Noob building a city commuter - Feedback?

Hello,

So I've been doing research for a few weeks now on ebikes as a solution to my lack of a driver's license. I've mainly been looking at turnkey setups, but the relatively high prices makes me want to consider building an ebike.

My goal is to build a commuter bike that can survive hilly roads and carry 130 lbs. of me + 20 lbs. of my typical cargo. Typical desired range would be a total of 10-20 mi with little pedaling.

This is the build I'm thinking of:

Donor Bike Options:
Schwinn Wayfarer
http://www.schwinnbikes.com/bikes/cruisers/2012-wayfarer-14713#/specs
7-speed shimano derailleur in the back, 700c rims, and (most importantly) steel forks on the front. The price is pretty low, but being a cheap bike I can't imagine it lasting very long.

Public T7
http://publicbikes.com/p/PUBLIC-T7
Similar to the Wayfarer, but almost 2.5x more expensive and a nicer looking bike. This is an option if I wanted to spend more, but the bike does look a little too polished to do much with. Thoughts?

Battery
Bafang 48v10Ah
http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/468-24v-lithium-ion-little-frog-abs-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html

Motor
Bafang 48v500w V-brake
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/400-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-bike-conversion-kit.html

Costs
Shipping kills it at $300 from Bafang.... I think I might have to find another supplier for those parts...
Schwinn: $200 + $300 + $150 + $300 = $950
Public: $500 + $300 + $150 + $300 = $1350

Questions
Should I go for a front or a rear wheel mount? I don't mind the extra work of installing the rear motor, but I'm concerned with weight distribution thanks to the rack-mounted battery pack. Additionally, I'm worried that the strength of the motor might be too much for a front fork mount. Is 48v500w too much for the front? Especially without disc brakes (although I'm a bit wary of disc brakes after reading this: http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/02/14/road-bike-disc-brakes-are-coming-but-will-they-work/). But the Schwinn might need more brake adjustment and probably an upgrade...

Somehow the Schwinn build seems too good to be true, but I'm really interested in hearing feedback regarding this build. Do you guys think it's possible? Thanks!

Welcome to ES!

First things first. Please go to User control panel / profile / location: (ad where you live – at least a country) it makes it easier for us to suggest where to go for the best prices, shipping, etc. Not to mention if you have any local users in your area maybe they will show you what they are rolling on.

So where do you live?

If you live in the US, this is the best bang for the buck. Get a 26" bike with steel dropouts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/230906858514
4 20C 5000mah 6s packs for 10ah of 12s lipo. About $170
This charger and PSU to power it.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw

Updated my location... sorry about that hahahah.

Lehigh Valley, PA (USA) gets really cold in the winter, really hot and humid in the summer, and is full of elevation changes. I live more in the center/urban part, although there are definitely plenty of suburban areas in this region.

The 26" build sounds pretty good, but being new I have a few questions:
1. What is the advantage of dropouts vs. a standard wheel mount?
2. What is the safety like of LiPo vs. LiFePO4 on electric bikes? My father uses LiPos for RC cars and has a few horror stories from friends regarding combustion...

Pick a good bike like the schwinn, but I do also lean towards recomending a 26" wheel. You want 7 speed rear derailur in the back, in front it can be one gear, or two or three. 26" bikes similar to your schwinn choice work well, as do 7 speed beach cruisers. But the easiest to find in a decent bike cheap is the 26" mountain bike with front only suspension. Trek 820 is just one example, and you should be able to find a used but still good one for about $100-150. Last one I bought was $60.

Particularly with the steep hills in PA, I think your motor might be a bit underpowered for it. Much depends though, on how hard you pedal. Really fit riders find 500w plenty of assist. Personally, I came to prefer closer to 1200w. You still only use about 400w to cruise 20 mph, and 900w climbing hills. You won't be sorry you bought a more powerful dd motor on the steep type of hills common in PA.

I'd say go with the motor Wes recomended, or something similar such as a kit from here. http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=54

Get the rear motor, because you don't have to carry the battery on a rear rack. Carry it in the frame triangle, and then you still have the rack for your cargo. This also allows a nicer front suspension fork to be used later if your mtb comes with a cheapie.

For the battery, I would recomend a 48v 15 ah lifepo4. I like to recomend pingbattery.com, but a similar battery can be bought on ebay from a vendor called sunthing. He's slowly developing a reputation here for a low cost alternative for a lifepo4 battery.

You can still have it all, including the more expensive ping battery on a budget of about $1200 or less if you score on the bike. Once built, you will be good to go for several years of riding. I got 7000 miles and 3.5 years from my first pingbattery, and others have done 10,000 miles. That's pretty cheap per mile, and no licence needed. Longer trips are possible, a 48v 15 ah pingbattery can take you 35 miles if you ride a slow as 15 mph. Even on the hills. You'll have 20 miles range at full gallop.

Steel dropouts are a lot stronger and harder than soft aluminum. Bending them won't weaken them or crack them. I've never used a torque arm on mine and never had a problem. I've never used aluminum simply because I've seen all the ones that have broken, ruined the motor, and have caused some serious injuries. Cheap bikes with V brakes work just as good as expensive ones imo. They tend to be a little heavier because they don't care about wieght. Expensive bikes tend to go with minimum light material to keep the weight down. Great if you're riding without a motor. Of absolutely not advantage if not.
I've used nothing but rc lipo for my battery packs and never had even a puffed cell yet. No one has proven to me that there's any great life cycle advantage of lifepo4 over rc lipo for ebike use. Now if you want to spend 4 times as much for a good quality lifepo4 pack you may see twice the cycle life, but for me the disadvantage of having a sealed hard to work on battery pack that's larger, heavier, and fixed voltage just turns me off. I run 10ah 24s lipo, but in a matter of seconds I can reconfigure it to 20ah of 12s, which I do when I charge it. Lifepo4 is certainly safer, but as long as you take proper care of rc lipo, it's been perfect for me. Smaller, lighter, configurable, cheaper, without worry of exceeding a 1C rate of the cheaper lifepo4 battery packs.

If you're literally asking the difference between a dropout and a fork end, a dropout allows you to remove a wheel without removing the chain. Only fixies use fork ends that aren't dropouts these days. The guys here are more talking about steel vs alloy dropouts.

I too think modern LiPo has a bad rap. Certainly early days, laptops and even phones were catching fire spontaneously. With no scientific proof, I would say that the new generation of LiPo is safe enough for use provided you don't over charge, over discharge, drop or puncture it, and check for puffing every time you handle it.


As for weight imbalance from your op, I wrote recently for my bike it feels "funny" but only when carrying the bike, not when riding. All the weight on the back seems to make no difference to high speed handling, but a few times when trying to take off hard, I have lifted the front wheel accidentally. Not by pure motor force though, included pedalling from 38/11t (high gear) If it bothers you D8veh posted some photos on how too redistribute the weight further forward.

wesnewell said:

If you live in the US, this is the best bang for the buck. Get a 26" bike with steel dropouts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/230906858514
4 20C 5000mah 6s packs for 10ah of 12s lipo. About $170
This charger and PSU to power it.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw

Click to expand...

I like my Thunder 1220. All that is needed for a power supply is a single $15 server PS and one has a safe Lipo charger that will do 12S @ 300W for under $100.
The only other things that are needed are a couple of Cellog 8's.

Don't misunderstand me, I own a pile of RC lipo and use it on bikes that need high power and lighter weight.

It would be the way to go if he was a serious pedaler, to use the light motor he chose and only 5 ah of lipo. He'd have a very light bike he could pedal 80% of the time, and some help on the hills.

But looking at the schwinn he likes, I bet he's more like me. Wants to go at least 20 mph even into a headwind, 15 mph up steep hills, wants to pedal but not sweat out his clothes, and have 20-30 mile range.

A good direct drive motor and a 48v 15 ah pingbattery sucked so bad for doing that, that I rode it for 4 years and about 10,000 miles. Put about $50 cash into my pocket every week compared to driving the cheapest possible car. It sucked even worse the second and third year, after it was all free riding for about 7000 miles. Well not completely free, 15 cents a day for the charge, and tires every 3000 miles or so.

Oh, and did I mention that in four years there have been only about 2-3 lifepo4 battery fires, every one of them caused by a short ciricuited wire? Lipo fires are so few we created a thread just to keep track of them all, just for this year.

Even so, RC lipo (lico) can be a good battery for many. Fires aren't happening to everybody, and they can charge nice and fast. They really rule when you want less than 15 ah capacity for shorter trips.

My main point is simply that lifepo4 is more convenient to charge anywhere, and believe me, it DOES go more cycles than lico. It's just a proven fact. However, any type of cell can fail early. So sometimes lifepo4 has problems just like lico sometimes does. All batteries are subject to crap quality control in china factories.

As far as the bike goes, I would highly recommend getting the bike that you would like riding even if you didn't have an Ebike kit on it. Go with something that isn't boat anchor heavy, and mount the battery within the frame. Once you mount the battery and then add cargo to the back wheel, it's going to be a chore moving that bike around.

But what's the general opinion around quality? The links above have extraordinarily inexpensive prices and I've never known a quality bike component to come cheap. Do those motors and batteries come with a warranty?

I've heard good things about Solarbike kits and they come with a 1-year warranty. Sure, the price is higher, but something tells me not all hub motors and batteries are created equal.

http://california-ebike.com/store/#!/~/product/category=2529121&id=19589042

and warranty information...
http://california-ebike.com/warranty/

cbzen said:

But what's the general opinion around quality? The links above have extraordinarily inexpensive prices and I've never known a quality bike component to come cheap. Do those motors and batteries come with a warranty?

Click to expand...

That's the Yescom kit from another Ebay vendor - best value out there IMHO - Only 100 miles on mine but working flawlessly and great performance with a 48v15ah battery - can't see spending 3X that for another direct drive hub except if going for a high performance unit...

geeeyejo1 said:

cbzen said:

But what's the general opinion around quality? The links above have extraordinarily inexpensive prices and I've never known a quality bike component to come cheap. Do those motors and batteries come with a warranty?

Click to expand...

That's the Yescom kit from another Ebay vendor - best value out there IMHO - Only 100 miles on mine but working flawlessly and great performance with a 48v15ah battery - can't see spending 3X that for another direct drive hub except if going for a high performance unit...

Click to expand...

Got over 2800 miles on my Yescomusa 36v 800w front hub motor. Still running as new. Some of the paint is beginning to peel off one side of it, but I am not going to worry about the paint for now.