A123 20AHr Pouch Cell Battery Build & Info Thread

it is obvious to me characters: A0, A1, B0, B1 printed in the middle , near the middle of A123 pouch means grading.
On some cells it is a0, b0 - small letters.
By grading I mean AHs delivered during discharge tests
I got cells with such characters and testing them on CBA confirms they indicate grading.
All cells marked B always delivered less than 19Ah on my tests.
all cells marked A or a always delivered just above 19Ah or well above 19Ah.
I tested on CBA in identical condition, cells charged to the same voltage by single cell charger.
I'm sure he wishes he could, but his job would be on the line. Spouting trade secrets is never good for employment, unless it is to your competitor. :) :)
Just going back to page 37 of this thread. Wb9k stated that the separator membrane between the copper/aluminium sheets did not hold the electrolyte
The separator does not "hold" the electrolyte
That statement always puzzled me. If the separator didn't hold the electrolyte when you compress the cells, all the electrolyte would move away to the edges, unless it was absorbed by the porous membrane in some way.
Anyhow came across a paper that studied the effects of absorption of lithium electrolytes into the separator membranes. Which makes much more sense, it appears the separator membranes do absorb the electrolytes.
bigmoose said:
I am really upset that an American company allegedly did this, especially one that got tons of government grant money to develop these cells over the years. If the allegations are correct, these million dollar a year executives should be stripped financially and be put behind bars...they knoweth what they dooith.

Well, every documentary or commercial or review or something about products from Germany is described as "proven", "reliable", "precise" or whatever, and when u ask anyone what exactly in detail.... They go "hmh?" It's a myth. U saw what happened few months back. They were doing something similar in 80's and 90' too, but that's another story. Poeple are forgetting pretty quick with todays media :D
Also, check out the funds American government is using on modern stealth fighter which is still faulty and will fly for sure in next 3-12 years (lol at this).

There are zillion examples but this is not the time or the place :)

Don't make this about nationality, people(!) are doing it, not nations. Greetings from Croatia, beautiful country where u vote for ex/future convicts in order to have better future.

Also, i am busting my balls on choosing how to parent my soon (i hope) upcoming lifepo 16s or 20s pack!
Thx alot for sharing your good and bad experiences!
Wow I could download it and it was very interesting most times my phone can't download as PDF files. Very intense papers.
I mega wrap two 12s for a 24s pack to be used with 40 controller and now a new Sinewave 80amp controller 796 cycles vicpower group buy. Lucky I just.
Did test a month ago 1346wh 18.2ah with 46amp controller muxus 3,000 5t lots of hills always WOT.
800 cycles 7317 total ah 11,245 miles.
About 4 years old 24s as two 12s just been bulk charging lately at 42v 16amp each 12s pack. Balances to 0.039 no bms. 139 amp max draw on C.A.
40amp draw most of life, now 80amp. More sag at 80amp.
Ok 1,485 cycles a one cell went down cell #4 . I think there is more life in it and would like to keep it together. But need one cell .I'm calling out for one cell. If from 2012 and has 3.0v or so. Please help.

Just need one cell .
I found two sellers on eBay one in L.A. and one in San Diego. 51usd and 50usd free shipping. If in the states should be legit ? So faster and ?
Ok got my cell from San Diego. Till I looked at the cell after I punch some holes in it to bolt together. I fine there's a little Ray road track just above the pouch on the bottom of the tab next to the pouch where they have re-welded it together with some special welding device. The cell only charges to 3.36v Even after 2 hours at 5amps would not charge higher. I wish I would have fully charged and tested before I got the holes puncher. 3 hour later. Now I got to send it back and I looked at the eBay photo and he hates to have the same railroad tracks of spot welding on the cell he showed. Anybody have one cell that they would like to sell ?
Ok new idea I could just go 22s or it's will be spilt two 11s. It's now two 12s.sib packs.
As two 11s packs can I do 1-6 with the sense wires then just pull the last wire on the second 6s balance to make it a 5s but in a 6s jst connector . And use my cellog 8s and my una9+plus charger thru the balance wires for balancing. No BMS. So 24s to 22s ? And bulk charge As 11s 38.5v or total 77v. My new plan.
So Bonny replacement cell from California for $50 free shipping when I got it it look good perfect packaging and it wasn't too I punched a hole in one of the tabs I noticed that the very bottom and had a railroad track a very high-end sophisticated spot welder that did it in a track form. It would only charge to 3.36 volts an cricket negative tab that was re-welded on. That was the cell that came out of the machine that took down A123 in 2009/2010 so they're still around the shity cells.
So the battery is about 8 years old and I decided since I bulk charge it with two separate chargers that are adjustable I'll just turn the one charger down for an 11s pack and leave the other one for 12s and just use 23 original selves of course no BMS. The only problem is that is I got to color code the wires for the two different packs. The reason I'm slow on the draw I was still hoping to find one cell that wasn't over at 70 or 80 bucks.
And I want someone to verify that they see no problem in doing this 11s 12s splitpack in my mind I know there's nothing wrong. ?
Hello guys,

I need some quick help from you. I build up battery for my ebike from lifepo4 A123 pouch cells. At final stage, when I wanted to put whole battery in pack, I noticed some smole defect. It looks like, that, there was no impact from outside, but there is probably some defect in inner layer. Could you help me, what can I do? Should I aware of destroying of battery because of this, or is there some risk of fire? Or could I glue it with second glue in addition with melted glass fibers? Is there some risk, that thia defect will spread ahead? Ohh, I am so sad😰😰😰


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So here's what I got to work with an A123 cell with short tabs I got it from a member here and charged to 3.6 volt he cut the tabs for kit he built. My battery uses the regular size tabs like the one just above the cell bottom left that's the positive one the negative one is the copper one I tore out from the inside of a bloated cell that's why they're so long. I want to cut them at the first red line and then that strip below it the second red line and sandwich the positive tab same for the negative tab I'm going to use copper rivets but as you can see on the one balance wire the copper rivets or rather long I guess I could cut them in half and still use them to ribbit the tab the cell and the long flat washer piece of the tab so it'll be three pieces that are copper rivets where the dots are. This is the outside negative cell so I can have the titty pointing outward with no problem without touching other cells in the packs as it the end cell. It's a 12s pack with two 6s balance wires no bms.8 plus years old and use as 24s @60 amps.What do you think about the copper rivets on a tab.
As long as you can get the rivets in without drilling into a cell or shorting anything, it works well. I did something similar on a surplus Fisker A123 pack.

Plus I'm using Noalox anti-oxidant as anti-corrosion m for better continuity because of the aluminum copper connections. Is this the right juice ?
So not the prettiest when I was hammering down the copper rivets with a hammer I put both tabs on the same anvil at the same time a little bit of sparkle.
That seems like it should work fine. You could probably get away with fewer rivets depending on the current. I haven't heard of Noalox before, but any kind of dielectric grease should be good. My application is indoors so I didn't even bother with any. As long as the rivets have enough compression, there won't be much oxidation around the rivets.
Noalox is the stuff to be used when you have aluminum house wire and what to add copper wire for a run. I think it's made to keep continuity between aluminum and copper so there's not a Hotpoint if you just use bear aluminum and bare copper then put one of those twisties that would be a hotspot. Just from my understanding.wow those tabs really didn't look that bad it's kind of a shading problem plus one is copper can played in from the other one that's aluminum tin plated or maybe just aluminum ?
Noalox is a product specifically formulated to not only provide corrosion protection but also to improve the electrical connection itself. Unlike dielectric grease or Vaseline, it conducts electricity. It fills the tiny voids between the connectors with and lowers the resistance.Jun
Ok one more cell went dead. so I have that riveted one and this was a 24s pack and will leave the copper rivet cell and run one as 11s and one as 12s still good for 62v lvc controller cutoff. No bms just balance wires. I don't see there with there would be a problem with running a 12s and 11s in series ??8 plus years old and 1,520 charge cycles.