magic behind it's function, just good application of conventional principals scaled up. Think of it like plugging into 3 CHAdeMO stations with the output's all paralleled into feeding your vehicle battery.
 
liveforphysics said:
They charge at much more than 90kW, more like ~125kW delivered to the battery.
Click to expand...
So the charging infrastructure is very KISS.
What do you think of the Zoe onboard, chameleon charging system? where they use the motor itself as inductance in the charge circuitry, negating the need for the large external inductors.
http://greentransportation.info/ev-charging/fast-charging/renault-43-kw-ac-fast-charge.html
Ypedal said:
reading that gave me a chubby.. :oops:
Click to expand...
Confessions of supercharger enthusiasts, 5 minutes and it's all over :mrgreen:
 
megacycle said:
What do you think of the Zoe onboard, chameleon charging system? where they use the motor itself as inductance in the charge circuitry, negating the need for the large external inductors.
http://greentransportation.info/ev-charging/fast-charging/renault-43-kw-ac-fast-charge.html
Click to expand...

That idea was originally used by AC propulsion, dubbed the 'reductive charger' for the reduced components necessary. However, with this DC setup, the inductor needed for this is in the process inside the charger(s) that produce the DC from AC, so it would be more difficult to use the motor(s) to do this as it would require more round-trip wiring. Also, if the switching frequencies of the charger are sufficiently high, then the inductance necessary becomes small enough to negate any significant benefit.

I don't know the switching frequency, so it's hard to say for sure, but tech is certainly heading in the direction of higher frequencies, so I would imagine this was a design trade-off already considered by Tesla.
 
halcyon_m said:
That idea was originally used by AC propulsion, dubbed the 'reductive charger' for the reduced components necessary. However, with this DC setup, the inductor needed for this is in the process inside the charger(s) that produce the DC from AC, so it would be more difficult to use the motor(s) to do this as it would require more round-trip wiring. Also, if the switching frequencies of the charger are sufficiently high, then the inductance necessary becomes small enough to negate any significant benefit.
Click to expand...

Yes heard there was some patent license issues and because this 'chameleon' charger takes the a.c. straight from an outlet, albeit the freaking biggest standard one 63A 3ph, it's upset the charging station suppliers, because it essentially negates the need for them.
The round trip your talking about is possibly a metre of cabling, the existing controller supply cable to the motor, so can't see an issue there.
It is essentially using the controller in regeneration mode taking the raw ac rectifying it, switching and current controlling it I'd expect at frequencies standard to the drive frequencies, low kHz and yes instead of using the large inductors we might expect, uses the motor windings instead.
Whoever thought of that is one smart cookie :D
 
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ntu-researchers-make/1412342.html?cid=FBSG

The next generation lithium-ion batteries can charge up to 70 per cent in two minutes, and have a lifespan of more than 20 years. The researchers hope to see the batteries hit the market within the next two years.

PHOTOS
From left: NTU Assoc Prof Chen Xiaodong supervising research fellow Tang Yuxin and PhD student Deng Jiyang while they are making a prototype battery. (Photo: NTU)
ENLARGECAPTION
SINGAPORE: Scientists at Nanyang Technology University (NTU) have developed ultra-fast charging batteries that can be recharged up to 70 per cent in two minutes, and have a lifespan of more than 20 years – 10 times more than existing lithium-ion batteries.

The batteries will have a “wide-ranging impact” on all industries, especially for electric vehicles, where consumers are put off by long recharge times and limited battery life, said NTU in a media release issued on Monday (Oct 13).

“Electric cars will be able to increase their range dramatically, with just five minutes of charging, which is on par with the time needed to pump petrol for current cars,” said Associate Professor Chen Xiaodong from NTU’s School of Materials Science and Engineering.

Currently, rechargeable lithium-ion batteries – commonly used in mobile phones, tablets and in electric vehicles – usually last about 500 recharge cycles. This is equivalent to two to three years of typical use, with each cycle taking about two hours for the battery to be fully charged.

In the new battery, the traditional graphite used for the anode (negative pole) in lithium-ion batteries is replaced with a new gel material made from titanium dioxide – commonly used as a food additive or in sunscreen lotions to absorb harmful ultraviolet rays.

The NTU researchers’ work was published in the latest issue of Advanced Materials, a leading international scientific journal in materials science. The team will be applying for a Proof-of-Concept grant to build a large-scale battery prototype.

The technology is currently licensed by a company for eventual production. Assoc Prof Chen said he expects the batteries to hit the market within the next two years.

- CNA/cy
 
Neat, a mere ~1.8MW charger power based on an 85Kwh pack like the Tesla's... I think that's over 5000A. Better have it connect and disconnect by robotic arm for weight and safety reasons.
 
UBC did it right.

http://news.ubc.ca/2012/10/26/park-and-charge-ubc-researchers-invent-safe-wireless-vehicle-charging-technology/
 
Arlo1 said:
UBC did it right.

http://news.ubc.ca/2012/10/26/park-and-charge-ubc-researchers-invent-safe-wireless-vehicle-charging-technology/
Click to expand...

That will only ever be as efficient as running an electric motor to turn a generator to charge your pack. Intuitive certainly, but i'll happily plug in... wireless charging is only cool if you can do it on the move IMO.

I bet you could get close to 90% of the efficiency of a plug in system if you use good components.
 
How about using nuclear energy on your EV?

http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2014/09/18/nuclear-power-for-your-car/
 
megacycle said:
We are going to have to come up with better chargingl infrastructure to charge cars capable of taking a full charge in a few minutes or something different.
Delivering say a 40kWh charge in say 5 minutes, with losses, is around a 500kW dc charger.
They would have to be charging at over 1kV, possibly around 3kV to make the current handling practical.
That would be some wicked charging plug. I think some busses take dual 750V, 500A dc charging.

Unless we have better flow cell technology and fill and replenish on board tanks, probably more practical in the long run for cars and busses.
Click to expand...

Local supplies will also need some work. Houses, though a diverse load, are presumed to need about 3 amps each at 230v when specifying local transformers. That bus is taking the supply of 1000 houses. If lots of cars are expecting to use the local supply, the quick fix is smart chargers that are remotely controlled by the local distribution network. This answers the separate issue of off peak generation that is simply dumped. As an example, in the UK peak demand used to be in the evening, lasting 2 mins, which was the commercial break in the best soap opera. To meet this demand, the coal powered stations have to build up steam for some time prior and are left at full steam straight after the event. A total waste. Chargers would switch off during these two mins so we could get the kettle on.

This will still max out the system though. They will have to bring at least 11kv (one of our standards) down every street, and make us pay for our own chargers to be installed that run off that 11kv. Most likely metered before the power crosses your boundary. Then the power companies can control them circuits as local smart grids. No smart chargers required.
 
Charlie_R said:
How about using nuclear energy on your EV?
http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2014/09/18/nuclear-power-for-your-car/
Click to expand...

That's actually pretty cool. Strontium 90 has a half life of 28.79 years.
 
friendly1uk said:
Local supplies will also need some work. Houses, though a diverse load, are presumed to need about 3 amps each at 230v when specifying local transformers. That bus is taking the supply of 1000 houses.
Click to expand...
Yeh, most local suburban transformers, to feed streets, where I live are fused at 300A/415V, 3ph, be lucky to get 200kWh @ e.g. a good p.f. 0.93, that's still only 20kWh in 6 mins, neglecting losses.

friendly1uk said:
If lots of cars are expecting to use the local supply, the quick fix is smart chargers that are remotely controlled by the local distribution network. This answers the separate issue of off peak generation that is simply dumped. As an example, in the UK peak demand used to be in the evening, lasting 2 mins, which was the commercial break in the best soap opera. To meet this demand, the coal powered stations have to build up steam for some time prior and are left at full steam straight after the event. A total waste. Chargers would switch off during these two mins so we could get the kettle on.
This will still max out the system though. They will have to bring at least 11kv (one of our standards) down every street, and make us pay for our own chargers to be installed that run off that 11kv. Most likely metered before the power crosses your boundary. Then the power companies can control them circuits as local smart grids. No smart chargers required.
Click to expand...
Yeh I remember the Ad break, showing my age, :eek: I think we still have to have supercharger stations, with chargers running at around 1kV/3ph, no way domestic with safety risks involved, for untrained people, dealing with such a supply.
A123 containerized batteries and super caps, (grid load stabilization) next to substations e.g. near shopping centres, might work, with local generation, CHP, shared with the shopping centres, solar farms or future LENR generators, to create efficiency and help stabilize as well, which could use smart grid technology, so areas are not overloaded by simultaneous charging, close by. [/quote]
 
Lockheed Claims Breakthrough On Fusion Energy Project
Initial work demonstrated the feasibility of building a 100-megawatt reactor measuring seven feet by 10 feet, which could fit on the back of a large truck, and is about 10 times smaller than current reactors
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/us-lockheed-fusion-idUSKCN0I41EM20141015
 
TheBeastie said:
Lockheed Claims Breakthrough On Fusion Energy Project
Initial work demonstrated the feasibility of building a 100-megawatt reactor
Click to expand...
One of those in the driveway should do :D.

Be good if they replace conventional power stations with them.
That's if the real rulers of the world want it.
 
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