36v hub motor troubleshooting help needed

Jonny333

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Joined
Oct 20, 2017
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Hi guys
I just bought a used EV that is not running, but otherwise looks in very good shape. I followed the troubleshooting guide here for electric bicycle hub motors:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69441#p1047899
and it’s cleared the tests so far. I actually have a kickboard, posted in that forum, but seems to be dead there. So I will repost here:

I just got a used scooter on an auction. No brand name etc, but looks identicle to this one, except no chair and a 8800mah battery. Battery is labeled “lithium”, not sure if it’s polymer or ion.
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/gottsuprice/dendou-kick-scct/
Battery says 2014 manufacture, hub motor and controller appear to be 2017.
Anyway, battery reads 38.0v with my tester, charger reads output of 40.8v (case states 36v 1.8amp), status led is steady green. But when I plug into charge port it goes nuts with a red/green strobe and high pitch whine. I’ll assume it’s an error of some kind. Is the charger likely fried? Or it’s an issue with the BMS?
Display/menus appear to work ok, lights/horn/brake. But when you hit the throttle there’s a small jerk, then nothing. I can hear a small whine, as if the power is getting pumped in, so I release quickly. The wheel will not move again, unless I manuly slightly rotate the wheel. Then the small jerk and lock up again. There is no rattling etc in the hub, and otherwise it rotates with no resistance.
I took the scooter deck off and everything looks ok: all connections solid, nothing melted or damaged. I tried wiggling all connections (as well as throttle and hub motor wires where they enter those units) and no change.
I unplugged all phase wires from controller, and everything rotated no resistance. Plugged back in, same. Touched 2 together and get resistance, as expected. Tried all 3 phase combinations, and the other forward gets a few More degrees rotation until it stops, but still almost nothing. Running it in reverse goes the longest under power, but then also stops and spins freely.
Any idea where to start?
Additionally, How about this? Useful or junk?
New 24V/36V/48V/60V Electro Car E-bike Scooter Brushless Motor Controller Tester
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bk7ltCKG


Thank you
 
Sounds like a bad bms.... I'd be more concerned with if you have an overcharged, over discharged series of cells....it can likely be salvaged with a new bms...or a connection could be bad in the battery causing this..
 
as said likely battery pack/BMS

may be extremely out of balance

will need dvm info and likely open battery

cut cleanly and save wrap

reseal with tape or plastic wrapping

check/record cell voltages

pictures sized for forum
 
OK cheers guys. I’ll assume there’s no way to test the battery without having to pull it out and cut the wrappers off. One thing I did notice I didn’t like the look of was it has a deans connector that plugs into the recharge port. The shrink wrap does not completely cover the contacts, and everything was jammed in dangerously close to exposed frame bolts. Not sure if a short occurred there at some point.
Why though would the hub motor be jerking violently and freezing (as opposed to running slower, etc),While all the other electrical components work perfectly, if there was something wrong with the battery? The LED display shows near full charge, all the accessories power up, and the battery is reading 38 V. Is the BMS causing problems only once you put a high amp draw on it? Would it help to test the amp draw with my multimeter? If so, how could I do this, just hook it up directly? I tried testing amp draw this way on the charger, and the charger automatically cut out for a few seconds before resetting, and I could not get any readings. I don’t want to damage the battery.
I have 2 18v power tool batteries, I could wire them in series to test the scooter.
 
Ok, so I ran my two 18v cordless power tool packs in series to get a total of 40.8V, And using an XT60 hooked it into the existing wiring of the controller. Powered up and gave exactly the same response on the hub motor.
Is it safe to say the battery is no longer the issue?
Also, I don’t see any options on here for photo posting.
I checked the controller manufactures website (chinazipu.com), and none of the listed controllers have a “high-level” brake. They’re all listed as low. Additionally, none of them have an XT 60 power input. Other than that, some of them look very similar. Mine has a total of 21 wires exiting the case. Label states: current 15a; booster, 6, start strength to choose; speet set 1.1 - 4.2vdual mode.
 
okay battery is mostly eliminated

motor jerking stalling usually hall sensor phase power mismatch

possibly bad hall sensor or simply wrong combination

hall sensor color codes may not be compatible if non-stock controller

some controller have learning mode

forum used to allow photo uploads
 
Ok thanks kcuf. So the HAL sensors are in the hub motor. How can I test these? Like this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efYFOHnXh0E
If the motor is definatly the problem, I can order a new one now, as they are cheap and take a while to get here.
The controller is likely OK?
Why will the battery not charge?

Here is a video of the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwZEh_cmlBA&feature=youtu.be

Edit: this one looks like we found the problem!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4O9YQG08vE&app=desktop
Following this procedure, the green Hall sensor wire clearly has a problem. It never drops below 4.25 V (from 5v). The other 2 wires start at 5 V, and oscilate to 0v.

If this is indeed the problem, I believe I can just replace the Hal sensor in the hub ( or even the entire hub motor kit). Are all hall sensors for these hub motors the same, or brand specific?

Still not sure why the battery charger will not charge the battery.
 
Before I disassemble the hub motor, I want to confirm that the issue was in the hall sensor in the hub motor, not the corresponding part in the controller?
 
I dismantled the battery pack, and checked each cell individually via the BMS, and they all show almost a perfect 3.8 V. Guys, What can I do now? ? ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBky3f29Jo&feature=youtu.be


in addition, I have dismantled the hub motor. It’s just a simple matter of carefully soldering in the new hall? One thing I noticed of concern: both the red power wire and the green Hall wire (the one which is malfunctioning) appear to have had the coating rubbed off by the rotating hub casing. Would this have caused the failure? If so, should I unsolder and reposition the wires so this doesn’t happen again?
 
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