What are the best MTB free-hubs for the $$$ to use?

[turbo1889]

Got a couple new builds in progress and have mainly finished welding the frame on the one that uses standard bicycle wheels (other don't).

E-shopping for rear free-hubs and/or assembled wheels with same. Intend to use 8-speed cassette (9,10,11 speed chain too thin for my liking 8-speed max number of rear cogs for standard derailer chain use). Normal 26" MTB rear wheel standard 135mm with rear disk brake. Power I'm going to run through the system is in the 1.2-Kw range to be geared low for more torque and less speed, probably a 14-34 tooth spread on the rear cogs topping out at just under 30-mph top speed in the 14t high gear and obviously at lot of torque potential in the low 34t gear.

Don't want to spend more then I have too but want a rear wheel that will get the job done. I hate 32 or less spoke count on wheels and my feelings on low spoke count wheels are not very friendly, 36 spoke count is bare minimum and I've been known to run higher spoke counts when I can do so without paying a huge amount more.

What you guys recommend/discourage along those lines as far as what is out there and available in free-hubs and rear wheels built on them?

Been looking at some of the Halo free-hubs on their main web-site where their second/third level up free-hubs are available in 48 spoke versions in 135mm but have been unable to locate for sale on the internet state-side. Shimano also has some basic models I've been able to find that have at least 36 spoke holes. Keep on running into a massive glut of 32 spoke hole hubs and even 24 spoke hole hubs that are pretty much worthless from my point of view. My feelings on the low spoke counts are very similar to what Sheldon Brown said about them, even more so for e-bike mid-drive builds.

 

[panurge]

Hello....
What you are looking for IMHO:

- Freehub: Ratchets and pawls will be subjected to higher loads and impacts at engage, and probably longer and faster free-turns compared to normal bicycle use, better to look at a solid and precise mechanism with durable splines...
-The multispeed cassette: Lower count cogs will obviously take more wear, 14 is the minimum IMHO, but would go for even more...also a good cassette+chain+derailleur+shifter setup lead to more precise and problem-less shifting
- Derailleur precision and tension: A good quality derailleur with the max precision and the proper cage for your gears, is more crucial when you would put 1+Kw thru it.
- Chain strength and tension/guide: even if you wouldn't use a guide/tension in the donor bike as muscular, you may consider it on a cranckdrive conversions, basically, whatever you can do to prevent chain skip and derail is a good idea; a good 9 speed chain could be stronger than a cheap 7-8 one....anyway get the strongest you can find for your gear choice.
- Bearing quality: bearings are subjected to more load
- A thru Axle could be a good idea too, for a stronger rear.

Anyway for 1.2 Kw (remember that you have to work from peaks there!) I think that a solid and precise 9spd setup (freehub+ cassette+chain+derailleur+shifter), should do the job fine with some care mostly while driving the lower T count cogs .

 

[Lebowski]

hm :? I'm planning to run a 2.5kW (mechanical power) mid-drive in my recumbent, through an old 6-speed derailleur.
It held up fine during the short testdrive so I think I'll be OK. What I can recommend you to do is to calculate the chain
tension. With my motor in the end I pull about 100 chain links a second, about 125 cm of chain. With 2.5 kW this
works out to about 200 kg of force, which is equal to a 100 kg person standing full-on on the pedals combined with
the bike being on the biggest chain ring in front. Point being, it's a condition that can also happen on a normal
bike, so the components should be able to deal with it.

I can feel my frame twisting under the power though

 

[turbo1889]

Guess I didn't get my question across clear enough. Before I've always used salvaged donor parts for rear wheels and rear wheel hubs unless I had something very specific in mind (like a Sram dual drive hub). This is the first time I'm buying a rear wheel/hub specifically for the application in mind that is just a regular old spline cassette free-hub. I've run nearly this much power through old 7-speed screw on freewheel hubs and I've run a little over half this much through salvaged donor free-hubs before.

This is the first time though I've had to shop new for a free-hub for rear wheel, so I want to get decent quality and something that can take the loads and work for what I want to do but I don't want to drop a couple extra $100 bills when I don't have to either.

There are the basic first level low cost ($50-ish) loose ball bearing freehubs out there = Shimano M525A, Shimano M756A, Halo Combat, etc . . .

There are the second/third level cost ($100-ish, $150-ish) where you either get a little better quality and/or sealed cartridge bearings, possible 48-spoke options = Halo Spin Doctor, DMR Revolver, Azonic Recoil, etc . . .

Then after that you get into the expensive free-hubs $200+ price range. But I'm not so sure they are stronger, quite possibly the majority of them except for the ones specifically built for cargo/tandem use are actually weaker and they are built for light weight not high strength.

On top of that you have the steel vs. aluminum part of the equation. For the actual spline that the cassete sprockets go onto. I know that must be steel not aluminum, I've had a couple salvaged donor free-hubs that I have used that had an aluminum spline section that have had the cogs tear into the aluminum spline ribs not enough to tear through so far but enough to make cassette replacement a real PITA and enough for me to realize that I need a steel spline section for high power. Then there is the hub body itself the vast majority of the ones I have dealt with are aluminum but I have run across a steel one or two in my days and for running e-bike mid-drive power they might be the better option especially if there are only 36 spoke holes and you drill them out to take larger 12ga. spokes.



So what free-hubs have you guys been using?
Which ones have held up and which ones haven't?
Which ones are steel for the driver spline and which ones are aluminum?

Often the descriptions even on the manufactures web pages as well as the sellers don't give information on whether the actual spline section is steel or aluminum.

I assume most of you guys are running free-hub rear wheels on your mid-drive builds and a lot of you are running a lot more Kw in some of your builds then I am, so I thought I would ask as to what free-hubs are the best deal to get strength without paying too much for our use? On the salvaged donor hubs I have been using so far (both free-hub and freewheel) I usually go down to the LBS and have them swap out the hollow quick release axle for a solid nutted axle which they can usually but not always do. So far haven't used any of the new fangled "through axle" hubs except for on some salvaged donor front wheels, where they seem to be more common, have not yet dealt with that design style on a rear hub.

I could just go buy another Yuba Mondu rear wheel, I already know they can take these levels of power and torque without problems, 48 spokes, 14mm solid nutted axle, heavy duty sealed cartridge bearings. But unfortunately they take screw on freewheels and I'm getting sick of replacing them on my builds that already use that rear wheel. I go through Shimano 7-speed freewheels by the half dozen and usually end up cussing and puffing up a storm when it comes time to unscrew them from the hubs to replace them because they get screwed down so tight and I can't customize my sprocket steps like I can with a spline cassette free-hub. Yes, I realize that it is possible to disassemble several freewheels and swap around cogs and reassemble for custom ratios but I only will do that on pedal only or low powered (like 250-watt) mid-drives because it isn't worth custom assembling freewheel cogs when I wear them out so fast on the more powerful mid-drives that use the old screw on freewheels.

Anyway, hope that explains what I'm asking about better without further muddying up the waters.

 

[turbo1889]

Oh, yah, forgot to mention as far as shock loads on engagement of the pawls I tend to tweak the electronics on my build to minimize that so its not as big of concern on my builds as many other peoples builds. Whenever possible I set-up my controllers for "soft start" and/or program/build ramp up delays into my throttle circuits. I hate hard smacks on throttle up an prefer a smooth power up.

Sustained torque loads is a bigger issue for me since I tend to gear down more then most and tend to haul/pull heavier cargo loads.

 

[panurge]

Yes I understand your point....sorry to not mention my direct experience with specific hubs....
I used a DMR revolver on a 24" wheel with Halo spokes and Fireeye excelerant rim, on my left drive Astro 3220.
It does not go thru the gears so no feedback on the motor driven freehub, but in terms of spokes, axle and bearings it worked perfectly for 2500Km until now, and power is maybe 4x 1.2 Kw.
On the 26" wheels I've experimented a WTB laser disc, and again no problem seen...
Now I'm setting up a single duty WTB hub to be used with 3-4 gears.....It is a promising setup.....
I've used also an old shimano M525 loose ball with 26" and 32spokes. This wheel was an old one with standard spokes and an old Mavic rim. and Although it was well serviced before to be used on the astrobike (just for a week-end before to relace the 24" wheel after a disaster chain derail that cut all the left spokes) I've Noticed wear on cones and easy spokes loose in this short time.....
If I well remember, motomoto used a cranckdriven Astro thru the gears with an XTR.
Don't know how many miles has made with this setup, though...but I bet a single mile made with a 3220 thru the cassette worth at least like 20 with a soft engaging 1.2Kw (peak?) system..

Then after that you get into the expensive free-hubs $200+ price range. But I'm not so sure they are stronger, quite possibly the majority of them except for the ones specifically built for cargo/tandem use are actually weaker and they are built for light weight not high strength.

that's basically true, mostly about the High end series of big manufacturer like Shimano or Sram (on MTB). Otherwise I found some High end Hubs/Heavy duty specific, really stronger and/or better in freehub mechanism than cheaper ones, in my bycicle life (Profile - Hadley, KK, DT etc.). However, In the road world, higher series usually means also better strength and not only lightness, in my experience...You should expect only Human loads on the road drivetrain parts, and a Lycra Pro is able to 4x and more the peak power of a normal person.....

The only Crankdrives I've experience with, are GNG1 systems, But used on 142-150mm rear wheels with 12mmTA and DH hubs (sun ringlé). Both with 1x9, they seems to works well to me, with some care while shifting....

 

[turbo1889]

Thanks for adding the specific info as far as your experience with specific free-hubs.

 

[turbo1889]

Well, right now if I really wanted to spend $200+ on a hub it looks like the White Industries Mi6 hub is one of the strongest MTB free-hubs out there and is available in the 48 spoke hole configuration I like. In fact considering what I could save in wheel buildings costs I might just see if Staton-Inc will do a complete rear wheel for me for $310.47 + S&H by combining these two items on his online store:

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/products/WHITE_INDUSTRIES_M16_REAR_Q_R_DISC_MTN_HUB-1490-0.html
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/pro..._20_48_Hole_Rim_width_is_1_Silver-375-21.html

For a complete wheel built and ready to go that's not too bad and I'm thinking that hub will be pretty close to bullet proof. Will have to e-mail David and see if its the same price to build the wheel onto the Mi6 hub instead of one of his own hubs just to be sure. Only thing I don't like is that its a QR axle that hub comes with. I prefer nutted axles but unfortionatly that isn't an option White Industries has for the Mi6 hub.