Toseven DM02 or Tongsheng TSDZ8?

[maxwolfie]

Looking for a budget mid drive kit with torque sensor to go on my trail MTB.

The DM02 is about $719 AUD shipped whilst the TSDZ8 is slightly cheaper at about $639 AUD shipped.

I still haven’t completely ruled out the TSDZ2B either, which is quite a bit cheaper at about $417 AUD shipped.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

DM02 has very advanced display where you can adjust a lot of settings regarding motor. Torque sensor sensitivity can be tweaked, number of PAS levels , power limits , motor assist level and so on.

On other hand TSDZ8 is very locked down. You can't tweak anything! So you have to accept how everything was setup by some guy in factory. TSDZ8 also uses the same outdated torque sensor like in TSDZ2B.

 

[Az.]

I had similar dilemma recently and chose TSDZ8 (and TSDZ2B) for few reasons:
- Tongsheng is on the market for a long time.
- Available in UK from reputable seller
- Road legal

On the other hand Toseven is a startup company, which made some noise over a year ago and then disappeared. Their motors are back in stock in China for last couple of weeks, but nothing in UK. Not road legal in UK. I wish them all the best, but they don't inspire confidence.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Road legal? What's that? 25km/h max speed, 250W and no throttle? You can configure DM02 to be street legal as well. You just go to settings , change few options and done. DM02 does not even come with throttle.

 

[Az.]

Road legal? What's that? 25km/h max speed, 250W and no throttle? You can configure DM02 to be street legal as well. You just go to settings , change few options and done. DM02 does not even come with throttle.

Don't be funny. You can't change settings in controller and make for example 1000W motor legal. Motor must be rated 250W by manufacturer.

Edit: On the other hand once you have motor rated 250W you can go to settings and make some changes. So for example it is legal to have 48V motor (rated 250W) set to 20A.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Don't be funny. You can't change settings in controller and make for example 1000W motor legal. Motor must be rated 250W by manufacturer.

Yes you can. See cyc photon. They have specific profiles in the app for EU and Japan.

PHOTON CYC Motor User Manual

Discover the PHOTON CYC Motor user manual, featuring safety precautions, technical specifications, installation instructions, maintenance guidelines, warranty details, and contact information. Get support from CYC MOTOR via email or phone. Ensure proper setup and use with this comprehensive guide.

manuals.plus

TSDZ8 is even less "legal" than DM02. TSDZ8 is a 750W rated motor

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...9Si6NTcz&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

while DM02 is also available as 350W

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...DnRpiH75&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

 

[Az.]

Yes you can. See cyc photon. They have specific profiles in the app for EU and Japan.

You are wrong. To be road legal in UK motor must be continuous rated power 250W or less as specified by manufacturer.

https://www.flecc.co.uk/m/EN15194%20document.pdf

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

You are wrong. To be road legal in UK motor must be continuous rated power 250W or less as specified by manufacturer.

https://www.flecc.co.uk/m/EN15194%20document.pdf

LOL. So this means that euro ebikes imported from EU to brexitland are now illegal? If you didn't know BOSCH,BROSE,SHIMANO motors use ALOT MORE power than 250W in the highest asisst level.

Ebike Motor Power Curve Comparison Chart: BOSCH, Yamaha, Shimano, Brose

Ebike Motor Power Curve Comparison Chart. This test result was leaked recently and has been a topic of conversation in the ebike world for the past few weeks. It shows the power curves of Bosch Performance, Bosch Percormance CX, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose motors. I was at a dealer event for...

forums.electricbikereview.com

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Your TSDZ8 motor is just a regular 750W motor with glued sticker from aliexpress

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-250w-sticker.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.search.0

 

[Az.]

Your TSDZ8 motor is just a regular 750W motor with glued sticker from aliexpress

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-250w-sticker.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.search.0

My TSDZ8 is rated 250W by manufacturer and sticker was applied by Tongsheng.

Brose, Bosch, Yamaha motors are legal in UK and in Poland as they are rated 250W. I don't think you understand what rated power is and it is main reason why you are so confused. I gave you a link, you are most welcome to read it.

CYC motor is completely illegal in UK.

 

[Matze_Senpai]

i would be interested to see a comparison between the new TSDZ8 and the DM02 motor.
i would say the looks go to the tsdz8, its more modern design compared to the lazy copy paste design from dm02 .
but i think dm02 has advantage on the battery voltages i think it works from 24v to 60v batterys ? i can't confirm this though.
im not really sure what i would choose between these 2 motors, i think both have the potential to be great it just depends on how much the user can configure so right now i think the dm02 is the better choice but in future the tsdz8 could also become good i think

 

[raylo32]

I have a Photon now but I had really good luck with my old TSDZ2 that I ran stock and on OSF. It gets badmouthed a lot but I had no issues with the torque sensor or any mechanical part. The only real problem was heat management for those who expected it to run full power continuously, which of course, is totally unnecessary to ride at 20+ MPH (you do have to pedal some), unless you are on long very steep hills where you needed to be more careful. The modifications for cooling many of us did really helped with that.

The TSDZ8 has more mass and seems to be designed to alleviate the heat management issues which will greatly improve this motor. How successful they have been, IDK yet because I haven't seen any detailed tests or reports here. But I wouldn't hesitate to try one of these. And they are cheap, so if you don't like it you can always try something else.

The ToSeven motors look promising, too, although they haven't been out for long so they are sort of unproven. But again, cheap, so trying one would not be unreasonably risky.

 

[Zambam]

TSDZ8 also uses the same outdated torque sensor like in TSDZ2B.

Is this the same torque sensor setup from TSDZ2 from Tongsheng? Where are the torque sensors located in Toseven, Bafeng, Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano mid drive motors. Who has the best torque sensing system in the final product and what sets one apart from the other?

 

[Belfast_Blank_Bullitt]

i had to replace the TSDZ2 sensor twice in its first week, supplied by Pswpower. Im a cyclist formost; i think it may have bee the dead weight of a heavy cargobike + decent human effort that casued it to fail fast, but it did ride well/feel quite good, when it worked, but i switched from heavy dutch cargobike to human powered Bullitt to negotiate short steep hills.
I "hope" T07 DM01/02 dont use the same torque sensor tech.. would be an affordable enough to give it a go and see.

Has anyone stripped down and disassembled a TOseven DM01 & DM02???

Still looks like the stock T07's have an awful Q factor though..

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

i had to replace the TSDZ2 sensor twice in its first week, supplied by Pswpower. Im a cyclist formost; i think it may have bee the dead weight of a heavy cargobike + decent human effort that casued it to fail fast, but it did ride well/feel quite good, when it worked, but i switched from heavy dutch cargobike to human powered Bullitt to negotiate short steep hills.
I "hope" T07 DM01/02 dont use the same torque sensor tech.. would be an affordable enough to give it a go and see.

Has anyone stripped down and disassembled a TOseven DM01 & DM02???

Still looks like the stock T07's have an awful Q factor though..

 

[Belfast_Blank_Bullitt]

Thanks for this!

I bit the bullitt (tenuous cargbike pun intended) and ordered a unit yesterday on Pswpower. What was the motivation for the disassembly? - i caught "replace some parts" in audio towards end?

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Thanks for this!

I bit the bullitt (tenuous cargbike pun intended) and ordered a unit yesterday on Pswpower. What was the motivation for the disassembly? - i caught "replace some parts" in audio towards end?

DO NOT BUY TOSEVEN MOTORS ON PSWPOWER!
Reasons!
1) You get motor with outdated and buggy firmware!
2) You do not get programing cable to update to latest firmware. Difference between old and new firmware is like a night and day!

Always buy from official toseven's store on aliexpress

https://pl.aliexpress.com/store/1102731761/pages/all-items.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.2.18ce5cd3RiQah3&shop_sortType=bestmatch_sort

1) Motor will always have latest firmware
2) You always get programing cable!

This gentle man made the same mistake and bought DM01 from pswpower as well. Motor was shipped with terrible old firmware. Also he had to order a programming cable from toseven to perform an update.

 

[PM128]

DO NOT BUY TOSEVEN MOTORS ON PSWPOWER!
Reasons!
1) You get motor with outdated and buggy firmware!
2) You do not get programing cable to update to latest firmware. Difference between old and new firmware is like a night and day!

Always buy from official toseven's store on aliexpress

https://pl.aliexpress.com/store/1102731761/pages/all-items.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.2.18ce5cd3RiQah3&shop_sortType=bestmatch_sort

1) Motor will always have latest firmware
2) You always get programing cable!

This gentle man made the same mistake and bought DM01 from pswpower as well. Motor was shipped with terrible old firmware. Also he had to order a programming cable from toseven to perform an update.

Hello Atak_Snajpera, I'm looking to buy DM02 but Aliexpress shows the store page empty. Maybe because AE uses Geolocation for restrictions, prices and availability, I live unfortunately in Germany but it may show something else for you in Poland. Could you recommend some other online shops where I could possibly order the DM02 kit from?

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Hello Atak_Snajpera, I'm looking to buy DM02 but Aliexpress shows the store page empty. Maybe because AE uses Geolocation for restrictions, prices and availability, I live unfortunately in Germany but it may show something else for you in Poland. Could you recommend some other online shops where I could possibly order the DM02 kit from?

From Poland I get full listing. Maybe you could find some way to send unit to Poland and then back to Germany? Some kind of real mail proxy


Or maybe you have some friends/ family in Poland?

You may also try asking them If they could order DM02 on your behalf

Electric bikes accessories and parts | ebikestuff.eu

Parts and accessories for electric bikes, scooters and electric motorcycles. We also have battery pack building materials and accessories in our offer. We modify Tongsheng TSDZ2/TSDZ2 motors with our dedicated parts

ebikestuff.eu

 

[PM128]

From Poland I get full listing. Maybe you could find some way to send unit to Poland and then back to Germany? Some kind of real mail proxy


Or maybe you have some friends/ family in Poland?

You may also try asking them If they could order DM02 on your behalf

Electric bikes accessories and parts | ebikestuff.eu

Parts and accessories for electric bikes, scooters and electric motorcycles. We also have battery pack building materials and accessories in our offer. We modify Tongsheng TSDZ2/TSDZ2 motors with our dedicated parts

ebikestuff.eu

I wish I had such option. The double shipping costs may then also render the purchase not so cheap any more. So I may just wait some time maybe pswpower will get the stock with updated FW later on.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I wish I had such option. The double shipping costs may then also render the purchase not so cheap any more. So I may just wait some time maybe pswpower will get the stock with updated FW later on.

It is very weird that Toseven motors can not be shipped to Germany?! France is fine, Austria is fine , Italy is fine. Holand is fine. Heck! They even ship to Ukraine and Russia.


Try manually write an email to them here
info@to7motor.com
I know that they also take orders via email because some people already used that method of purchase.

 

[PM128]

Ok thanks, I assume you mean To7motor direct factory shipping. I did already earlier, to liying@to7motor.com. Actually she recommended me before a dealer in Germany ebike-solutions but on their web site they don't advertise selling To7 kits. And their configured sets seem to be quite pricey, out of my budget. And, since they make ebikes in this restricted part of the World, all over their web are those legalities "no throttle, 250W max, 25km/h" which I truly hate. Yes they do offer "on private land/roads" some PRO solutions (eg using BBSHD or some other hub motors) but I'd rather buy directly from China. I'm just waiting for To7's reply.

 

[Belfast_Blank_Bullitt]

DO NOT BUY TOSEVEN MOTORS ON PSWPOWER!
Reasons!
1) You get motor with outdated and buggy firmware!
2) You do not get programing cable to update to latest firmware. Difference between old and new firmware is like a night and day!

Always buy from official toseven's store on aliexpress

https://pl.aliexpress.com/store/1102731761/pages/all-items.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.2.18ce5cd3RiQah3&shop_sortType=bestmatch_sort

1) Motor will always have latest firmware
2) You always get programing cable!

This gentle man made the same mistake and bought DM01 from pswpower as well. Motor was shipped with terrible old firmware. Also he had to order a programming cable from toseven to perform an update.

Hi Atak,
thankfully im an electronics engineer with numerous debug and programming cables sitting around the lab, so i got off lightly...
Could you elaborate as to the reasons for your Disassembly?

 

[PM128]

Damned I wish I could buy the To7 kit from Aliexpress but the Georestrictions prevent me to do so. I was already thinking to use VPN and create new profile there like from some other country, but it may not work in the end since the shipping address may then appear as "no-go". I wish I lived in China...

 

[Az.]

And, since they make ebikes in this restricted part of the World, all over their web are those legalities "no throttle, 250W max, 25km/h" which I truly hate.

Strange. From outside Germany looks like one of most liberal countries when it comes to e-bikes.

Laws and Regulations Regarding E-Bikes in Germany

Explore this guide to discover the essential E-Bike regulations in Germany, ensuring a safe and compliant ride with your electric bicycle.

www.lemmofuture.com

250W rated power motor can usually take 1000W power from controller, which is a LOT and to be honest more than enough for ordinary cyclist. If you want more power and more speed, you always have s-pedelec class. All those regulations seem pretty reasonable to me.