BBSHD - Creaking Sound

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automan25   100 mW

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BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 01 2017 10:50pm

My new (and only) BBSHD build had developed a creaking sound down by the bottom bracket. It only happens when I am pedaling and gets stronger when I begin putting more effort into it. I've checked every nut and bolt I can get to without removing the BBSHD and all seem secure. One thing I noticed is that the bottom bracket shaft has a slight lateral movement to it as you can see in this video:

https://goo.gl/photos/cvLBiFFrLi4v5bVR6

Is this movement normal? My wife's bike has the BBS02 and it doesn't have this movement in the shaft. Any help on resolving this issue would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 03 2017 10:20pm

Luna tech support suggests it might be a bad thrust bearing. How can this be after only 200 miles. Has anyone else had issues with the thrust bearing?

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m4k3r   1 W

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by m4k3r » Apr 04 2017 1:55pm

automan25 wrote:Luna tech support suggests it might be a bad thrust bearing. How can this be after only 200 miles. Has anyone else had issues with the thrust bearing?
Have you removed the crank arm and checked the bottom bracket lock nut? Edit: I believe there are two on the non-drive side, one secures the motor while the other helps to reatin the first.

Looks pretty dirty down there, a cleaning wouldn't hurt and may eliminate the creaking. I would take it off the bike, clean/wipe down everything and re-assemble. The lateral movement does seem strange though, my buddy doesn't have his BBSHD on right now or i would check. I guess i could see if it does that same thing without being on the bike too, i'll check when i get home.
“We will never know world peace, until three people can simultaneously look each other straight in the eye.”

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 04 2017 3:40pm

Thanks for the reply m4k3r. I checked both bottom bracket lock nuts and both are as tight as they need to be. I plan on removing the spindle this evening to examine the thrust bearing. I suspect that is the culprit. I definitely would appreciate it if you could report back on the lateral movement on your friend's bbshd.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 04 2017 11:32pm

I broke into the BBSHD this evening to examine the thrust bearing for damage. I don't see anything, but I also don't really know what I'm looking for. The bearing is very small, so the damage could be small as well. Or the bearing could just be a bit out of specification, something that would be impossible to visualize. Anyway, here are the photos I took of it. Anyone else have any observations?

https://goo.gl/photos/35LdaFd6S6BpjbJa8

KalSteve   1 W

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by KalSteve » Apr 05 2017 10:58pm

That's a lot of end float in the video of you moving the crank. Looks to me like the thrust bearing wasn't adjusted correctly to begin with. Now you have taken it apart, when you put it back together if you set the thrust bearing clearance correctly you might find the creaking disappears along with the end float.

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 06 2017 8:44am

That sounds great. How does one go about making that adjustment?

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by Timmack » Apr 07 2017 6:03am

Hi guys,
First time post. Just wondering whether you fixed the creaking sound? My wife had a creaking sound on her BBSHD, I took a look and found the pedal was working loose, tightened it and no longer creaking.
Apologies if it is no longer an issue.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 07 2017 9:45am

I don't know if it's fixed yet. I haven't ridden the bike since I reassembled the bearing. I live in Seattle and it's been raining a bunch. I'll try tightening the pedals down as much as I can. Would you mind checking your wife's bike to see how much lateral movement there is in the crank shaft? I'd like to get an idea of what is considered "normal".

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m4k3r   1 W

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by m4k3r » Apr 07 2017 2:37pm

I was able to check my buddies BBSHD and didn't notice any lateral movement, mind you the drive is off the bike so not sure if that would make a difference but thought I'd mention it.

Now that you've re-assembled the drive is the movement still there?
“We will never know world peace, until three people can simultaneously look each other straight in the eye.”

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 07 2017 11:58pm

I just checked the lateral movement again, post reassembly. It sort of seems like their might be less, but I'm not really sure. It would be fractions of a millimeter if anything. It's still there, but is well within the 3mm tolerance limit Luna is suggesting. I don't see any real way to adjust for the movement, short of inserting a spacer that would take up the extra space. I still haven't had a chance to ride it since I've reassembled it, again, because of this crummy Seattle weather. I've really gotta move out of Puget Sound. The weather is just so bad 9 months of the year.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by tomjasz » Apr 08 2017 2:29am

automan25 wrote:Luna tech support suggests it might be a bad thrust bearing. How can this be after only 200 miles. Has anyone else had issues with the thrust bearing?
I'd seen several do this early on. How? A build problem. 3, I was aware of got worse, and were replaced. See what Matt at Empowered thinks, or Bruno the fellow that produced the BBSHD videos. I poked them and biktrix. I dont remember what they did.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by Timmack » Apr 08 2017 3:07am

Well it turns out as I told my wife how amazing I was to help someone out on my first post to endless-sphere, she informed me her BBSHD was still creaking during her latest ride, so I then checked the crank arms were tight enough and it seems to have fixed the problem and I took it for a ride myself. I hope it helps!

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by tomjasz » Apr 08 2017 11:42am

There is another version of this site on Facebook, Sevral dealer pals hang out and I reached out to them. I couldn't find my old notes..Here's what I was reminded of by Bruno, quoted here and I believe the best advise. Confirmed by a second dealer. And subsequently found in my notes, along with mention of a single case of a badly seated clutch. Bafang doesn't seen to be ever willing to admit they let bad builds get out. This is why we buy from dealers with good warranty policies. Not direct from China. With one or two exceptions, like EM3ev. I found one incident in my notes up in Canada where it did get worse. I imagine due to odd wear patterns with the movement. Neither of mine had any noticeable movement.
Bruno wrote:"Check the little ball bearing that goes between the PAS magnetic disc and the motor casing, that little bearing is the only thing stopping the shaft from going towards the non drive side and the freewheel is stopping from going towards the drive side.
There are also machining tolerances, when you combine multiple parts these tolerances can be more than desired.
Spoke to Bafang in person recently, tried to tell them about some other common issues... they won't listen to anyone... they reeeeally believe their motors are perfect and their business is so successful... and blablabla...
Maybe try to add a washer before the bearing to compensate any machining tolerance gap? I haven't tried but I think it would do the trick =]"
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Apr 08 2017 2:34pm

My BBSHD on a Marin Muirwoods started creaking a week after I fitted it so I retightened the bb nuts and its sorted.
It must have been settling in.
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

DB_1234   1 µW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by DB_1234 » Apr 17 2017 5:15pm

Think I have developed the same problem with mine, crank lateral movement and the creaking noise under both pedal and throttle load.

Have you been able to fix it yet and was it a difficult job

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 18 2017 4:24pm

I haven't fixed it yet. Luna sent me a replacement bearing. Hopefully I can find the time this evening to put it in and see if that solves the issue. I'll report back soon.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 19 2017 11:42pm

Here's an update.

Last night I installed the new bearing from Luna. It didn't fix the lateral movement and I didn't test for the creaking noise since it was raining, again.

Today I went to the hardware store and picked up a stainless steel washer that was the same outside diameter as the outside thrust bearing race. The inside diameter of the washer was too small, so I used my Dremel tool to grind it down until it just fit over the shaft. I smoothed out the rough edges and installed it on the shaft behind the race as suggested by Bruno's quote above. I put the shaft back in and tightened down the cover. At this point it was extremely difficult to rotate the shaft backward as you might do when pedaling backward. Obviously this meant that the bearing was too tight. I removed the cover and shaft and used my Dremel to grind down one side of the washer to reduce the thickness. Since the Dremel is not a very precise machining tool I also put a glove on and rubbed (in a swirl pattern) the same side of the washer on the cement floor of my garage to even things out. I reinstalled everything. This time the shaft would rotate, but there was still more resistance than I was comfortable with. I repeated the process and reduced the thickness of the washer a bit more. This time everything felt just right. The shaft moves freely and there is no more lateral play. I haven't had a chance to test to see if the creaking noise is gone since, (yes, you guessed it) it's raining again. All in all, I'm pretty happy I was able to get rid of the lateral movement and the total cost was only 35 cents for the washer and 1.5 hours of my time.

Here's a photo of the washer on the shaft:

https://goo.gl/photos/c5sQj1Gox55KJs2n7

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Apr 25 2017 12:37pm

Another Update:

The bike seems to work fine and as mentioned before, the lateral movement on the shaft is gone. There is still some creaking noise, but it's a lot less than before. I'm not sure if I can attribute this the bearing spacer I installed, or the fact that I just tightened the hell out of the bolt that holds on the crank arms.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » May 05 2017 11:27am

It's been about a hundred miles since my last post. The creaking sound is virtually gone now. I'm calling this one successful.

BeachRider2016   100 W

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by BeachRider2016 » May 06 2017 11:45pm

Nicely done! My bbshd has the exact problem. Thanks for the washer tip.

negativepitch   1 µW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by negativepitch » May 15 2017 12:59am

This post saved me a lot of time and stress! Thank you automan25.

The only thing I'd add is that in my case a washer was too thick, and sanding it down to the correct thickness (about 1/3 - 1/2 the original thickness) proved to be too difficult. I ended up buying a 26-gauge metal sheet from Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-24- ... /204225786) and used the Dremel and a step bit to cut a new washer from it. It took ~20 minutes and ended up completely fixing my problem.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » May 16 2017 1:17pm

Excellent! I'm so glad my work helped you out. That's the beauty of these online forums.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by tomjasz » May 16 2017 8:21pm

California eBikes will be putting up some shims that can be used for taking up the space!
BBSHD shaft shims lateral movement fix
https://california-ebike.com/product/ba ... ers-set-3/
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

automan25   100 mW

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Re: BBSHD - Creaking Sound

Post by automan25 » Jun 03 2017 1:13pm

The creaking in the bottom bracket is back. Probably due to changes in the weather. I decided to remove the BbsHD from the bottom bracket to check for any play between the shaft and the bottom bracket shell. It turns out there is quite a bit. I'm pretty sure this the source of the noise. I think the noise would go away if the shaft fit in the bottom bracket more snugly. Does anyone know of a sleeve that could take up the extra space?

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