Thumb Throttle for brushed e-bike controller....

Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
23
Location
Levelland, Texas USA
Where can I find a thumb throttle for a brushed ebike controller. All the ones I've seen on eBay appear to be for brushless controllers. (some refer to them as hall effect throttle).

I have a 36v controller for a brushed motor that drives my mid-mount based e-Bike. The twist throttle is getting old and is starting to wear out. Plus I have a thumb shifter and believe it would get along with it better especially since I change gears pretty often on my ebike given that it's a mid-mount system and not a hub motor kit like most ebikes out there. I always throttle down before shifting anyways and a thumb shifter with a thumb throttle would make that easier to do not to mention the spring on mine is kind of tight so I have to grip it pretty well to keep it from slipping to a slower speed.


I think it would also last longer since it's not having to deal with the pressure of my hand twisting it forward/backwards while braking.
 
I don't know why a brushed controller it wouldn't use a hall effect throttle too. What do your controller specs call for?
 
Well I don't know what "hall effect" describes and once saw a few brushless controller specs use that term. I wasn't aware that brushed controllers/throttles use this as well?.

My controller is 36v 500 watts and the controller has 3 wires for the throttle and 2 wires for the motor (as I understand it, brushless controllers have additional wires for the "hall effect sensor" or something along those lines. But this is for the motor connection to the controller. I am not familier with how the throttles work for either controller type)

So the throttles for brushless controllers will work on my "brushed" controller so long as the voltage matches? (aka making sure I don't buy a throttle designed for a 24v controller or 48v, etc etc)

Most of the ones on eBay have more then 3 wires. Which is because they have a built in button and battery meter. Both of which is not something I will make use of if I end up getting one that has that.

I have one on eBay that is in my watch list for now. It's got four wires, but one is for the battery meter (this one doesn't have a button, so no additional wires).
 
Apache Thunder said:
Well I don't know what "hall effect" describes and once saw a few brushless controller specs use that term. I wasn't aware that brushed controllers/throttles use this as well?.

If your controller is of the cheap funky Chinese type, it probably uses a Hall throttle. If it's a Curtis or something along those lines, you might well need a 0-5k pot throttle.

The only 0-5k pot thumb throttle I have ever seen (though I am far from expert about this stuff) was the unit supplied for the EV Warrior bike. Those are kind of clunky. but they seem to work OK. There were about umpteen squillion of the electrical system kits in circulation after the EV Warrior perished, so maybe there's a trove of them somewhere.

Here is one rinky-dink looking site that purports to have those throttles.
 
A hall effect throttle has a sensor with a voltage of normally 5V. The sensor changes the output voltage on the sense wire when you twist the throttle. It works just like hall sensors in a brushless hub motor. Output range is generally ~0.2-4.8V with a 5V source supply.
 
Oh I see. And yes it's one of the controllers I got from GNGElectric in China. The supplier of the mid-mount systems that some other users have been using on the forums.

So it sounds like I can probably use the other thumb throttles on here since they are the same design.

EDIT:

Mine is identical to one of these on ebay, only that it's the 500watt model: (it has same brand and same wire connections)

Ebay

GNG also provided me with second twist throttle when I had him send me the upgraded controller (I originally has 350watt one but it was underpowered for me). However this throttle, like the other one has a really really short cord. It was basically only 5-6 inches long. I have no idea why GNG cuts them that short. The new twist throttle he did send seems to be for a different voltage controller since when I try to use it, the motor spins even when the throttle is not being touched. (twisting it does increase motor speed though, so it seems to be the same type, just different voltage?)

So it seems different voltage controllers need different throttles designed for that voltage controller. Any idea as to why this is? :p
 
Apache Thunder said:
So it seems different voltage controllers need different throttles designed for that voltage controller. Any idea as to why this is? :p

That's only the throttles that have battery indicator LEDs. Avoid those if you can; they won't necessarily correspond usefully with the discharge voltage curve of your particular battery, and they provide a handy source of voltage for the hall throttle wires to deliver a false "full throttle" signal in wet conditions. Grin Technologies in soggy Vancouver BC long ago abandoned the use of throttles with indicator lights for this latter reason.

Hall effect throttles without indicator lights are fully interchangeable among all system voltages.
 
Of all the various throttles for brushed controllers us Aprilia Enjoy folk have used - they've always been the same 0to5v ones that we've used also on brushless.
Pedants may now point out that these controllers emit a signal of about 1-4v. Good for you.

There's lots of info on the various controllers at the TNC scooters site - you may find yours there.
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=41

I often buy one with an LED signal and just cut that fourth wire off. It's easy to work out which it is.
Connect your controller to pos and neg wires. That leaves two wires free. Use a multimeter to test the output of the each of the other two wires between it and earth, and the one that goes up and down in roughly the range above as you actuate the throttle is your signal wire. Put it to the controller's input.
The other wire is the LED one, so tape it up or cut it off....
 
Yeah I wouldn't really make use of the LEDs/buttons, So I would probably just isolate the extra wires and keep them insulated from the ones that are being used. I will bookmark the thumb throttle I found. This site you linked to ships from the USA? If so that's great since I won't have to wait weeks for them to arrive and the price I got seems to only be a dollar or two higher then the ones I found on eBay.

I currently use speaker wires to extend the really short wires that my throttle came with. It will be nice to finally have one at the proper length. :D
 
Hey thats cool. The site I linked also has an ebay store that is sometimes cheaper for the same item due to cheaper shipping.
http://stores.ebay.com/TNC-Scooters

What voltage are you using? The LED meter tells you nothing on the throttle.
But these are really handy as the tell you a lot more than one LED, and seem to not blow at 33.6V hot-off-charge on 8s lipo, despite the specs saying 30V max.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Mini-Digital-Voltmeter-3-3-30V-Red-LED-Vehicles-Motor-Voltage-Panel-Meter-/320911422611?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item4ab7cfb493

There's hundreds on ebay all over.

What bike are you building? Consider updating your profile for a location, you'll get local help...
 
<-- Updated my profile.

The voltage of the battery and controller is 36v. The battery is a LifePo4 I got from an eBay seller from China. Nothing too special. I did do quite the browsing and feedback review before eventually buying it. I avoided duct tape batteries. All in all, the careful selection paid off as I've had the battery since after I left my previous job back in the middle of last year and thus far and it has held up great with no noticeable drop in speed/range.

And older battery box I built had a battery meter, but this meter was designed for SLAs (which was the previous battery I had before this one) and was quite inaccurate for my new Lithium battery chemistry. I would have a feeling the battery meter on that throttle I bookmarked would have the same issue. Thus I just use the odometer on my bike to keep track of the miles I travel and from that I knew when I have to recharge. On the very first test run with the battery, I ran it till the BMS hit the safety cut off so that I can get an absolute range. From that the bike went 13 miles. So I took off 3 miles and thus decided 10 miles is the range I take the bike to before recharging. Though now that I've upgraded to a 500watt controller (I had a 350 watt controller at the time I first bought the battery), I may want to bump off a mile or two. So I will probably start recharging it on the eighth mile now.

To put this in perspective, I only got about 5 miles tops out of my older SLA batteries which were close to 40+ pounds in weight and after about 2 to 3 miles it would start to slow down noticeably. The new battery sticks to a high speed through about 70% or so of it's range, then the top speed on first gear drops by about 1mph or so. It doesn't drop to 15MPH till about 90% of it's used up capacity, by that point I know I should really put it on the charger pronto but I rarely take it that far.

This was long before I had migrated the ebike parts to the current bike which has rear and front suspension. The SLAs would never be able to go on the seat post rack I have now since it would be too much for the rack/seat post to handle. :p

As for the throttle, it's the same one I've had since when I first got the ebike parts to start out with back in November 2011 I think so it's really starting to show it's age. Here's the photos I took of my ebike as it is currently configured. (I took these just 30 minutes ago)

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3075/20130530194740.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6025/20130530194619.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/9391/20130530194612.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img694/7610/20130530194527.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img441/4403/20130530194514.jpg

Don't get too concerned about that duct taped area near the throttle. Underneath all that are twist on wire connectors (I don't know exactly what they're called, they are typically found connecting wires together on ceiling fans and such but the ones I use are smaller) sealed by hot glue to make them permanent and water proof, so it's water tight and it's been like that for months now with no issues.

So even though the current wire setup is stable, I still want to get the new thumb throttle with the proper length wires. Also, as for the thumb shifter, it has a push button which I use to shift to higher gears as I get faster. (in the photos the button is not present since it wore out and fell off, but that little white pole in the center still functions and that's what I press now to get it to shift) I just use my thumb to shift it back to first gear after I've gone through the gears and such and need to slow down. Probably need to buy a newer shifter at some point. I am currently not employed, so I can't really buy new parts and can get small things once a month or so. I'm surprised it has held up for so long without having to buy something expensive to fix it. :D

The bike gets a top speed of 18 MPH on first gear just about anywhere I go in town. I get 22 to 23MPH on second gear, third gets me 26MPH, and close to 30+MPH on 4th. Mainly the only times I can hit 4th gear is if there is a slight downhill or if the wind is helping me. But in 90% of my travels, I can get to 2nd gear most of the time and 3rd gear half the time. The new 500 watt controller improved this by a lot. Before when I had the 350 watt controller (have been using the same motor for all of this) I could only get to 2nd gear most of the time and rarely able to get 3rd and when under a heavy load at near the top RPM, the motor RPM would fluctuate by a bit which seems to be something to do with the current limitor in the controller. That old controller was just crappy, so I have since upgraded to the newer one. :p

My mounting bracket for the motor has it mounted in the area under the kickstand mount underneath the frame. In one photo you can see that I had taken a Dremel and removed some material on the rear fork on the right side in order to get the bracket to line up in parallel with the crank gear since the motor cog needs to line up with the crank cog pretty closely for it to behave well and not jam/derail the chain.

A while back I had made a thread asking about any left side bottom bracket cups that are slightly longer then normal. But that never panned out, thus was forced to make the adjustment on the other end of the bracket where it meets the frame. It's been like that for awhile now and doesn't appear to have compromised the metal strength since it has not flexed or bended thus far. I don't live anywhere near the mountains have rarely take this bike off road, so I don't think it will ever become a problem for me.

Also, due to how the pivot is positioned for the rear suspension, I can't really use the mid mount kits that have the mounter mounted near the front between the frame and the front wheel, thus the reason I'm stuck having the motor mounted where it is now. As long as I keep the chain lubricated, I don't have any issues with the chain. Typically if the chain gets too sticky, the chain makes a grinding noise when I accelerate and won't stop till I drop throttle and pedal a little be to take out the slack. The chain has the habit of sticking to the motor cog a little too long and chain can actually drop down and hit the bottom screw mount of the cover plate that holds the motor to the bracket and also holds the chain stay in place. The chain stay/tensioner originally was a cheap 10 tooth gear similar to the ones derailleurs use.

But the chain hoped off it quite often when ever it started sticking to the motor cog too long so I just went and got a larger roller type originally for ATV/MTB moterbikes. So now the chain doesn't have anything to derail off of, and the pulley is near indestructible, so if the chain ever does jam up, it won't destroy the chain pulley and I just pedal with the motor off to unjam it. If it's really jammed, I move the bike backwards instead of pedaling. But now that I got it lubricated well (West Texas dust storms can really gum things up occasionally) it has yet to even start that grinding noise and is working well. :D


I think the motor has almost 2000+ miles on it thus far. I've had it since near the end of 2011. After I stabilized the rig with a mid-mount bracket instead of the rear side mount bracket, the motor has seen consistent use since June/July of 2012. The kit was originally a rear mount system that only got me one speed for the motor. The bracket was too soft and started bending under the torque. Probably should have gotten the mid-mount system in the first place. :p


Now that I'm out of a job, if the battery or motor ever bites the dust, I won't really ever be able to fix it. I might be able to eventually replace the motor after a few months, but if the battery dies on me, that's the end of my ebike adventure. Just don't see ever being able to drop $300 into a new one. So hopefully it will last me another year or two (not sure how long it's supposed to last. It's already out lasted my SLAs by a lot). It's already survived through it's first winter, so it's running great thus far. :D

EDIT:

Forgot to mention that the freewheel crankset was not something I got from GNG. I order that off the sikebikeparts website as the shipping from GNG was too expensive for me at the time I got the new mid-mount bracket to convert the kit over to a mid-drive system. The pedal cranks, freewheel adapter, chain guard, and crank axle were acquired from that site. The bolts that hold the 36tooth crank cog to the freewheel have since been replaced by new ones from my local Wal-mart as the threading on the originals got stripped and the bolts kept getting lose which could get dangerous and jam the crank cog with the right side pedal and cause the motor to transfer the torque into the pedals suddenly (one end of the bolt would stick out too far and hit the pedal crank). It would be just as bad as the freewheel freezing up suddenly. One day I started hearing a knocking noise and felt the pedals jerk a little with every chain wheel revolution. At the time I thought the freewheel was about to fail, so I paid close attention to it as I got home. As soon as I felt it jerk, I pulled my feat off the pedals real quick. Good thing I did, because the loose bolt fully engaged the crank and the pedals were spinning at the full speed that the motor was driving the chain! That could have probably taken out my ankles can cause a whole mess of other troubles if I hadn't been paying attention to it! So I got all those bolts replaced real quick. Turned out the freewheel was fine. Phew!

My next worry is the seat post, It's starting to sag from the weight of the battery. (probably from hitting some bumps on the road) and I have already rotated it around and reversed the seat and seat rack to get it back up. (It sagged down far enough that the tire was hitting the seat post rack when ever hitting a small bump).

If it sags down again after I had rotated it, I will get it replaced. Last thing I need is for that whole seat and seat rack assembly to snap off while I'm riding it. That would be a million times worse then having the crank freewheel suddenly seize up. The battery is only 14 pounds, but I suppose hitting some bumps a little too fast can put some serous g-forces on that seat post with the battery/rack swaying up and down from bumps I hit.

Bike is starting to rack up some serious mileage, so just like an old car, some things are just going to start failing on me. But as long as that motor and battery holds up, I won't have any major problems. :D
 
tncscooters = "Tennessee Scooters". They ship promptly and are the real deal.
 
I'll look and see if they have a "half twist throttle". I've had more time to think about this and decided to keep a twist type throttle, But instead go with a half version.

The one I have now is already a "half twist" in the sense that I twist it half way to get full throttle. I mean half twist as in half in size and open on the end so that the handle bar passes through with a second rubber grip on the exposed handle bar. It would be less bulky and easier to deal with. I think thumb throttle + thumb shifter might be a bad combination now that I have been looking around on google.

If tncscooters doesn't have one of these then I'm open to suggestions on where else to find one. ;)

The current one had too short of a wire + the fact I'm constantly worried about the bike falling on it's side at some point in the future and hitting the end of that throttle and that could easily brake it. A half version would mean the impact force just hits the handle bar instead so no damage would be done. :D

EDIT:

Looked and website didn't have one. :(

Any recommendations?

I need one that looks like this:

halfthrottleexample.jpg


That's a random one I picked off eBay. But can't use eBay right now due to unpaid seller fees I haven't taken care of yet. :p

As before, I would prefer one without LEDs and stop button as I just want a simple one. But I'll take whatever you dig up so long as it's a half effect throttle intended for a 36v controller.
 
http://www.bmsbattery.com/accessory/395-thumb-level-throttle.html
Shipping might be relatively expensive, so have a look to see if they have anything else you want,
 
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