Turnigy 80-100b w/halls not working

[shortcircuit911]

Hey Everybody, I bought a turnigy 80-100b motor and added hall sensors to it with no problem. When I run the motor with no load the motor spins up all the way. When I hook the motor to the chain with the wheel off the ground it will spin to 3/4 then cut off. If I try and put full load on the wheel the motor comes on for a second then cuts off. I checked the halls and they seem fine. I also hooked up a volt meter, and the voltage stayed at 38v even when the motor cut off. Then I hooked up 44v of lipo and it did the same thing. I tried all 36 different wiring combinations, and only this one works. I'm really out of ideas, and am hoping someone can help me out. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

You've run into the common peak current trip problem with the controller, assuming you're running a XieChang controller (i.e. one from Keywin, Lyen or a few other suppliers). Have you modded the controller for more current? If so, then I very strongly suspect it's just tripping out on peak current.

There are fixes, see this thread where we first discovered this problem: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16910&hilit=current+limit+infineon

Jeremy

 

[shortcircuit911]

Thanks for the reply Jeremy! I kind of suspected it was a controller issue, but had no idea what it may be. The controller is a bone stock 9 FET from ebikekit.com. I read the entire thread, and will try all the suggestions. I think I will solder the shunt first just to rule that out. If that doesn't work I will program it as if it were an 18 FET controller. If that doesn't work then I will add a 47k resistor to r43. Am I missing anything? This whole issue is really irritating and I just want to get this resolved because I want to go ride Any pointers would be appreciated.

 

[E-racer]

I wish I had an answer for you. If all else fails spring for a kelly! Glad you got the halls in successfully!

 

[gwhy!]

Thanks for the reply Jeremy! I kind of suspected it was a controller issue, but had no idea what it may be. The controller is a bone stock 9 FET from ebikekit.com. I read the entire thread, and will try all the suggestions. I think I will solder the shunt first just to rule that out. If that doesn't work I will program it as if it were an 18 FET controller. If that doesn't work then I will add a 47k resistor to r43. Am I missing anything? This whole issue is really irritating and I just want to get this resolved because I want to go ride Any pointers would be appreciated.

Be very carefully soldering the shunt, as you say its a stock controller it would not take much to put it over the max current that a stock controller can take. I dont think just soldering the shunt will resolve your problem you will need to also reprogram to make it work.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Thanks for the reply Jeremy! I kind of suspected it was a controller issue, but had no idea what it may be. The controller is a bone stock 9 FET from ebikekit.com. I read the entire thread, and will try all the suggestions. I think I will solder the shunt first just to rule that out. If that doesn't work I will program it as if it were an 18 FET controller. If that doesn't work then I will add a 47k resistor to r43. Am I missing anything? This whole issue is really irritating and I just want to get this resolved because I want to go ride Any pointers would be appreciated.

Changing the shunt resistance on a standard controller is, just as gwhy! says, a bit fraught, as these motors pull high enough peak phase currents as it is. If you've modded the controller to increase its peak current capability (i.e. changed the standard fairly high Rdson FETs for something a lot better) then lowering the shunt resistance is OK in moderation, but as you can get the same effect by reprogramming the controller, and as modding the shunt is a bit hit-and-miss, I'd say it's better to opt for reprogramming. Re-programming the controller may help the cutting out problem, but my guess is that you've hit the hardware peak over-current trip, so modding the hardware trip point would probably be the best fix.

Jeremy

 

[shortcircuit911]

Gentleman, thank you for the replies. Just an update, I soldered the shunt and got the same results as before. So you guys were right about that, but atleast we can count that out. I plan on soldering up a wiring harness tonight and reprogramming it. Hopefully I can test it tonight but it may be tommorrow before I can test. I will report back with the results.

 

[shortcircuit911]

Well I installed the software and harness to program the controller. I programmed the controller as an 18FET. I took my scooter outside and went for a quick ride and it seemed ok. I was rolling the throttle on slow and it was doing good. when I hammered it on it would cut out. I was very dumb about testing it and went for a ride with out the case on and I think I might have blown the controller. I was coming in and decided to get on it one more time. I hit the throttle and it pulled nice then died. The motor no longer turns What a bad way to end the night because I was really excited that it was working.Bummer

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Well I installed the software and harness to program the controller. I programmed the controller as an 18FET. I took my scooter outside and went for a quick ride and it seemed ok. I was rolling the throttle on slow and it was doing good. when I hammered it on it would cut out. I was very dumb about testing it and went for a ride with out the case on and I think I might have blown the controller. I was coming in and decided to get on it one more time. I hit the throttle and it pulled nice then died. The motor no longer turns What a bad way to end the night because I was really excited that it was working.Bummer

Now is the time to change the FETs for decent ones then, at least you gave the old ones a Viking funeral by running them with no heat sink.................. (the controller case is the FET heat sink - it's essential in helping to keep them cool).

The symptoms you describe are exactly those you get from high peak current tripping the current overload circuit. What happens is described in the thread linked to above. My recommendation would be to fit decent FETs, get rid of the solder on the shunt, programme the controller for safe battery and phase currents (for the new FETs) and do the mod to reduce the sensitivity of the peak current trip circuit.

Jeremy

 

[shortcircuit911]

Ya I think I will just end up replacing the FET's soon. It was definitely a crash and burn funeral for the FET's lol. For now I think I will just buy a 12 FET controller from Lyen. I will have to get some FET's , ditch the solder, and reprogram just like you suggested Jeremy. I should have the 12 FET by this weekend. I will post results soon. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[shortcircuit911]

Well my new 12FET will be here tomorrow since Lyen lives just across the bridge. So I'm really excited to see how it goes. Also does anyone know if it is ok to cut the threaded shaft intended for the prop on the outrunner? I'm not sure if it will affect the motor, but I really want to cut it. Anyway I'll post results soon.

 

[gwhy!]

Also does anyone know if it is ok to cut the threaded shaft intended for the prop on the outrunner? I'm not sure if it will affect the motor, but I really want to cut it. Anyway I'll post results soon.

Yes its ok to cut, but put the motor in a plastic bag and seal the bag so you only got the shaft that you want to cut poking out. The reasoning in doing this is to stop all the iron fillings entering the motor when you cut the shaft.

 

[AussieJester]

For now I think I will just buy a 12 FET controller from Lyen.

Ask Mr Lyen to buid you a 12fet 9infineon specced the same as mine, he had to order the fets special hopefully he ordered extras

KiM

 

[shortcircuit911]

I'm glad the shaft can be cut it is kind of in the way. I received the controller from lyen, and that thing is amazing! I'm still getting all the bugs out of my drive system so I only went to half throttle which was about 25 mph. I'm really excited to see what top speed is. The only issue I have is a slight alignment issue. Also I need to find a better way to get a sprocket bored out to 12mm. I ordered some 3/8" sprocket from mcmaster and drilled them. This works ok, but it wobbles a bit so I'm not satisfied. Anyway updates coming soon.