12fet IRFB3077 Infineon Controller and microcontroller

E

elt93

10 mW
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
33
Hi Guys,
I am new to this forum and building my first ebike. I ordered a MAC motor and a 12fet IRFB3077 Infineon controller to mount on a frame. In order to have specific acceleration patterns at different speeds, I wanted to know if there was any way to program a microcontroller and hook it up on the Infineon ESC or even better directly upload a program in this ESC to do just that? I can't find any info online on whether this ESC will allow me to do that or not.
Thanks for your time and help!
Best regards,
Eliott Wertheimer
 
You would need to learn MCU motor control programming for that specific MCU, then get a bare MCU of that type and put your program in it, if you want it in the main motor controller itself.

Otherwise you can use something external to control the throttle input voltage, and program just that.

Or you might look into the Cycle Analyst at ebikes.ca
 
Thanks!
So basically, either I code an ESC in an MCU from zero with the added functionalities I want or I control the throttle voltage before it is sent to the ESC? The latter seeming a lot simpler!
 
Hi Guys,
I've got a Mac Motor hooked on a 12 fet em3ev controller and a Cycle Analyst. Although connected to the speed pin from the controller, the cycle analyst only returns a speed when plugged to the magnet. So I tried measuring a signal from the speed pin of the controller and obtained a base voltage of 5V which goes down to 2.5V whatever the rotational speed. I also tried measuring signals directly from the motor's hall sensors but none of them are proportional to rotational speed. It's more of a 0 to 2,5 or 5v and vice versa if the motor is turning (at any speed). How can I extract speed data directly from the motor without using a magnet?
Thanks!
PS: I'm trying to make my own cycle analyst as a project with an arduino and I'd like not to have to use a a magnet speedometer, just the motor's readings if possible.
Thanks for your help!
 
Mac motors speed sensor pulses stop whenever the throttle is released due to the one-way clutch in the motor. So it will not read speed except when the throttle is open and the motor is spinning under power. When the gear whine stops the motor inside the hub is not spinning.

There should be a pulse train on the speed line when the motor is powered and rotating, but it will stop (or nearly stop) when the motor coasts. Use a scope to look at the speed signal. A meter will show 2.5V on a 5V pulse train with 50% duty cycle. An Arduino can be used to count the pulses per unit time or the time per pulse to determine speed, but it will only read when under power, so it will make an intermittent speedometer.
 
Hi Guys,
So I recently acquired a full kit from EM3EV, including a battery, twist throttle, MAC Motor, Cycle Analyst, 12fet controller. I wanted to know if any of you would have the documentation or could explain to me how does the throttle work exactly from the twist. What are each output and input wires for and how does it function signal and voltage wise? I tried measuring with a multimeter the voltage that it sends to the controller and obtained a range of 0.8V to 3.6V. However, I am not sure I was on the right wires and how good my connection was so if you have any more reliable information it would be great! Also, regarding the Cycle Analyst could anyone explain how does the throttle over-ride work exactly. I understand the control system, etc, and that it basically sends a voltage to the controller which the latter takes into account only when it is lower than the one sends by the Throttle, is that correct?
Thank you very much for your help!
 
Hi, Guys as I mentioned in a previous post, I am trying to code my own CA using an Arduino. I was just wondering if you thought it would be possible and the optimal solution to use a buck controller to step down the battery voltage to the 5V arduino input? If anyone could explain how does the CA do it it would be super appreciated!
Thank you very much for your help!
 
Send us an email, we'll forward the pinouts for the controller, which defails each pin on each connector. If you also specify your order number we will know what you have and be better equipped to answer your questions.
 
As I understand it, throttles get up to 5v up the hot wire, then send up to 4v down the signal wire. So 3.8v back the signal wire is not way out of spec.
 
Hi Guys,
Sorry to be bombarding the forum today , but encountering a few design problems. I have the MAC Motor which is rated at 48V and a 12fet infineon controller on which I plugged a battery that goes up to 57.4V. When the system is operating, does the controller step down the voltage to 48V or does it just directly supply the battery voltage? Also, I'd like to program a soft start feature on my arduino as the transition from unpowered to powered is quite brutal but was wondering if maybe this functionality already existed in the Infineon controller as I am about to order a program cable.
Thank you for your help again!
 
Adjust the battery amps to phase amps ratio in the programing. And no, I think the motor sees pack voltage, although the power charges up the caps and discharges via the FETs to drive current through two of the three motor phases at a precise time. At least thats how I understand how a motor controller works, I'm no electoocal engineer so take what I say with a grain of salt :lol:
 
elt93 said:
Hi Guys,
Sorry to be bombarding the forum today , but encountering a few design problems. I have the MAC Motor which is rated at 48V and a 12fet infineon controller on which I plugged a battery that goes up to 57.4V. When the system is operating, does the controller step down the voltage to 48V or does it just directly supply the battery voltage? Also, I'd like to program a soft start feature on my arduino as the transition from unpowered to powered is quite brutal but was wondering if maybe this functionality already existed in the Infineon controller as I am about to order a program cable.
Thank you for your help again!
Click to expand...
there is no such thing as voltage rating of a motor. a motor can be operated at virtually any voltage (within certain limits). the higher the voltage, the higher the rpm of the motor. and at some voltage high enough, the controller will not be able to handle it anymore. common limits are the caps and the FETs inside the controller which are rated for 63v, 75v, 100v etc ... several different limits. but with 57.4V you're safe.
about your question: the motor will see 57.4V of the battery, BUT i won't harm the motor. so no worries. it will just spin faster.
regarding your butt kick starting: this is a common "problem" of those cheap trapezoid infineon/xie-chang controllers. they are speed controlled, and not torque controlled. so this means, the controller tries to reach a certain speed that maps the throttle position. so if you open the throttle only 10%, it still tries to reach 10% of it's full speed AS FAST AS IT CAN. a torque controlled controller will apply 10% of it's programmed power if you open the throttle 10%. so it's much smoother.
to hande that you can dial down the phase amps. but this will as well limit the acceleration as well. the lower the phase amps, the lower the torque, the lower the acceleration. simple as this.
 
izeman said:
elt93 said:
Hi Guys,
Sorry to be bombarding the forum today , but encountering a few design problems. I have the MAC Motor which is rated at 48V and a 12fet infineon controller on which I plugged a battery that goes up to 57.4V. When the system is operating, does the controller step down the voltage to 48V or does it just directly supply the battery voltage? Also, I'd like to program a soft start feature on my arduino as the transition from unpowered to powered is quite brutal but was wondering if maybe this functionality already existed in the Infineon controller as I am about to order a program cable.
Thank you for your help again!
Click to expand...
there is no such thing as voltage rating of a motor. a motor can be operated at virtually any voltage (within certain limits). the higher the voltage, the higher the rpm of the motor. and at some voltage high enough, the controller will not be able to handle it anymore. common limits are the caps and the FETs inside the controller which are rated for 63v, 75v, 100v etc ... several different limits. but with 57.4V you're safe.
about your question: the motor will see 57.4V of the battery, BUT i won't harm the motor. so no worries. it will just spin faster.
regarding your butt kick starting: this is a common "problem" of those cheap trapezoid infineon/xie-chang controllers. they are speed controlled, and not torque controlled. so this means, the controller tries to reach a certain speed that maps the throttle position. so if you open the throttle only 10%, it still tries to reach 10% of it's full speed AS FAST AS IT CAN. a torque controlled controller will apply 10% of it's programmed power if you open the throttle 10%. so it's much smoother.
to hande that you can dial down the phase amps. but this will as well limit the acceleration as well. the lower the phase amps, the lower the torque, the lower the acceleration. simple as this.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for this, super clear!! Where could I find some of these torque controlled controllers because the INFINEON ones seem to be the only one I identified for these kind of powers.
 
depends on the money you want to spend. kelly has some torque controlled ones.
http://kellycontroller.com/kbs48101x40a24-48v-mini-brushless-dc-controller-p-504.html
those have speed/torque and mixed mode throttle, but are trapezoid ones. the sinewave (which are a lot more quiet during operation) are speed mode.
 
Hi Guys,
So right now I've got a battery going through an Infineon controller which gives me the current output through a shunt and battery voltage. I want to know my battery State of Charge. In order to do so, I am planning to firstly, count the amps outputted by the battery in Ah through a MCU. My pb is that this works well when the system boots after a full charge knowing the full capacity of the battery but is completely obsolete everytime the system boots on a partially discharged battery. So my question is: would it be the best available strategy to make lookup tables based on my cells chemistry and consequently estimate from the voltage and the number of cycles my state of Charge? Otherwise are there available fuel gauges that can do all this stuff for me at a cheap price and with great quality?
Thank you very much for your help!
 
As long as you know the no load battery voltage, it's pretty easy to equate that to soc for all but lifepo4 type batteries. There's really no good way to tell under load as they all sag differently under load depending on chemistry and size of battery. Even measuring wh used won't be very accurate as capacity of the battery drops with age.
 
Hi Guys,
Quick question, I was wondering if anyone would know how does the Cycle Analyst step down the battery voltage to power its internal electronics?
Thank you for your help!
 
This is your cheap fuel gauge

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-WATT-METER-LCD-60V-100A-Balance-Voltage-RC-Battery-Power-Analyzer-Watt-Meter-/111802104152?hash=item1a07ecb958:g:SVAAAOSwI-BWGPe3

Not that you can't build one yourself,, but you asked for a cheap one, and that is it.

Once you do a 100% discharge, you will then know how many watt hours or amp hours you have, Then for the immediate future, you will be able to see exactly where you stand at any moment.

Over time, your battery will put out less wh, as capacity diminishes. You will also have less capacity in cold weather every winter. So you do have to maintain an idea of what your actual real world capacity is.


But if you are smart,, you will not goof around with the cheap stuff, and get yourself a cycleanalyst from Grin Technology. Over the years I bought one cheap blue watt meter. And I now own 4 CA's. for one thing,, a CA does not lose it's data when it's powered down. So if you charge every 3rd ride, the CA still has data from the first one, and you still can know exactly where you are.

Wes is correct though,, for most batteries just a voltage read out is close enough to guess pretty accurately where you stand. But you have to do some riding to get to where you can guess real good based on voltage alone.
 
wesnewell said:
There's really no good way to tell under load as they all sag differently under load depending on chemistry and size of battery.
Click to expand...
Not really true.
More accurately, there's no good way using only a simple meter - but it can be done effectively using a bit of running measurement and calculation.

The CAV3 uses a combination of strategies so the SOC indicator is largely immune to sag and is accurate either standing or under load.
 
Hy Guys,
Instead of using complex regulators to step down a 68V battery voltage to 5V in order to operate an arduino, I actually tried using the 5V to the throttle in parallel which actually worked pretty well. I just wanted to know if this was a bad idea and what are the potential repercussions as well as what is the maximum current draw on this output (throttle 5V ref voltage) from a 12fet Infineon controller.
Thank you in advance for your help!
 
I can't answer your question but I piggybacked the 5V reference for the halls on my "Infineon" controller to power a 5mm LED temperature warning light and that has done it no harm. I wouldn't be surprised if the halls and throttle share the same 5V supply.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

W
iPhone App Programming CYC X1 Stealth Gen 2 (BAC855) with Eggrider V2
Replies
0
Views
1,840
wrxnfx
W
C
Chimera”... Antique style E bike build, circa 1915...why and how
Replies
6
Views
1,035
classicalgas
C
Z
    • Like
    • Doin' Science
Custom Pedal Assist Controller... Update from last year!
Replies
8
Views
1,090
zachleedogg
Z
spiros
infineon 12fet irfb3077 controller on mini cyclone
Replies
1
Views
601
spiros
spiros
R
Bafang 500W Front Hub Controller/Display Issues
Replies
1
Views
1,312
richj8990
R
Back
Top