Wich controller for 250w pedelec / 1000w throttle?

[manitu]

Hi guys!

I'm in the planning stage of a throttle controlled e-bike for offroad commuting. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27043
Only problem is that in europe, the regulation for e-bikes is 250watt /25kph (16mph) , and it has to be pedal contolled.

on-road mode:
250W
25kph max
pedal controlled

off-road mode:
unlimited watts
unlimited speed
throttle controlled

In on-road mode , it would be nice to switch the motor assist on/off with the pedals and adjusting the power with the throttle , but a fixed output of 250W while pedaling would do. (it has to be limited to 25kph/16mph anyway).

In off-road mode , I would like the pedal-sensor to be disconnected.

Wich controller can do this?

.manitu

 

[bjosta]

My view as a fellow European is "why bother"? 8)
And with that I mean a legal e-bike is no fun as you have already figured out. PAS only and a max of 250W and 25Km/h
If you mount a throttle on it and use a controller capable of 1000W it wont be legal. Adding some switches or limiters etc to get the bike to function in the 250W, PAS, 25Km/h framework it's still not legal.
It's not the same regulations for lets say a car where it can be capable of 400Km/h and as long as you stick to the speed limits it's perfectly legal. If the e-bike can pull more than 250W it's illegal.

So my suggestion is, build it like you want it, use a CA to limit yourself to 250W/25Km/h if you want or just be carefull on the throttle when you are "on road". You can even add a PAS sensor and have it on a switch so you can turn it "off". But don't kid yourself that the bike is legal.

 

[manitu]

Why bother?? well.. Cause I do , I guess.

In my town , wich is hit hard with the neo-facism , I WILL be stopped and have the cops looking over /testing the bike.
I'm not shure of wich method to use for the power-limiting , but it has to be easy and fast to switch modes. My best option would be a controller with dual settings , controlled by a witch.. Don't know if any controllers have such a feature ..(?)

Anyway , thanks for the input.

.manitu

 

[bjosta]

Most of the infineon based controllers have or can be fitted with a 3-mode switch, you can then set a percentage to these 3 "modes" like 20% 50% 100% power. This is usually a "low-mid-high" switch visible on the handlebar but I guess you can build it like a stealth switch.
Other controllers sometime come with a "speed limit" wire, if you short that wire the controller is power limited to European levels, but not sure how that works, and if you want a powerfull controller (and I guess you do ) then that is not a standard feature.

The point of my previous post was just to say that even limited by a dual mode controller, 3 mode switch, or CA limited, the bike won't be legal. If you just want it to increase your chances of getting out of a situation with the lawman :wink: then I guess a hidden 3-mode switch solution is easy enough.

 

[bigbore]

Why bother?? well.. Cause I do , I guess.

In my town , wich is hit hard with the neo-facism , I WILL be stopped and have the cops looking over /testing the bike.
I'm not shure of wich method to use for the power-limiting , but it has to be easy and fast to switch modes. My best option would be a controller with dual settings , controlled by a witch.. Don't know if any controllers have such a feature ..(?)

Anyway , thanks for the input.

.manitu

Welcome to the club!!!
Here were I live is the same The cops are my main concern too. Have a look here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26756
Let me know if you find a way of doing a dual mode e-bike cause I want one too
I have 8 packs of LiPo that I've been using on my street legal e-scooter that could be configured 20S2P to have 74V 10Ah nominal. The LiPos are Zippy 5S 5000mAh 40C and I guess in the 2P config they can provide 100Amps continuous easily while climbing 8)

 

[manitu]

Hi.

Seems like there is a solution, bu can't be shure , until I get the controller.

The infineon controller has a adjustable power-limiter wich you can buy a three-way switch for.
Some people her says it allso has a three-way SPEED limiter , But have'nt confirmed this yet.
Apbout the pedelec sensor.. If there's no other solution , I'll build a small circuit wich requires the pedals to move for the throttle to work. (in "legal" mode)

Now , to control this in a stealth fasion... I'm thinkin of a keykard to get full power , like a miniature of those hotel key-cards.
This way , I can make a small box with a card slot , where I have to insert a card to get full power (microswitches inside).
I could make a hole in the keycard to match one microswitch , to be shure that the correct card has to be used.

I'll know more , when I get the controller.

.manitu

 

[bigbore]

Hi.


Now , to control this in a stealth fasion... I'm thinkin of a keykard to get full power , like a miniature of those hotel key-cards.
This way , I can make a small box with a card slot , where I have to insert a card to get full power (microswitches inside).
I could make a hole in the keycard to match one microswitch , to be shure that the correct card has to be used.

I'll know more , when I get the controller.

.manitu

What about a jumper? Once removed and hidden in your trouser pocket the cops have to shortcut those two anderson power connector red and black that you have labelled as charge socket
So, in legal mode the jumper must be removed and when you want all the power you need to plug it

 

[PetriK]

I choose infenion for the switchability. Really like the pedelec over throttle on a full suspension mtb. This summer wil show if the reliability is there.

The question i have if the 250w EU limit is in to the controller, in to the motor or out of the wheel ? My 250w motor takes in to the controller max 850w with the current setup, which is about as much as i dare with the 10ah36v pack.

 

[marcexec]

I choose infenion for the switchability. Really like the pedelec over throttle on a full suspension mtb. This summer wil show if the reliability is there.

The question i have if the 250w EU limit is in to the controller, in to the motor or out of the wheel ? My 250w motor takes in to the controller max 850w with the current setup, which is about as much as i dare with the 10ah36v pack.

As I understand, the limit applies to the motor rating , look at EN 15194.

 

[manitu]

@ bigbore: The keycard ide was for controlling 2 or more switches without relays , in case I need to switch several things. (watts , speed , PAS..)

@petrik: Yeah , Max 250w nominal motor rating , at max 36volts.

Anyhow , I've decided to go with Lyen's modded 12FET 4110 controller.

.manitu

 

[bigbore]

@ bigbore: The keycard ide was for controlling 2 or more switches without relays , in case I need to switch several things. (watts , speed , PAS..)

@petrik: Yeah , Max 250w nominal motor rating , at max 36volts.

Anyhow , I've decided to go with Lyen's modded 12FET 4110 controller.

.manitu

Ok, I've understood the keycard!
I would choose the same controller as I have a 74V 10Ah LiPo pack.
How are you going to turn off the motor as you pass the speed of 25Km/h?
The for the volts could be 48V??
http://www.bike-eu.com/news/2548/cen-standard-for-e-bikes-almost-finalized.html