AliBaba purchase vs homebrew 4 go anywhere fat-ish bike.

[g-man]

Hello, all. Completely new topic for me, but I've watched every YouTube review of every ebike I could find, a dozen or so build videos, checked every listing for amazon, ebay, alibaba, etc. Trying to decide between a few options direct from Chinese manufacturers and doing a homebrew. Just looking for any input from those who've made it to the other side of the chasm.

I'm in Florida, and looking for a cross between the go anywhere handling of a motocross bike, and the ability to ACTUALLY go anywhere without being arrested, paying for insurance, etc. (roads, bike paths, etc)... oh, and just to muck things up, I want to be able to go on sandy trails too, if not outright beaches. Ebikes are not popular here, so it's probably possible to go incognito as far as motorized vehicle bans on nearby paths so long as it LOOKS like a bike. No, I'm not looking to speed past people or use motors around other cyclists, and yes, I'm aware of the basic issues there. I just don't want to have to buy one bike for the the nearby bike trails, another bike for the dirt trails once I reach them, and yet another for electric assist on the street. One bike to rule them all. Common sense applied. I'm a responsible(ish) adult. Promise(ish).

Not entirely sure I'm prepared to sacrifice agility needed to go for full fatbike, but sandy trails around here means 2.5" tires is probably a minimum. I do like, however, that some of the fatbikes do have beefed up fiddly bits which translate well to conversion.

So, here's what my research has led me to:

Cost: Under $2k, so self build, limited domestic options, or order from China via AliBaba.

Tires: 2.5 - 4"

Frame: Full suspension if 2.5" tires, Front only is probably ok if running 4" fatties.

Battery: Looking for beefy high power with low slung weight, so biggest I can fit in triangle or otherwise centrally frame mounted. 10Ah minimum.

Motor: Able to pull me up a hill without assist. I'd guess 750 watt, 48v would be a minimum. Want quiet and minimal maintenance, so leaning toward rear hub.

Gears: Mountain bike type ratio options. No fixed gear cruiser. I want this to be a fully functional MB with the batteries disconnected.

Style: Pedal assist and throtle. I want solid uncompromised grips, so either thumb throtle, or grip that can be disabled with handy button.

Gettin geeky: I've done a lot of reading up lately on drive systems, brake and shift inhibitors, torque sensors, etc. I realize a lot of that stuff applies more to mid-drive systems, but if I do a custom build, I would like to retain as much advanced functionality as possible, so if there's any way to get regen breaking, or any other intelligent functionality out of the power setup, I'm all for it. Definitely want intelligent charging.

Dual drive: Can't help it, I'm just fascinated with the idea of going AWD (especially with all the sand around here). I've read a few threads on here about potential issues with front wheel spinning out, or steering issues, but thought I'd toss AWD into the mix to see if there's any feedback on that topic specifically for a beefier all-terrain ride like this.

The elephant in the room: I'm just going to start by assuming that every company in existence will be out of business in the next few years, that any custom parts will fail, and that the coming zombie apocalypse will severely hamper my ability to source replacement parts. The more standard and off the shelf, the better. The more hackable the firmware, the better. Looking for standard and interchangeable parts wherever possible. The mad scientist in me can't help but wonder if I'll want to beef up the power supply, etc. The last thing I want is a broken ebike that fails at being a standalone mountain bike. This is actually my main reason for considering self build.

Here's a couple examples of bikes I've found that are contenders for one reason or another:

http://ezbike.en.alibaba.com/produc...wheel_suspension_dirt_bike_electric_bike.html

OK, so not really incognito, but nito nonetheless. I think the tires are only like 2.24", but I like that it's NOT spoke wheels, they make a 750W version too, as well as a fatbike version with 4" tires (though that one has 12 guage spoke wheels). Keep coming back to this one, though, because it just looks extremely agile like it could run up a flight of stairs better than Rocky. Trail cops might take issue with it though... if they could catch me. There's a US seller that started reselling these (at twice the cost) recently as well.

A more incognito option might be this:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...60379347626.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.tOb9Lt

Still got a big ol' battery hump, but looks pretty modular, and like it fits the overall bill, though sacrificing agility for tires approaching monster truck status.

Definitely looks like an ebike if you know what to look for (though I'm not sure many people around here do).

The true incognito option would be one of those bullet style battery packs that looks like a water bottle, but that appears to be a 36v and around 9Ah or so only option.

So, perhaps I am better off with one of the less obtrusive integrated frames like this:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...60462658831.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.hrgaJ8

Although... that leads me back to the proprietary issue. You know... zombies and all.


Dunno. Thinking out loud. Looking for three actually (me, wife, kid), so may try three different approaches just for variety.

Thoughts? Concerns? Did you once sound noobish like me, and are now a wanted criminal for trail violations? Self-build issues I haven't considered? Regret going full fatty? Wish you were more incognito? Less? Other safety issues? AliBaba nightmares?

Sock it to me.

 

[spinningmagnets]

As a general rule of thumb, Alibaba is geared to bulk wholesale purchases, with a Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ). Most people who want to risk buying from the Chinese "ebay", make an individual purchase from "Aliexpress"

Whatever you get, I'd suggest getting one sample and riding it around for a few days. At least then...if you realize you would actually prefer something a little "more", then you have the opportunity to upgrade some part of the choice.

 

[g-man]

Yeah, I know. I've bought a few things on there. Looking only at vendors that allow sample purchases (1 item). Always the chance that literally every name brand component is fake, but I've also found that some of them (for other purchases) are the same exact factories producing the same exact items for the US resellers. Anyway, just using examples and price comparison to what's possible in diy range.

Can't really test anything around here. No samples to be had. One shop 45 minutes away that has some basic 350 watt or less models. Just got back from Colorado, though, and tried several bikes while out there (not electric). The fatbikes were good, but they were carbon fiber, expensive, and otherwise not suited to the project.

If I do go diy, I think I'll probably find a used bike on craigslist that has the frame type and components I'm looking for.

Mainly, since I've never done an ebike before, and don't know anyone who has, I'm looking for any insights into the thought process... anything I'm missing or should look out for with the particular approach I'm taking, that kind of thing. I feel like I've at least figured out a few things like wider tires, good brakes, at least decent front suspension, hub motor, bigger higher voltage battery carried low and central, smart charger,etc.

 

[dogman dan]

I think you just convinced yourself to DIY.

As for the zombie apocalypse, don't worry. DIY E bikes are addictive, and soon you'll have 3 batteries, 2 e bikes, and a few spare motors and controllers in your garage. Like the rest of us ES junkies have. Along the way, you'll learn the basic skills needed to make any motor run on whatever controller is handy, and how to repair simple things like the hall sensors in a motor.

Best advice at this point, assuming you aren't too worried about watt limits or speed laws.

500w rated gear motor, rear. This is like a Mac, 8 fun, or whatever. Not the tiny 250w motors. 20-25 amps controller, that can do 36 or 48v. this give you up to 1000w if you want it.

This motor hides behind your gear cluster and disc brake pretty good, so not instantly obvious it's a medium high power e bike.

Put it on a decent quality MTB, with only front shocks. Most can carry a 2.5 inch tire, unless it's the cheapo type. The battery can go in the frame triangle, in a bag, or get the type that goes on the bottle mounts. If you really want a fat bike, then you have to get a special, longer axle motor. EM3ev has them I think.

Just my bias, but I think screw the fat bike, unless you will be riding almost only on beaches. 2.5" MTB tires handle pretty deep sand ok, but not the bottomless sugar. The main thing is the smaller tires handles a lot better when on the street or path. Maybe it's just me, I don't like a 5" front tire. AT ALL.

Later on, you can experiment with dual motor if you want to. But that means a bigger, or at least stronger battery to dish out 2000w.

Re the regen,, that only works with direct drive hub motors. Might try that later, when you build your 5000w "motorcycle with pedals"

 

[g-man]

Good input, thx.

There are a lot of unofficial sandy trails around here. Not looking to pilot a tugboat, so I can skip the 5"ers (which probably still don't quite do it on loose packed beach), but I do at least want to be able to hit those trails. I'm leaning toward a compromise like maybe 3", but that appears to be a bit of a dead zone in terms of availability from all angles. There's a fatbike tire (4" or 5", I forget) that has a solid center line that is designed to be the point of contact on paved roads minimizing drag and road noise assuming a reasonable psi. Not sure how well that actually works, but it's an interesting idea. Haven't seen anything like that for 3". Super knobby or super slick seems to be the trend. Around 2.5"-3", and with 20psi or so, I should be fine with front shocks only.

I don't really care about going 50mph or anything, and I don't have a death wish, but I do care about torque at low speeds. Definitely geared hub motor, eh? Are those louder than the direct drives?

Also should have mentioned, there's a nice little town 10+ miles away with cafes and so on that one of the bike trails leads to. I'd like to be able to go there, lock up the bike for an afternoon, and have at it. That means I need to either be able to remove valuable bits, or have them theft-proofed. This seems a tough nut to crack for the diy without specially fabricated pieces to lock to frame, etc.

It's been an eye opener reading on here about the legal issues. Hadn't considered that I could be charged with something as serious as riding a car off road with no license or insurance. I'm responsible middle aged guy, so I don't see me causing an accident, but good to be aware of the rules of engagement.

I'm definitely the mad scientist type, so yeah, I'm sure I'll end up tweaking. I'm no electrical engineer, though, so I'm trying to get a general idea of how hackable the systems are if I want to up the battery pack, add a second motor, etc.

Not crazy about spokes and typical bicycle wheels. Rims seem destined to get banged up. That's one of several reasons I really like the first bike I linked to. The mag wheels (integrated with motor) are hopefully more rigid and strong. Tires are only 2.35" , though. Site says rear spring can also be upgraded to air shock. 750 watt version with integrated lights (and LCD upgrade) makes for very attractive package, though easily identified as ebike.

I found this video of walkaround for the fatbike version (without the mag wheels). Dang fine lookin' bike IMO.

[youtube]5YhfBnH5UKo[/youtube]

And here's vid of the 2.35" tire version (without mag wheels).

[youtube]m0ar0Pv7V24[/youtube]

These are the 500w versions, not 750, and with the cheap led controller and spring rear shock, but even via the US distributor, they're still $2k or less. Not exactly the most incognito option, but they seem to be hitting all my other buttons. Don't know enough about the exact gear and brake models to know what sort of quality I'm looking at. I'm assuming they're not hydraulic disks, but it's very elegant the way they've fit everything in despite full suspension and hidden the wires, etc. How tough would it be to add hydraulics? Does it look like I could do this without adding ugly external cables?

Also, the mad scientist in me can't help but wonder since they left the top part of the frame triangle bare if I could squeeze some more cells in there and 3d print a cover to up it from 10.4AH battery to something bigger. Other than that, looks like the basic setup I'm looking for IF I understand the law correctly:

I've been reading up on Florida law, and it appears that it would qualify as a bicycle so long as the motor doesn't go above 75oW and kills the motor at 20mph, so no license, titling, registration, or insurance required. Also appears that I'm not violating any state laws by riding on sidewalks, etc so long as motor not engaged. Still looking into local laws regarding bike trails. Can't help but wanna pack the equivalent of some NOS in there under the seat or something.

 

[DAND214]

Screw the mag wheels, very hard to fix if at all. Forget the 12g spokes, you can't tension them properly unless in a moto wheel. Spokes will pull thru the wheels. 12g is just a BS sales pitch. Unless you spend a lot on a prebuilt you probably won't be happy, do DIY.

I'm wondering on what are the laws in Florida. Gonna move year or so down there. Are you talking about Hi-power or just normal being illegal?

Dan

 

[g-man]

I'm assuming mag can't be fixed. More like hoping they don't need to be vs typical bike rims which certainly will.

Most of the bikes I'm looking at have 12g in back for the motor, and 14g or so up front.

What about the ones I linked to? They seem to have overall setup I like, plus internal wiring, etc. Not crazy about even the (upgrade) LCD unit, and I could probably improve a few parts, but for a basic setup, it's looking better and better. Still not clear how problematic it would be to install hydraulic brakes. I'd want 750 watt option, possibly gas rear shock, and maybe better brakes, but otherwise, it's pretty much what I'm looking for. Only real work I might try to do would be to see if I could fill in that empty space in top of frame with more cells to up the Amp hours.

The US bike shop prices are nuts, so there's really only the few chinese manufacturers that I'm considering... though some have us resellers (like YT videos linked).

As for FL law, 16+ age limit, min 25" seat height, 750W max, and 20mph (motor only). Under that, it's a bicycle which means allowed everywhere unless prevented by local jurisdiction. Can't use motor on sidewalk, though. That's a non criminal ticket. $60, I think. Above 750w or 2omph (motor only), or no pedals would mean it's not a bicycle, and would require insurance, tag, license.

They really haven't caught on that much down here, though, so it might be possible to just go under the radar many places.

 

[ScooterMan101]

You have already been told in an above post to stay away from the little 250 watt motors that are sold on Alxipress and other places .
( The Europeans and Aussies have to use/buy those because of their stupid laws that the e-bikers who live in those Countries have not yet organized enough to change those stupid laws .
and those of us that want a very light weight e-bike for just some assist, need those small motors.
But for what you say you want to do , the 500-750+ watt motor is the way to go.

You can do everything you want , and still be legal by using a set up like what I have.

I have a Mac motor , with Infineon Controller, and Cycle Analyst 2.3

the only difference is you would want a Plus bike because of the combination of street and sand riding ( Plus size bike is between a regular MTB that can use a 2.35-2.5 inch tire, and a Fat Bike )

Don't worry about 27.5 inch ( 650b ) wheels, as there are now plenty of size and quality tires available now.



I bought my parts from a local San Francisco Bay Area Vendor ( Electric Motorsport , located in Alameda now ) , except for the CA 2.3, because he did not have them in stock .

You can buy much of you want from Em3ev ( He is in China but Speaks good English, because I think he Is English , and knows what he is doing , and has some of the best costumer service available.
and he is reliable. )
Study up on what speed motor you want. too long for me to go into that on this post .

The Mac Motor will run at Legal Speeds and Legal Watts, by just adjusting your amp draw from which ever battery voltage you get , ( 36 volt, or 48 volt or 52 volt )


You can run the Mac at 150 watts to 200 watts and be nearly silent. I do this when ever I am on a bike path , dirt or paved , when there are other people on the path that are less than 100 feet from me.
( I do much more watts than that on open back country roads )
And when you go on the road you can up the watts 750 or more for speed. It does it all.

There are things to do when building up a Mac, I can go into them later , if , you get a Mac motor.

However

There are other Hub motors from other vendors , and the Most Innovative Player in the DIY electric bike world is ... Grin Technologies

http://www.ebikes.ca/

You want the best charger, and soon controller , You are better to Get some or all of your parts from them .
They have some very good products coming out soon, that will put most of the other products out there to shame.
Front hub motor that fits into a through axle fork !
Motors with StatorAid !
The Satiator Battery Charger !
Motors with Side Exit Wires !
and
The PhaseRunner Controller !

Get what you can from Grin Technologies, then if you want match with other products from other vendors.

I'm assuming mag can't be fixed. More like hoping they don't need to be vs typical bike rims which certainly will.

Most of the bikes I'm looking at have 12g in back for the motor, and 14g or so up front.

What about the ones I linked to? They seem to have overall setup I like, plus internal wiring, etc. Not crazy about even the (upgrade) LCD unit, and I could probably improve a few parts, but for a basic setup, it's looking better and better. Still not clear how problematic it would be to install hydraulic brakes. I'd want 750 watt option, possibly gas rear shock, and maybe better brakes, but otherwise, it's pretty much what I'm looking for. Only real work I might try to do would be to see if I could fill in that empty space in top of frame with more cells to up the Amp hours.

The US bike shop prices are nuts, so there's really only the few chinese manufacturers that I'm considering... though some have us resellers (like YT videos linked).

As for FL law, 16+ age limit, min 25" seat height, 750W max, and 20mph (motor only). Under that, it's a bicycle which means allowed everywhere unless prevented by local jurisdiction. Can't use motor on sidewalk, though. That's a non criminal ticket. $60, I think. Above 750w or 2omph (motor only), or no pedals would mean it's not a bicycle, and would require insurance, tag, license.

They really haven't caught on that much down here, though, so it might be possible to just go under the radar many places.

 

[g-man]

Will read up on Mac. How involved is it to switch wattage? A few button presses? Does the controller you mentioned make this easier?

 

[ScooterMan101]

I just adjust amps, and it is just a few button presses. I can change it from one day to the next.
I only do it when I change from a single battery pack , to using two of the same battery packs , in Parallel,

When using two packs of the same size in Parallel, you can draw more amps out of the two packs together , for the longevity of the battery . ( a whole other subject of study for you , pages and pages worth.)

However I mostly leave the amp on one setting and just use the throttle to lower the amp/watt draw, when I am using two batteries in parallel for several days at a time, I have the half throttle with push button cruise control that takes care of all of this.

Do read up on the motors from Grin Technologies as well. many products there were not available 2 years ago when I bought my parts.


="g-man"]Will read up on Mac. How involved is it to switch wattage? A few button presses? Does the controller you mentioned make this easier?[/quote]

 

[dogman dan]

Well, don't worry about bits vanishing from the locked up bike too much, since a cordless angle grinder cuts your chain or U lock in under 10 seconds.

What you'll need, is a safe place to leave the bike. I mean like, inside somebodies house or business. You'll need a buddy there.

 

[g-man]

Definitely can't bring the bike inside once I get downtown. Angle grinders aside, I regularly see bikes with missing seats, front wheels, etc. Might look into gps chipping it.

I started out thinking I'd likely frankenbike it, but I'm just loving this one design more and more as I look at it. It's elegant, sharp, seemingly functional, and well integrated (integrated light in frame, dual suspension). The more I look at all the homebrews and purpose built ebike frames, the more I hate the aesthetics.

So, this bike seems to have MOST of what I want. It is an aluminum frame with cheap forks and rear shock. Available in either mag (for the thinner tires only) or spoke, and available from factory with up to 750 watt rear hub motor.

If I can get it cheaply enough, I'm thinking it's a starting point I like a lot better than the other frames I can find. Maybe I upgrade te fork, rear shock, seat, etc. Maybe I figure out how to fill in the blank space in the upper frame triangle with more cells and 3d print or have fabricated a custom cover. Maybe I upgrade to hydraulic brakes. Maybe I figure out how to get a integrate a better controller like CA along with regen, torque, etc.

Question is: I know it may be hard to tell, but does it look like this would be a good starting point for those kind of upgrades? since it already has some internal wiring, does it look like I could add the additional cables for these upgrades while maintaining the clean aesthetic? How problematic would it be to do hydraulics, regen breaking, upgraded suspension fork with lockout, upgraded rear shock, new controller, etc if I decide to upgrade?

It's definitely the best looking ebike frame I've seen, is relatively lightweight (maybe not a good thing as it's aluminum), and already has some internal wiring with sleek integrated battery compartment. Would starting with this really be worse than starting with some used full suspension mountain bike frame? If I could have this bike with a few upgrades, and a power upgrade with the ability to electronically dial it down to be street legal, that would be ideal. This 500 watt 48 amp version of this bike does not appear to be capped at 20mph as is. I actually don't care about the top speed, and may be better to keep it legal. Frankly, it's probably just not safe going over 30 or so on an aluminum bike frame with bicycle components. I would, however, like to juice it to get the most low end torque possible and quietest operation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yes2yeah-Fo...ric-Bicycle-/311553251305?hash=item488a0557e9

 

[Drunkskunk]

Those bike prices are too good to be true, for quality made bikes. A good conventional bicycle would cost all of that. A quality battery alone might cost as much as those bikes. The best thing to do is build your own. it really isn't that hard, and is a lot more fun.

Have a look at EM3ev.com while you're researching. the MAC motor would do well for your needs, and they have a quality line of batteries.

A mag wheel is generally weaker than a spoked wheel. And a spoke made with spokes that are two thick will be weaker than a conventional wheel as well. a wheel with quality 14g spokes is astoundingly overbuilt for extreme offroad sports, like jumping a bike off a ski ramp. Anything thicker and you start having spoke and rim failures because the spokes can't be tensioned properly, and can't share the load correctly.

There is no way to secure a bike except to have it locked up in doors. Bike thieves can steal a bike secured with any locking chain made in a matter of seconds. Having some fancy built in locking system will just convince a thief that the bike has more value and is worth more risk to try and steal.

I've rode Florida. While some sandy trails are passable by most bikes, I've rode a few that were like trying to cut a cake with a pizza cutter on 2.5" tires. I've sunk until my pedals hit with 26x2.5" Maxxis Hookworms in soft Florida sugar sand. Not every trail is that way. Generally, if you can see the clear defined edge of a shoe sole in any footprints, a normal bicycle tire will pass. But if the footprints look like craters, then the path is too soft for a normal bike tire.

4" tires work on sugar sand well enough. 5" make sugar sand feel like rolling on grass. This vid was shot with 5" on the softest sand I could find. While the tire hardly leaves a track, I sank almost to my ankles in the sand when I tried to walk.
[youtube]Cy5Fi3qSB-Q[/youtube]

 

[g-man]

Good info, thx.

It's always a bit of a crapshoot, but I'd have to say I have a number of experiences that conflict with the "prices too good to be true" viewpoint. I have ordered quite a few items direct from Chinese factories and found them to be the exact same items sold here manufactured in the exact same factories at a tiny fraction of the price. In fact, almost universally, as soon as someone from one of these companies has a cousin who opens a warehouse in LA and starts shipping domestically to US, prices double if not quadruple for the exact same item. Actually you can follow links and see that is already happening with this exact bike. Resold under a different name in US at more than double the price. That's on the low end. Markup is usually much higher.

Frankly, if anything, I've found "you get what you pay for" to be almost completely untrue if you do your research. VERY little of the cost you pay in most high markup situations has anything at all to do with quality. Hell, I bought a house full of furniture for half what it costs at even the manufacturer's "direct" outlet store. Same factory. Same furniture. $6k saved.

I've got a 1 TB usb thumb drive right now I paid $15 for. Ask anyone in the US, and they'll say it's too good to even EXIST, let alone pay that little for. I've got it, though, and it works. I could back up the library of congress right now for $15.

Custom made in USA carbon fiber might be the other extreme as far as something genuinely expensive to produce and highly variable from one source toanother, but we're also talking WAY out of my price range. I've been able to source MOST of the ebike stuff I see online back to the factories it came from in China. Even the bike shops that make their own are often using the same Chinese steel and alloys. So really, it comes down to design and craftsmanship.

I can't tell everything about it at a distance, but I like the design a lot, it's 6061 aluminum alloy, and the welds appear to be well done. The rest is just typical bolt on gear. Not high end for sure, but I have no particular reason to believe their lower end Shimano stuff is any worse than the exact same Shimano stuff on a bike that costs much more here. Yes, I could pay a US distributor the entire cost of the bike just for the Bafang motor and Samsung cells, then buy a frame that was also manufactured in China out of the same but does that really make me smarter?

I appreciate anyone looking out for me, but the simple fact is that 99% of people who have never taken the time to source materials like I have many times will simply shrug off anything that circumvents retail as being "too good to be true" without ever bothering to see whether it actually was. I'm just not one of those people. Frankly, I hardly ever buy any large ticket item retail. I have some unbelievable custom artwork now because rather than buying from a gallery, I tracked down the artist, met with them in their home, and had them create something completely custom at less than half the cost. How exactly am I getting less because I paid less? It's just a different mindset. And yes, there are things you need to be careful of, but frankly, I think many people have a false sense of security from retail environments. Do you really think the gallery would have refunded all my money if I wasn't happy?

Some people hack their phones to do all kinds of things. Others are concerned about the warranty. Hell, I've hacked my camera, my refrigerator... Different strokes.

If it's going to suck, great... but be specific. Is it the 6061 aluminum that's different from aluminum from the same Chinese factory being formed in the US? Is it the 500W Bafang motor that's different from the same motor in the US? Is it the fear that the name brand parts are knockoffs, or just the notion that we have come to believe that a 50lb hunk of metal and batteries should cost as much as a car? People can believe their aluminum handcrafted US frame is made of inherently different stuff all they want, but the largest producer in the US has been divesting for a decade now.

This is a sub $2k project either way, at least for now... so if I spend $1k on the E part of the e-bike, that means the entire BIKE part has to come in at under $1k AND not look like a junior high school science project... Not that there's anything wrong with baking soda volcanos, I'm just not looking to build one.

No disrespect. I appreciate a good heads-up. If there's a specific concern or thing I should check on or look into, I'm all ears.

I am very intrigued by the functionality of the CA v3, though, and the ability with the right motor to dial in more power, plus possibly upgrading brakes to both hydraulic and regen. Not sure how difficult such upgrades might be in the future.

ps. Thx for the 5" tire info. I'm a bit torn. I really hate most ebike aesthetics, so the typical boxed or bagged in frame with wires everywhere and duct tape thing isn't even a consideration. That's one of the main reasons I'm looking at this bike... it's an elegant frame that already has at least some of the integration I'm looking for without looking like an amateur project or looking to police like a motocross bike on the sidewalk.

I also want to keep the whole thing around 50lbs and as close as possible to mountain bike agility. Do you find too much trade off with the fatties on normal road conditions? I'm one of those weirdos who just loves to jump around, and down't want to miss out on that under pedal power just to surf the occasional beach. I tried a couple fatbikes when I was in Colorado recently, but they were ridiculously light carbon frames. Not sure how I'd like a heavier frame PLUS the motor and batteries with them... no matter how well the weight is distributed.

Thx for the pointer to em3ev too. I've already checked them out. Loving some of the options, but the frame they've got is a perfect example of something that may be very utilitarian, but is the exact aesthetic I'm looking to avoid. Can't help it. I'm an artist.

 

[DAND214]

As Drunkskunk too good to be true.
Shipping @100, look at the bottom and it says free? 28 miles on 10ah unassisted?
One listed at 1699 another 1659 another 1599?
Obviously you will do what you want so give us a report after you get it.
Yes there are cases you find things cheaper than you thing possible, I don't think this the case. But you never know. seller sells a lot of Motorcycle items and has a good rep, so it might work out for you. If it's good he will be swamped.

Dan

 

[g-man]

I assumed you were talking about Chinese sourcing. As for the US distributor, I've already tracked down and talked to two people who have taken delivery. They're both quite happy, though one complained because he didn't realize version he ordered had the LED only controller.

If you look more closely, you will see they are not all the same bike, but several variations based upon same frame (amps differ, wheels differ, controller differs). This is also why the prices differ with US distributor. It's relatively consistent between ebay, distributor site, their Amazon presence, etc.

That's just par for the course. I can track the whole history of variations of this bike by digging into the manufacturer's site, and their other online outlets. Navigating something like Alibaba is entirely more challenging than buying from any US distributor. The listings are full of inaccuracies, outdated info, and bad translations. I always start by trying to track down an employee who speaks fluent English, etc.

There are lots of close up shots of wiring, Shimano gear, etc. Sourcing aside, the welds look solid, and the aluminum is a known quantity, so does the frame and setup look like something I would be able to upgrade in the future if I want better controller, swap motor, etc?

 

[Justins311]

Did you order this bike g-man? Interested to see what shows up. I have a china knock-off hub/motor combo from Amazon that I paid a song for (literally, won't get into how it worked out) and it outperforms everything I've ridden at $4k+ here in town. I'm almost afraid to sell it when I upgrade since I feel like I lucked out when people tell me they don't work well. :shrug:

scooterman - I stumbled on this thread researching my "upgrade". I am looking for a nearly out of the box ready setup, I don't have time to rewire or disassemble and coat things. I can program if the vendor gives me instructions.

Is Grin or Em3ev the person who can help me accomplish this? I tried Luna cycle and they had terrible customer service. Lots of others promise great customer service but clearly have 30-50% markup on the parts.

There has to be a happy medium - I'm a reasonable person and will pay for experience but I expect reasonable prices, otherwise I'll just buy a prefab eBike :/