Likely all-for-naught...
unconventional ebike motors.
- Thread starter Skyler
- Start date
I ran dual motors like that as an experiment about 8 years ago. It was two of those 250W razor scooter motors. Rich people buy them for their kids and when the batteries shit the bed you see them out in the garbage. I ran two at 36V in parallel and they overheated. In series they ran ok on the flat.
Since 500W is good for 20 to 22 mph gearing and 1000W for about 28 mph gearing my gear ratio is perfect for that set up. Like I said it will run flawlessly. In fact two motors at 500W each have more surface area for heat dissipation than a single 1000W motor.
Since I have been running a 36V 1,000W chain at 43V with a 26 amp controller for about a year now with no issues I know it will work. My current gearing is.
It could even be an 11T sprocket. Not sure. I do know that the power output is 43V * 26 amp = 1,118.
Not absolutely sure though as It could be a 28 amp controller. It is a Chinese controller rated at 800W 36V. I am running 13S LIFEPO4.
On flat ground I beat a 50cc gas bike in the 1/8 mile and a 350W Bafang hub motor. Around here there are no steep hills Only slight inclines of moderate hills and it has no problem climbing them.. I will have to check but the bike is my daily commuter so not easy to count teeth for motor and wheel sprocket with the chain on.
I know it is fun to drive and keeps accelerating. I do not have a phone but believe it will do about 28 mph on the flat if I were to guess. If I were to travel to upstate NY or where there are steep hills I would take my 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor.
I think it is geared for 35 mph with a 60T wheel and 11T motor sprocket. I think the gearing for both ebikes are about the same but the brushless motor pulls harder as more low end torque. I have clocked it at 32.5 mph flat ground with a GPS speedometer app. I have not measured the 1,000W brush motor as my cell phone was stolen.
My 10S LTO pack is still balancing. Should be finished by tomorrow some time. I will then hook the 28V charger back up and probably balance again. It should be ready in a couple days.
The first test drive will be my full suspension with dual 30 amp controllers. A 1,500W rear hub with a 1,000W brush chain on the front. 55V of LTO.
I already tested the rear hub and clocked at 33.5 mph but never even hooked up the front chain. It has a custom modified chain tensioner. If the chain pops off I might take the motor off and put it on the front of the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor on the back.
The only point in a 24V build is the fact that most of the time I just need a simple cargo bike to haul beer and groceries and not really caring about top speed and no steep hells to worry about. If I get the 10S LTO pack going I wont even need a 24V bike right now as can run one of my 6S LTO packs with the 10S for 40V and just run one of my 36V ebikes. I have three.
1, - The 1,000W 36V brush 20"
2, The 26" Diamondback Outlook with dual 350W Bafangs
3. The 700C Giant Cypress Hybrid with the 26 Currie wheel pedal chain and 750W gear reduction motor with a 350W Bafang up front. It sports a single thumb throttle like the dual Bafangs on the Diamondback.
just wanted a 24V 1,000W set up for short distance and a single battery for less weight and easier charging.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
Since 500W is good for 20 to 22 mph gearing and 1000W for about 28 mph gearing my gear ratio is perfect for that set up. Like I said it will run flawlessly. In fact two motors at 500W each have more surface area for heat dissipation than a single 1000W motor.
Since I have been running a 36V 1,000W chain at 43V with a 26 amp controller for about a year now with no issues I know it will work. My current gearing is.
It could even be an 11T sprocket. Not sure. I do know that the power output is 43V * 26 amp = 1,118.
Not absolutely sure though as It could be a 28 amp controller. It is a Chinese controller rated at 800W 36V. I am running 13S LIFEPO4.
On flat ground I beat a 50cc gas bike in the 1/8 mile and a 350W Bafang hub motor. Around here there are no steep hills Only slight inclines of moderate hills and it has no problem climbing them.. I will have to check but the bike is my daily commuter so not easy to count teeth for motor and wheel sprocket with the chain on.
I know it is fun to drive and keeps accelerating. I do not have a phone but believe it will do about 28 mph on the flat if I were to guess. If I were to travel to upstate NY or where there are steep hills I would take my 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor.
I think it is geared for 35 mph with a 60T wheel and 11T motor sprocket. I think the gearing for both ebikes are about the same but the brushless motor pulls harder as more low end torque. I have clocked it at 32.5 mph flat ground with a GPS speedometer app. I have not measured the 1,000W brush motor as my cell phone was stolen.
My 10S LTO pack is still balancing. Should be finished by tomorrow some time. I will then hook the 28V charger back up and probably balance again. It should be ready in a couple days.
The first test drive will be my full suspension with dual 30 amp controllers. A 1,500W rear hub with a 1,000W brush chain on the front. 55V of LTO.
I already tested the rear hub and clocked at 33.5 mph but never even hooked up the front chain. It has a custom modified chain tensioner. If the chain pops off I might take the motor off and put it on the front of the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor on the back.
The only point in a 24V build is the fact that most of the time I just need a simple cargo bike to haul beer and groceries and not really caring about top speed and no steep hells to worry about. If I get the 10S LTO pack going I wont even need a 24V bike right now as can run one of my 6S LTO packs with the 10S for 40V and just run one of my 36V ebikes. I have three.
1, - The 1,000W 36V brush 20"
2, The 26" Diamondback Outlook with dual 350W Bafangs
3. The 700C Giant Cypress Hybrid with the 26 Currie wheel pedal chain and 750W gear reduction motor with a 350W Bafang up front. It sports a single thumb throttle like the dual Bafangs on the Diamondback.
just wanted a 24V 1,000W set up for short distance and a single battery for less weight and easier charging.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
Attachments
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The way I want to mount it is so I can slide the motors closer together to remove chain and service tire and push them apart to tighten chain. I am still in development stage. I have a friend who specializes in gas motors so if I need such a thing he can help me out. I help him out with storage for free and we work on bikes together. He does gas and I specialize in electric.
Like I mentioned before I am desiring a 24V set up. A 24V 1,000W motor don't exist. Only the 900W Currie which was discussed earlier in this post is really not a 900W motor. It cant handle the amps rated. Two 24V Unite motors can .
Thanks.
Skyler.
Throughout this lengthy thread, many intelligent ES builders have politely contributed (some repeatedly), viable information, helpful suggestions and verifiable facts, but you continue to shun each and every one. So why, pray tell, are you still here... if you have all the answers?
Papa out.
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Maybe someone can learn from me. I have built many e bikes over the years.
Not everyone is a veteran builder. I am here to share as well as learn. I do not have all the answers. I can still learn different ways. An old dog can learn new tricks. Some of my builds can use improvement. Not all are perfect but most of them run.
The 10S LTO is still balancing. I am toping off the charge on the LIFEPO4 packs. I still need to work on mounting 16S later on at least two of the 36V e bikes.
I am traveling into the city today and can look for a camera. A Cannon mini pocket camera would work for taking pictures and posting. I think if my dual motor set up works well then about anybody could do it.
If 10S LTO can go 8 or 10 miles and charge fast it could be a viable option as way safer than lion 18650 cells and should last 100 times longer.
I usually build the bike first then consider my battery options. This next build is opposite. I am building a 24V battery and building the e bike to work with that.
Not everyone has or wants a 36V or 48V build. Especially if they already own a 24V working battery. Quality batteries are not cheap and fake ass lion is dangerous. Even two 10 or 12 Ah SLAs could power a 24V e bike for awhile if it is all someone has.
So far those 24V LIFEPO4 batteries from Battery Hookup have been working great for my friend Tom. My best guess if they did 7 or 8 miles on a charge from what he told me last night at his house. He fully charged them with the proper 29.2V charger and is going to his sisters house today. I can use google maps to calculate the distance.
If they do go 8 miles for $40 each I will order four for my 48V e bikes. Tom has two and I showed him how to parallel charge them and hook up in series to run. They are 24 amps so will need four for a 1,500W motor. Two are good up to 750W.
The way I see it if I can save one person from a fire running cheap lithium ion then I have done my job. A single 24V 500W motor is only about $60 and two 24V batteries are < $100 shipped. Perfect for a beginner who needs reliable transportation to work and back or to the grocery store.
I just got back with my 36V Unite and was looking at it and think it is a 10T 8mm motor sprocket and know it is a 62T 8mm wheel sprocket. The bike runs great and not really that loud. My only regret was not using two motors on the back like what I plan on doing with the 24V motors. The thing is though I would only need them for really steep hills. It climbs small hills with no problem at all.
I can prove everything I say when I get a camera. I have no reason to lie. I post because like I said I like to state facts and I do read what people post but do not always believe people who say YOU CANT do that or DO NOT do that because I have proven over and over thru the years that I CAN.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
Skyler out.
Not everyone is a veteran builder. I am here to share as well as learn. I do not have all the answers. I can still learn different ways. An old dog can learn new tricks. Some of my builds can use improvement. Not all are perfect but most of them run.
The 10S LTO is still balancing. I am toping off the charge on the LIFEPO4 packs. I still need to work on mounting 16S later on at least two of the 36V e bikes.
I am traveling into the city today and can look for a camera. A Cannon mini pocket camera would work for taking pictures and posting. I think if my dual motor set up works well then about anybody could do it.
If 10S LTO can go 8 or 10 miles and charge fast it could be a viable option as way safer than lion 18650 cells and should last 100 times longer.
I usually build the bike first then consider my battery options. This next build is opposite. I am building a 24V battery and building the e bike to work with that.
Not everyone has or wants a 36V or 48V build. Especially if they already own a 24V working battery. Quality batteries are not cheap and fake ass lion is dangerous. Even two 10 or 12 Ah SLAs could power a 24V e bike for awhile if it is all someone has.
So far those 24V LIFEPO4 batteries from Battery Hookup have been working great for my friend Tom. My best guess if they did 7 or 8 miles on a charge from what he told me last night at his house. He fully charged them with the proper 29.2V charger and is going to his sisters house today. I can use google maps to calculate the distance.
If they do go 8 miles for $40 each I will order four for my 48V e bikes. Tom has two and I showed him how to parallel charge them and hook up in series to run. They are 24 amps so will need four for a 1,500W motor. Two are good up to 750W.
The way I see it if I can save one person from a fire running cheap lithium ion then I have done my job. A single 24V 500W motor is only about $60 and two 24V batteries are < $100 shipped. Perfect for a beginner who needs reliable transportation to work and back or to the grocery store.
I just got back with my 36V Unite and was looking at it and think it is a 10T 8mm motor sprocket and know it is a 62T 8mm wheel sprocket. The bike runs great and not really that loud. My only regret was not using two motors on the back like what I plan on doing with the 24V motors. The thing is though I would only need them for really steep hills. It climbs small hills with no problem at all.
I can prove everything I say when I get a camera. I have no reason to lie. I post because like I said I like to state facts and I do read what people post but do not always believe people who say YOU CANT do that or DO NOT do that because I have proven over and over thru the years that I CAN.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
Skyler out.
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Chalo
100 TW
I think you'd be much better off using two separate chain drives for your two motors, which would also let you use smaller pitch with more teeth and more degrees of sprocket engagement. You could still adjust/detach the chains with sliding motor mounts.
Is he a chainsmoking rotten alcoholic like the stinky gas bike guys I've met? That seems to be a system. Lose your DL for the last time, put a two cycle smog machine on your bike. Slam the seat all the way down to the frame, ride to the corner store for a bum beer and a pack of no-name cancer sticks. Go back home and fix whatever went wrong with the bike. Repeat.
uhmwpolyethylene
100 W
carrying a trailer with a 40lb gas generator and fuel to power your ebike is ascended, diesel-electric cargo ship type energy
Hybrid ebike
ok folks here is the hybrid ebike.
I forget if i alluded earlier but the reason for this is i want like 200 mile range ebike at 25+mph, which is not possible without a generator. also, a engine powered bike is illegal in my state so i had to make a hybrid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-GJbPhIl4 its a little slow at 25mph...
endless-sphere.com
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yep. That 'is a perfect description of him.
He might make it a day or two without working on it but that is about it. Those gas bikes are always breaking. Why I don't mess with them..I wll probably mount the motors just like I did the single. motor on the rear rack. but use two side by side. I just have to remove two motor bolts and unscrew two steel clamps. The kind that use a flat head screw driver to tighten and loosen. I have pictures somewhere on that build. It is a different forum but will look.
I am capable of mounting a front motor to the front forks but it makes front brakes difficult and a large cargo basket. Also I already have three all wheel drive e bikes. I want the 24V build to be as simple as possible. 500W would work but 1,000W is better. I like some power when needed.
Thanks.
Skyler.
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Have you ever posted here under a different name? Seems like I banned a guy that acted like you about a year ago. Don't go crazy on us again.
Please.
Rhymes with "fakecurtains?"
I am not discussing any of that. I am Skyler. It is as simple as that. I prefer to stay on topic and will never discuss any personal business. here on ES. I hope that is ok moving forwards.
It really looks unconventional just like the name of this post. Unconventional motors. It is a < $20 Wall Mart rear rack. It is re reinforced and I simply lined up the sprockets and drilled two holes down thru the rack.
I also drilled two holes thru the sides and ran carriage bolts. for the steel clamps. Notice the nuts under the motor mount. It allows me to adjust chain tension. I use a spacer under the side the clamps hold under the motor mount so it is the same height as the other side.
The point I am making is I rarely need to re tighten the chain. It is very reliable and I have put at least 400 miles on it now. Maybe > 500. I have been running it for about 6 months I think.. It is a fairly easy build. A little work but not impossible even for a novice. That 36V 1,000W motor runs around $80. I think that one was closer to $60. Here is the gearing.
The 24V version is < $60 now and good for 20 mph for a single motor which would require a 72T sprocket for 8mm chain and 10T motor sprocket.
I think I CAN mount two 24V 500W motors the same way as I did the single 36V motor. Side by side and order the 45 amp controller from electric scooter parts. The 9T will work but I have the option of running 30V for 1,250W total so will be geared much better with 8T motor sprockets.
I already have the 20" wheel with a 44T - #410 pedal chain sprocket I got from my friend who does gas bikes.
45 amps * 25V = 1,125W
45 amps * 30V = 1,350W.
I should have a camera up and running soon I hope. The pictures I posted were when I had a cell phone. It was stolen after that and can not find my mini pocket camera. I can shoot some on board videos when I get my new phone. This way you can all see the performance in real time.
I also have a meter that measures power , current and volts.. It also displays peak and average values. That along with a speedometer app, will have enough information to calculate efficiency of the system. I like to prove what I post so that should work. I also like to share my builds in case someone wants to build something similar.
I am going to check on my 10S LTO pack. I hooked up two active 1.2 amp balancers as well as the 5 in 1 battery checker / balancers. Also a 28V 2 amp charger. It takes a long time to get the cells balanced but once they are they should only need minimal balancing when re charging.
Also I really wont even need to build a 24V e bike right now as I just measured the 6S and 10S LTO packs and they will fit on the 36V - 20" bike.. I just need to modify the rack and add a bolt for re enforcement. My 6S LiPo charger can charge 6S LTO
4.2V * 4 = 16.8V / 6 = 2.8V.
2.5V * 16 = 40V.
3::45 AM.
I mounted the batteries and will work but a lot heavier than a 10S pack. About 36 to 37 pounds compared to 20 or 21 pounds. The 24V build is still happening. I will have to live with it for now. I think the 13S - LIFEPO4 that was on it is at least 10 pounds lighter than 16S LTO.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
It really looks unconventional just like the name of this post. Unconventional motors. It is a < $20 Wall Mart rear rack. It is re reinforced and I simply lined up the sprockets and drilled two holes down thru the rack.
I also drilled two holes thru the sides and ran carriage bolts. for the steel clamps. Notice the nuts under the motor mount. It allows me to adjust chain tension. I use a spacer under the side the clamps hold under the motor mount so it is the same height as the other side.
The point I am making is I rarely need to re tighten the chain. It is very reliable and I have put at least 400 miles on it now. Maybe > 500. I have been running it for about 6 months I think.. It is a fairly easy build. A little work but not impossible even for a novice. That 36V 1,000W motor runs around $80. I think that one was closer to $60. Here is the gearing.
The 24V version is < $60 now and good for 20 mph for a single motor which would require a 72T sprocket for 8mm chain and 10T motor sprocket.
I think I CAN mount two 24V 500W motors the same way as I did the single 36V motor. Side by side and order the 45 amp controller from electric scooter parts. The 9T will work but I have the option of running 30V for 1,250W total so will be geared much better with 8T motor sprockets.
I already have the 20" wheel with a 44T - #410 pedal chain sprocket I got from my friend who does gas bikes.
45 amps * 25V = 1,125W
45 amps * 30V = 1,350W.
I should have a camera up and running soon I hope. The pictures I posted were when I had a cell phone. It was stolen after that and can not find my mini pocket camera. I can shoot some on board videos when I get my new phone. This way you can all see the performance in real time.
I also have a meter that measures power , current and volts.. It also displays peak and average values. That along with a speedometer app, will have enough information to calculate efficiency of the system. I like to prove what I post so that should work. I also like to share my builds in case someone wants to build something similar.
I am going to check on my 10S LTO pack. I hooked up two active 1.2 amp balancers as well as the 5 in 1 battery checker / balancers. Also a 28V 2 amp charger. It takes a long time to get the cells balanced but once they are they should only need minimal balancing when re charging.
Also I really wont even need to build a 24V e bike right now as I just measured the 6S and 10S LTO packs and they will fit on the 36V - 20" bike.. I just need to modify the rack and add a bolt for re enforcement. My 6S LiPo charger can charge 6S LTO
4.2V * 4 = 16.8V / 6 = 2.8V.
2.5V * 16 = 40V.
3::45 AM.
I mounted the batteries and will work but a lot heavier than a 10S pack. About 36 to 37 pounds compared to 20 or 21 pounds. The 24V build is still happening. I will have to live with it for now. I think the 13S - LIFEPO4 that was on it is at least 10 pounds lighter than 16S LTO.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
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Chalo
100 TW
Where I am, it would fall under "motor assisted scooter". Also, cops seems to have stopped doing any traffic code enforcement at all, except when it conveniently coincides with their racial profiling. That hasn't really changed any cycling behaviors, but motorists have become much more anarchic.
lnanek
1 kW
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2022
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Hmm, not here in Cali. There's no standing platform:
www.dmv.ca.gov
I guess it must be a moped, but the page says those need a motorcycle license, registration, and plates.
Motorcycles, Mopeds, and Scooters - California DMV
What’s the difference between a motorcycle and a motor-driven cycle? Is a moped the same as scooter?
www.dmv.ca.gov
I guess it must be a moped, but the page says those need a motorcycle license, registration, and plates.
Chalo
100 TW
Hmm, not here in Cali. There's no standing platform:
Motorcycles, Mopeds, and Scooters - California DMV
What’s the difference between a motorcycle and a motor-driven cycle? Is a moped the same as scooter?
In earlier times when Texas had its own unique and weird e-bike definition, the way the statute was written you could have all the power you wanted as long as 1) you only got all of it when pedaling and 2) the bike weighed less than 100 pounds. Since I was big and heavy, my cargo bikes were big and heavy, and my motors and batteries were big and heavy, I sought a workaround for the weight limit.
Texas's definition for "motor assisted scooter" says it must have
I was prepared to argue that my platform pedals constituted such a deck when I stood up on them, but I was also ready to build rear axle mounted "shelves" that would meet a stricter interpretation of the law. But then our e-bike definitions changed, and it also became clear that nobody cared anyway.
In the OP's case since there's no pedal drive at all, the bottom bracket could be used to attach footboards, and then it would be an electric scooter.
I am not sure what that would even look like. It wont be needed though.
The chain wont come off. It will loosen up maybe once in a blue moon and might need tightening but has not happened since I changed the flat tire about two weeks ago. It is a solid reliable build.
The front mount I did on my full suspension I am not sure about as the first time I attempted mounting it in that way. I did front chain drives before but with the motor further down on the fork.
This one mounts to the bracket that the brakes mount to, That large steel plate and there was enough room to add extra supports with the steel clamps. It is very unconventional and until I test it experimental. Since the motor is in a fixed position and cant be moved at all for chain adjustment.
The solution was my friend who does gas builds and modifies chain tensioners. I also worked on it so it would work and have strength. A simple spring was not enough so can only describe it in pictures. If it does not work then I wont bother. I will just take it off and re install it the way I did before or install it on a different bike.
I had no choice but to go with the thin #25 chain I hate for proper gear reduction. It sports an 89T wheel and 10T motor I think. Not sure let me check. I know it is geared close to 30 mph.
I think it is a 10T but could be an 11T geared for 33 mph. Not sure but if I were to guess it is a 10T.
Top speed measured for the rear 1,500W hub is 33.5 mph ((advertised for 35). If it is an 11T it is the same speed as the rear hub but I think it is a 10T and will assist the rear hub up to 30 mph which works for me.
Looking for a camera.
Thanks.
Skyler out.
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Well, Ok but remember do not post anything personal. I want you to stick to questions only. Do not ever post any advice.
You will get no second chance this time.
Nick
Some states are more lenient than others. Also in some states I think it goes by county. But not sure. I think cities and townships might be able to make their own rules.
Where I am now there are all kinds of gas and electric rolling around. Only the mini bikes with > 80cc get pulled over.
e bikes never get stopped and in the 4+ years I lived here a cop has never gave me a second look. Most of my e bikes don't pedal.
I am just hoping my front mount chain on my full suspension will work. I am new to chain tensioners but suspect they come in all sizes for different chains. modification and fabrication is an art / special skill to make something work that is not designed to do so.
Safety is good but still do not know how such an apparatus would work. I think some motorcycles might have them. Not sure. If the chain does not come off then I am wondering what safety factor you are referring to. ????
If you could be more precise. Maybe a Vespa or other electric scooters have them. I never really gave it much thought.
I am Skyler and thanks for posting.
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I will be testing out that front unconventional motor soon. The experimental 1,000W front chain drive with the brand new 1,500W hub kit in the rear I clocked at 33.5 mph a few months ago. The big question is , if the front chain is going to work or not ? I will soon find out.
I probably will not be building the 24V motors as am currently running my 36V e bikes with 16S LTO and do not need a 24V set up. Maybe some time in the distant future but not any time soon.
Until then . I could use some feed back over on my other post. if anyone is interested , please post there.
LFP reverse polarity. I am having complicated balancing issues with LTO. It is about LFP but close enough to be on topic.
Thanks.
Skyler.
I probably will not be building the 24V motors as am currently running my 36V e bikes with 16S LTO and do not need a 24V set up. Maybe some time in the distant future but not any time soon.
Until then . I could use some feed back over on my other post. if anyone is interested , please post there.
LFP reverse polarity. I am having complicated balancing issues with LTO. It is about LFP but close enough to be on topic.
Thanks.
Skyler.
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The front is the big question, a fwd on a road with the coming snow and ice, however I slipped on some loose sand once and obtained minor road rash that I can brag about later in life. I hope the throttle action is smooth and the ramp is not sharp like with most generic throttles, any twitch on any slippery surface but ice specifically, starting off or cornering you have to ride the bike different.
Different methods and styles of riding for a rear vs front, the rear is more forgiving and handles better imho. I have tried both but with a simpler, easier and cheaper method....... small, cheap hub motors, keep the weight low not high.
Do you ever try to pedal and not use the throttle for physical fitness and cardio?
I find proper gearing is important, but I like 3x7 or 8's because the price of their parts are good, while 9 spd components are a little more $, we only really need just a few gears when ebiking, so a 1x5 would be fine, but the choice of gears is a personal choice, I like 22x34 and 42x11 but am leaning towards 48x13 for less wear on the 11t rear gear.
Be safe, I read in your other post you balance charged over night with a $15 Tenergy 5 in 1 balancer. I went to the Tenergy website, couldnt find the spec sheet for balance current.
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Nope. I don't do snow and ice any more. I hurt myself enough times. I will either walk or take a bus.
Nope. My right knee is shot. Total knee replacement was recommended about 9 years ago. I can walk about 3 miles on a good day because I don't have to bend my knee. I have one ebike that can pedal and another that just needs a chain. The one with the hub on the back and chain up front we were talking about. I also got a third I might be ordering a 700C - 1,500W hub kit for when I get lighter batteries.
I can walk three miles and my knee wont hurt. When I do pedal even a block or two my knee will hurt and will feel it the next day.
You can check my post LFP reverse polarity in battery technology.
Thanks.
Skyler.
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