If you had $400.00 to spend?

Cryingmadman

Cryingmadman

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Joined
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If you had $400 bucks to spend on a mid drive motor would you buy the bafang or Toseven mid-drive kit?

Cryingmadman

“Simple things cause catastrophic failures Difficult things create innovations “

Boeing CEO
 
The smaller Toseven is about the same weight as the TSDZ2 and has a torque sensor and so far seems to be better in many ways.

The answer is of course it depends what you are looking for, is a torque sensor important to you or not? Is max power more important? Etc

But in general a Bafang or Toseven are the best options currently.
 
BBS02 is more powerful and more reliable, with a better OEM and aftermarket support base.
 
raylo32 said:
But no torque sensor. Deal breaker for any real cyclist.
Click to expand...
I'm a lifelong cyclist. Started making e-bikes in the late '90s, didn't consider riding one for years afterwards. Hardly ever had a car, used a motorcycle for a dozen years and then let that go. Always got around by bike.

I like the idea of torque sensing, but I hate the implementations that I've seen-- fragile, fiddly, laggy, cluttery (except for the OEM ones that are user-unserviceable and ludicrously expensive, now we're talking actual deal breaker). So far I've graduated from cadence PAS to throttle only, because less is more, like any real cyclist can tell you. It doesn't mean I don't use my pedals; they still do what they always have done.
 
It's really not hard to use a throttle and pedal at the same time, I think people often have bad experiences of trying this since many ebikes come with garbage throttles that are placed so awkwardly it's impossible to use them as anything but an on-off switch.

Not that I'm against torque sensors but both can work quite well and have pros and cons. For instance with a throttle it's often more natural to pedal when it's flat and then just add some power on the hills which keeps your input more constant than the torque sensor which you still have to pedal harder on the hills and it may be giving you assist when you don't want it on the flat. I been trying out pedaling on the straight sections and switching to throttle only when it gets fun and twisty.

All depends how and where you are using it, just like it would be absurd to say X motor is the best in every possible use case.
 
Chalo said:
BBS02 is more powerful and more reliable, with a better OEM and aftermarket support base.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I am not sure if BBS02 is more powerful than TSDZ8... in UK BBS02 is illegal, so for me choice is simple - TSDZ8
 
I'm a real cyclist and i also prefer throttles.

I don't think you get a very good mid drive for $400. But you do get a really good hub at that price or lower.
 
Toseven dm02. End of story.
Riding with throttle sucks big time.
I have cyc stealth with not working torque sensor.
Trust me! Riding with Torque sensor was much much more fun. Response was amazing and overall synchronization with your input. You will never be able to emulate the same feeling with throttle.
 
Throttle a must.
Cadence or torque sensor ?
Can you let us know the bike you're thinking of putting it on name model number.
What do you think you're going to get your battery ?
 
999zip999 said:
Throttle a must.
Cadence or torque sensor ?
Can you let us know the bike you're thinking of putting it on name model number.
What do you think you're going to get your battery ?
Click to expand...
Hi,

I have a gt avalanche stripped down ready to go and 48 volt 20 ah upp battery wheels are 26”

I been busy today building a hub motor testing stand for all my friends and family that need me to rewire hub motors that they have twisted the cables on. It’s pretty neat I can use it for front or rear axles Concrete is curing as I type. I used a five gallon bucket with two bags of redicrete and a 29” fork and a donor frame for rear dropouts that go into pipe imbedded in redicrete. Old man like me needs dolly to move it around.

Also have 2nd 1500 watt rear wheel build pending on a 27.5 frame.

Thanks for asking

Cryingmadman

“Ideas are easy execution is a bitch”

Marie Antoinette
 
raylo32 said:
But no torque sensor. Deal breaker for any real cyclist.
Click to expand...
I use an E-Bike for basic transportation ... mostly back and forth to the grocery store. I am not a 'real cyclist' ... the only reason it has pedals is because the State of Texas requires them to be classified as a "Bicycle".
 
We all come to e-bikes for different reasons. PAS bikes might be great for transpo and running errands and such, but many like me come to them for recreational riding that duplicates our long term cycling experience, only with a less effort as we age out. I have done maybe 150,000 miles on my pedal bikes, road, MTB, gravel, etc. Racing, too many hammer fast club rides to count, MTB, some epic TdF climbs, etc. I am not going backwards to ride a PAS bike, unless maybe for a grocery getter. But even then, why, since most torque sense bikes also have throttle for when you just don't want to pedal. And I already have a (gas) motorcycle for that.

LewTwo said:
I use an E-Bike for basic transportation ... mostly back and forth to the grocery store. I am not a 'real cyclist' ... the only reason it has pedals is because the State of Texas requires them to be classified as a "Bicycle".
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Well how cheap are you ? I have a yescom 26 in brand new direct drive hub motor complete 150 USD. I'll make sure it works first and get all the pieces together but if you want cheap I just live north of you.
 
999zip999 said:
Well how cheap are you ? I have a yescom 26 in brand new direct drive hub motor complete 150 USD. I'll make sure it works first and get all the pieces together but if you want cheap I just live north of you.
Click to expand...
Hi zip,

Would you be be willing to trade for Brand new cycle analyst v3 in box with switch and mount?

Cryingmadman
 
What's your purpose for the bike? If you want a bike conversion that easily hits mid 20 mph speeds, with a strong throttle, the BBS02B is well proven. It's strong, quiet, and reliable. Some of the newer models, you might have to get a program cable and fix the PAS settings.

I wonder if the toseven will be around. BBS02's and TSDZ2's do show up in factory made ebikes that we don't see outside of China,. I don't think the hobbyist conversion business can support a factory line., so unless toseven finds some big customers, it won't go far. That said, I like the torque sensing in my underpowered TSDZ2, and would consider a TSDZ8 or a DM02 over another BBS02.
 
Cryingmadman said:
Also have two new 20” geared hub motors new in box with 9 pin make connectors they are 20” x 3” with tires

Cryingmadman
Click to expand...
Btw

I consider myself frugal not cheap.

Cryingmadman

“Roasted toasted busted and disgusted and cannot be trusted like a dog without a bone a ship without a sea if your talking about broke you must be talkin bout me”

Wino at liquor store
 
docw009 said:
What's your purpose for the bike? If you want a bike conversion that easily hits mid 20 mph speeds, with a strong throttle, the BBS02B is well proven. It's strong, quiet, and reliable. Some of the newer models, you might have to get a program cable and fix the PAS settings.

I wonder if the toseven will be around. BBS02's and TSDZ2's do show up in factory made ebikes that we don't see outside of China,. I don't think the hobbyist conversion business can support a factory line., so unless toseven finds some big customers, it won't go far. That said, I like the torque sensing in my underpowered TSDZ2, and would consider a TSDZ8 or a DM02 over another BBS02.
Click to expand...
Hi Doc,

Purpose of this build is a commuter/transportation

Cryingmadman
 
Last edited:
Cryingmadman said:
Purpose of this build is a commuter/transportation
Click to expand...

Then I think you're very much barking up the wrong tree by using mid drive. Mid drives beat up their bike parts and need multiple times as much maintenance as hub drives. Also, they have no redundancy; when something goes wrong, you're walking.

Mid drives are fun, and they maximize the performance that you can get from a given wattage. But when you have to get to work, you should give yourself a better shot at getting there on time every time.
 
I have a BBS02 hardtail that I've ridden off road for eight years with neither failure nor maintenance to the motor. However, I agree with the above that a hub is better for commuting (as long as you flat-proof the tire on the driven wheel). My errand bike is a 1000w, 48V (run at 52V) and is great for that function.
 
2old said:
I have a BBS02 hardtail that I've ridden off road for eight years with neither failure nor maintenance to the motor. However, I agree with the above that a hub is better for commuting (as long as you flat-proof the tire on the driven wheel). My errand bike is a 1000w, 48V (run at 52V) and is great for that function.
Click to expand...

I never had a problem with my BBS02 motor core either, but it chewed up chains and cassettes like that's what it was made to do. Also the wheel speed sensor crapped out a couple of times, impairing but not shutting down the motor control functions.

Flats were slightly easier to deal with, like for like, with the mid drive than with a hub motor. But overall maintenance was much higher than with a pedal only bike. My experience with hub motor bikes is that they require less maintenance than pedal only bikes.
 
Ain't no man cheaper than me. I wear it like a badge. Or as I like to think practical.
Come on up see my Cyc mid drive and drive in a Kona Kockapoo. How tall are you ? Full disclosure I'm 6'3 250. before breakfast.
Plus I have some bikes to get rid of unbuilt.You got a spot welder neighbor ?
 
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