2.2kw MAC10T vs BBS02 750.

[Raged]

I thought I'd put this up since I have both setups and it would be good comparison for newbies.

Bike 1 : MAC 10T with a 12 FET infineon 40A from EM3EV with a 14S lipo setup (58.8V) on a 29er MTB. About 2.2kw on song. Lets not kid ourselves. This is pretty much a bike looking scooter/motorbike. Easily hits 50km/h pretty fast. Lifts front wheel if the battery pack on the back etc. For the love of god, run big brakes and you'll still chew out brake pads every few months. I ran 180mm front and 160mm rear hydraulic brakes. This is close to a scooter spec ebike. Put the battery in the middle triangle to stop the bike flipping when you punch the throttle from standstill. My setup weighed 24kg with a metal battery box in a 14S2P setup (11600mah of lipo). This is throttle only without brake sensor attached. (no regen with a geared motor).

Bike 2 : BBS02 750W mid drive from eMax Ebikes Australia with 14S lipo setup (58.8V) and 48t chainring. It says 750W but you can peak 1.2kw with my setup. With the weight in the middle, it still feels like a bike. Can ramp up to 50km/h and nicer ride if you like pedaling. I run 180mm front discs and 160 rear on AVID BB7's on a cyclocross 29er with dropbars for a nice road bike feel. I run a 14S1P setup and it weighs 19kg (5800mAh). This is PAS and throttle without brake sensor attached.

Issues with the rear hub : lining up the rear brakes is a bitch... Filing dropouts... you have 1 chance to not frock it up. If you have an aluminium frame and add a torque arm, it's more of a pain in the ass to change brakes and tires. Even after I was "this is as good as it gets" with the setup, it still wasnt perfect. Things you can live with as the power of a hub motor makes up for it.

Additional issues -
- I destroyed two 9 speed freewheels in 8 months. DNP Epoch 9 speed is a piece of crap. I eventually switched to a shimano 7 speed for some form of reliability.
- Rim quality and spoke tensioning... The extra unsprung weight will loosen the frock out of your spokes, so you need to check it every few months. If you ever taco your rim (I dented the frock out of my AlexRim DM24 rim) getting it rebuilt is an additional cost and a pain in the ass. With the BBS02, it's just so much easier getting another wheel.
- If you ride in snow/salted roads. you're gonna frock up your rims due to salt. Refer to above for issues with cracked/taco/dented rims.
- Wires fraying because they're wired close to the hub and a drip loop makes the sheath rub.
- External controller. Yeah Its got more power, but you need to protect the controller from the elements. Additional work trying to mount the thing when you're running out of space for batteries.


Issues with the mid-drive. I was lucky my CUBE Reaction frame is 68mm BB so chainline is pretty much perfect. The BBS02 48t (upgraded from 44t) chainring is about 2mm from the frame. The BB screw on the left side came loose with the first few rides, but some blue locktite seems to hold it ok for now. It's 10x easier to install and setup. On power level 1, it literally feels like a normal bike and you can keep up with the lycra crowd quite easily. Additionally, having the throttle cable tied to the STI shifter means instant power when you need it. Gear changes are good (Shiminao Sora 3500 9 speed dropbar STI shifter with a MTB deraileur). I had an issue with chain jumping off with a 44T chainring, so strapped on the front deraileur and adjusted the screws to hold the chain up front in place. It's pretty rock solid now (no chain jumping).

The question : If I was to do it again, what would I go for?

I'm a pretty solid rider anyway (have a carbon race bike) and can do 50-100km rides unassisted. The BBS02 is the easiest thing to install and setup compared to the hub motor and it still feels like a balanced bike at the end of the install. With the MAC10T hub motor, you're aware of the extra weight on the rear wheel unbalancing you over bumps. Additionally, I can get 1/3 more distance on the BBS02, reducing the need for a big battery, So my vote is BBS02.

If you dont care about pedalling and just want to get from A to B as fast as possible (like a scooter) on normal roads and can deal with a non-perfect brake setup. The MAC10T at 58V and 40A or any Hub motor over 2kw is a beast. I think my next build would be a full suspension MXUS V2, but I'm enjoying the BBS02 setup way too much.

People have mentioned the shifting issues with the BBS02, but personally I havent noticed anything untowards. My Cyclocross is a mish-mash of MTB/Road parts and it shifts perfectly fine. Might be my mega-range cassette with MTB deraileur or just how I ride with the throttle and PAS1.

There's my thoughts and I hope it helps the newbies out there.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Thanks for posting this comparison, this is very useful info.

 

[Sunder]

Thanks for the reviews. I've been experimenting with and using rear hub motors for a while, including the Mac 8t (at lower output though).

I was thinking about going the BBS02 for a more bike like feel. You've confirmed for me that I am very likely to appreciate getting one. I think I will wait and get a higher quality hybrid with disc brakes before I do it though.

 

[izeman]

... With the MAC10T hub motor, you're aware of the extra weight on the rear wheel unbalancing you over bumps. Additionally, I can get 1/3 more distance on the BBS02, reducing the need for a big battery, So my vote is BBS02.

I think my next build would be a full suspension MXUS V2, but I'm enjoying the BBS02 setup way too much.

those two claims don't really match. if you the light weight MAC is too much of an unbalanced unsprung mass then you should NOT think about a big DD which are really heavy.
everything else you posted is 100% correct. i maybe would not ask 2kW+ from MAC, but that's up to you.

 

[Raged]

... With the MAC10T hub motor, you're aware of the extra weight on the rear wheel unbalancing you over bumps. Additionally, I can get 1/3 more distance on the BBS02, reducing the need for a big battery, So my vote is BBS02.

I think my next build would be a full suspension MXUS V2, but I'm enjoying the BBS02 setup way too much.

those two claims don't really match. if you the light weight MAC is too much of an unbalanced unsprung mass then you should NOT think about a big DD which are really heavy.
everything else you posted is 100% correct. i maybe would not ask 2kW+ from MAC, but that's up to you.

Haha yeah... To clarify, the BBS02 is more like a bike which I enjoy for cruising along beach tracks and pathways. I do however have a need for speed sometimes (Used to ride sportsbikes) and the thrill of a powerful hub motor is addictive. A 3KW Mxus would be an upgrade to my MAC10T. I would keep my BBS02 Cyclocross for normal duties as it is "Complete".

 

[bmrcfreak]

This was a great review Raged, well done. I have both setups and agree with all your points. For me, it depends on my mood and how quickly I want to get somewhere. Lately the MAC's been getting more mileage - on 40A its fast and so much fun. But for bushwhacking or just cruising you cannot beat the BBS02. Your review should be stickied somewhere for the newbs.

 

[Lurkin]

Keep a record of the km's with the BBS02. Will be interesting to see if you have issues and at what point.

I have just received my BBS01 back from Bafang and will be interesting to see how long it lasts for without more $$ injected.

I may switch to BBS02 in the future.. who knows. It would be interesting to see if I can get better reliability from the BBS02..

I have begun the part purchasing for a Flux Beta/Leafmotor DD bike in the meantime... looks like we are going the opposite ways!

 

[Raged]

Keep a record of the km's with the BBS02. Will be interesting to see if you have issues and at what point.

I have just received my BBS01 back from Bafang and will be interesting to see how long it lasts for without more $$ injected.

I may switch to BBS02 in the future.. who knows. It would be interesting to see if I can get better reliability from the BBS02..

I have begun the part purchasing for a Flux Beta/Leafmotor DD bike in the meantime... looks like we are going the opposite ways!

Something to keep in mind is that the BBS02 controllers only received upgraded fets last month. Before that, they used cheap fets which would pop randomly. Im running the new fets now and it seems ok in the last 100km of short trips.

 

[KINNINVIEKID]

Keep a record of the km's with the BBS02. Will be interesting to see if you have issues and at what point.

I have just received my BBS01 back from Bafang and will be interesting to see how long it lasts for without more $$ injected.

I may switch to BBS02 in the future.. who knows. It would be interesting to see if I can get better reliability from the BBS02..

I have begun the part purchasing for a Flux Beta/Leafmotor DD bike in the meantime... looks like we are going the opposite ways!

Just clocked up 3000 MILES on my BBS02 and its never missed a beat or had any maintenance at all and is still as quiet as when new.
About a third of the mileage is offroad use as well and I weigh 106Kg and the bike fully laden is at least 25Kg.

 

[neptronix]

I still like the MAC more for it's power.. if you gimp the power out to stock, you can get similar mileage as the BBS02, for sure. Your 10T is going much faster and accelerating quicker on average, do keep that in mind.

Yes, i have owned both.. i had an 8T MAC on 38v and a BBS02 on 47v.

 

[2old]

Great review which I saw for the first time. Have a 1000w, 48V DD (on 52V) and BBS02 too and agree totally although both builds were equally intuitive with no issues. I'm running the BBS with 11-17-28, 8-speed spacing since that's all I need with the motor. Cheap parts (Shimano Altus rear derailleur, Deore shifter and 8-speed chain), shifts perfectly and seems to be wearing well with straight chainline.