Are AirStream Bikes any good? (A Noob's First E-Bike Thread)

[pjpeter]

Hi all,

Nice forum - I hope I'm posting this in an ok spot.

I'm just about ready to pull the trigger and buy a 905 Airstream Cruiser: http://www.airstreamgroup.com/905_Airstream_Cruiser__26__.html

I haven't been able to find anything online about it, aside from that some people think its a Wisper clone (though looking carefully, they are a bit different in the frame). Even in terms of the company and its support, there's nothing out there.

If anyone can give me any feedback or suggestions on this or another E-Bike to get please do. The E-Bike is a 250W Brushless with a 36V 10aH Li-ion battery - I'd like a stronger motor but the price I've found is around ~$950 CAD new with HST and I haven't found anything close to that outside of old Lead-Acid bikes - if anyone knows a better bike for around the same price (or somewhat more) or knows anything about this bike and if it's at all reliable or anything at all please do post.

The 905 Cruiser also includes mudguards, rear rack, lights, pedal assist and throttle, etc...

Thank you very much

Peter

P.S. Is it usual that you need to start pedaling before you can turn on the bike?

 

[johnrobholmes]

that isn't too bad for a full kitted bike. Your power limiting factor will be the batteries. The little bafang/ panasonic motor could take some more power. It may be pedal first because of a sensorless controller, or it may be pedal sensor based for the throttle control.

At any rate, it is very similar to the parts found on the $2000usd Trek brand ebike.

 

[pjpeter]

Thanks very much for your reply. The bike is currently on sale down from $1599 regular price. I tried to find out why but the store manager says their brand new coming in from the supplier - they have so many of them they can't keep them in the store (they got 10+ a few weeks back and sold them, then got another 10+ this past week) so they're clearing them out. I almost got caught by Canadian Tire trying to give me a year old Lead Acid battery that probably hadn't been maintained over the winter (I saw them on for $399 back in May/June) - but this seems like a much better deal and the real thing. It's actually only about ~$750 US before taxes - I figure the battery is probably worth nearly half that...

I was thinking of getting a folding ebike, but I'm 185lbs and have a pretty heavy backpack once you add up the weight of my laptop and other gear I can see it being over 210-220. Plus the cheapest Lithium Ion Folder I've seen is about the same price as this used and I don't know how nice it'd be to pedal one of those things anyway.

I'm going to take one of these for a test drive tonight probably and see if it can go up a fairly steep hill around the corner from the store. But I'm definitely still open to other opinions.

The only thing I can see I'm missing that some other bikes I was looking at have is a battery display and a button to adjust the amount of power the battery is giving - along with speedometers, compasses and all those fun distracting displays of course. Am I missing anything else?

Thanks a lot,
Peter

 

[dnmun]

it is always kinda amusing to see them using terms like 10A for battery size and then use 2Ah for the charger output.

seems like someone would have noticed this in preparing the sales documents. kinda colors your opinion of their credibility.

what are you missing? the joy of rolling your own.


psychiatrist also refer to incest as 'rolling your own'.

 

[pjpeter]

it is always kinda amusing to see them using terms like 10A for battery size and then use 2Ah for the charger output.

seems like someone would have noticed this in preparing the sales documents. kinda colors your opinion of their credibility.

That makes sense - I noticed that as well and thought it rather odd myself. The retailer didn't even bother to include the capacity on their site - they're actually more of a Hardware store than an eBike retailer, though they do sell a few bikes at this location, most of this sort of thing is ordered in.

The tech at the retailer mentioned when he put everything together and tested it that one of the bikes had a bad front light, apparently the circuit board was somehow busted and it never worked out of the box - so they had to send to the manufacturer for a replacement board. Besides that though apparently over a dozen were sold for this low price and people like them apparently - but all of that is info from the guy selling them really so what else would he say...

My current bike is more spare parts than not and has to have the brake cable restrung - plus it's really heavy and the tires and quite thick - it's a real mountain bike, but I need more of a commuter bike.

what are you missing? the joy of rolling your own.

psychiatrist also refer to incest as 'rolling your own'.

Thanks for your reply man - the first part made lots of sense, but that last bit - it sounds like maybe you were rolling something else there?

Thanks anyway though

Please if anyone else has any other opinions I'd love to hear them - thank you

Peter

 

[pjpeter]

Ok someone replied that it can't be a Wisper bike on one of those other threads. But it must be the same - unless Wisper took all the text straight from AllStream!

http://wisperbike.en.makepolo.com/productshow/5658989.html#

Wisper Works 905se City S

Wisper 905 Electric Bike Range The 905 is our flag-ship e-bike specifically designed by Wisper not only for looks and performance but also as a bicycle that can be enjoyed equally with the motor turned on or off. It is undoubtedly one of the finest looking e-bikes available, with superb performance to match. The 905 range consists of four models the 905 Eco, 905se City, 905se City S and 905se Sport. The City S is a Sport spec 905 with City mudguards (fenders) and a rear rack. Motor: 250w or 350w high efficiency brushless 36V 225RPM Battery: Advanced Lithium Polymer 36V 14A Charger: Intellegent Lithium 115 to 230V/36V 2A, fan cooled, alloy case, approved for worldwide use Modes: On / off switch and off road from handle bars, throttle and peddle assisted Assisted Range: Up to 60 miles (100km) Range battery only: Up to 40 miles (65km) Maximum speed: 15.5mph (25hph) under power, 19.5mph (30kph) with off road option button activated (250w motor) Weight: Bike with all accessories 19.7kg Battery: 3.9kg Total weight: 23.6kg Gears: Shimano Alivio derailleur with 7 speed Shimano mega range 14-16-18-20-22-24-34T Frame: Hand welded 6061 T3 and T5 Alloy Black diamond metallic paint baked 3 coats Forks: Magnesium hydraulic suspension with lock and adjuster Handle bars; Alloy silver anodised with soft feel hand grips. Brakes: Rear; Alloy calliper. Front; Vented disc brakes Saddle post: Choose Kick Shock saddle post alloy suspension or hinged seat for easy battery lifting Chain wheel: Alloy Pro-wheel Pedals: Bright alloy with non slip inserts Wheels: 6061 Alloy double wall Spokes: 13g Stainless steel Chain: Stainless steel Tyres & Tubes: Kenda 26" x 1.75 puncture resistant Kick stand: Alloy black twin fixing points Lights: Reflectors on wheels, back and front and LED lights back and front Safety: Bell All fixings: Alloy or stainless steel Extra equipment: Full mudguards, Pump, Water bottle holder, wireless speedo computer

Except for the wireless speedo computer and some small things, the text is identical and the pic looks the same as well...

I guess I have to search through and try to find Wisper reviews and things...

Peter

 

[dnmun]

more typos, (25hph)? this was directly translated i bet.

this is a pedelec bike, most people here go on the throttle only.

the import bikes come ready to sell legally here in the states and europe, so they are restricted by law to the top speed and the 'off road' switch allows you to run the controller with more power, but most people here get 25mph from a 36V 10Ah lifepo4 pack using something like the 9 continents motor from jason or justin.

they mention lithium polymer 36V 14Ah for the battery. if this is really a lipo pack then that alone is almost worth the $700.

i suspect it is not a lipo pack but really is lifepo4. and that format is usually only 10Ah in those cans, so they are really stretching it there too.

see if you can find some real closeup pictures of the motor, and the battery.

they make these bikes by the millions now, designed to western markets now too. you can compare to the kahlkoffs for price too. essentially the same. deal.

 

[pjpeter]

Interesting. Looking into it more it seems the one I'm looking at getting locally is almost the same as that Wisper, but not quite. Cheaper mudguards are one thing. The battery is also stated as Lithium Ion 36V 10Ah rather than 14, and a few other minor things. Otherwise they do look nearly identical.

The AirStreamGroup model does mention an off road switch as well - the Wisper though has a nice battery display and so on, that I have no idea if the Air Stream Group Model has any of that stuff.

Will have to look up more on Pedelecs, I'm not too familiar with the term...

Thank you for your replies,
Peter

 

[dnmun]

pedelec is the term used to describe the way the controller works. sometimes the description is a term like ESC for the controller.

pedelec is enacted by the torque sensor in the bionyx type of controller, or with sensor built in to the bottom bracket to detect the motion of the crank. with a pedelec system, the amount of power delivered by the motor speed controller ESC to the motor varies acccording to how much energy is added by the rider.

you can instead build a bike using kits like the 9 continents motor, or the larger crystallite motors, which allow you to use the throttle only to control the amount of power delivered by the motor through the throttle, twisto gogo.

and then you can use a bigger motor, and a bigger battery, and the critical part that some of these guys do here, is use a controller that allows you to deliver all that power when you need it. like when a bus is coming up behind. it is illegal but seems logical if you can think outside the legal box.

 

[pjpeter]

lol - quite true. Thinking I'll still take this thing for a spin...not so sure about buying it now though - it really does seem to be a Wisper Clone - even has the pump on the side (I wondered what that was - only found out from a review of a Wisper 905 from 2 years ago from someone complaining it was so tall he had to cut it off to get the seat at the right height for him!).

AirStreamGroup isn't licensed to sell the real Wisper stuff - still it's a good deal, cheaper than if I kitted it out myself and a lot easier...and I can get home tonight with it if I was to buy it... Ah gotta make a choice soon.

Thanks for that info on the Pedlec spec btw - got it up before I came back to the post after googling it.

AirStreamGroup replied just now to my question about it:

"Yes, the 905 has a lithium battery and it is a strong unit.

The warranty is one year on the bike and 6 months on the charger and battery.

They are a current model, powered by a 36 volt, 10.5 amp lithium battery

And is great bike. Three way power source. "

Hmmm..,

Peter

 

[pjpeter]

Or it could even be a Wisper 905e - circa 2007 - tough to find a good pic but the specs match pretty much exactly... http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/articles/80/1/Wisper-Works-905e-FAQ/Page1.html

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

You might want to look at an A2B (reviewed here):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16742

MSRP is almost 3k but its easy to find them used on craigslist for about $1,600.

John found one on cl for about $200:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20981

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20991

I picked up an almost new A2B metro from a local that said the motor was bad. Great deal for me. Turns out a connector was loose on it, so now I have a strong running bike! I will give my impressions of the vehicle as I poke and prod it. Any specific questions about it, just ask away! First up is to clean the bike and do some adjustments, all the brakes and shifting are out of whack and everything is dirty.

 

[pjpeter]

Hello all,

I went to the retailer, was an extra 30 minute detour but I thought it might be worth it. I brought my helmet for a test drive. To make a long story short, when I got there they told me there are two different models, one that you must pedal first and another that you can just use the throttle from a stop. I said, great, I'll take the full throttle one. Didn't have it, it was out for a demo. So Ok, I say I'll take one and go to the nearby very steep hill so I can get up it - if it works (as they said it would) and I only have to pedal as if it was flat ground (as they said) then I'd figure the 250W Brushless motor was enough and take the cheap bike. It worked ok, I could feel the power - for the first 50 meters or so. Then the throttle died. I thought I was just doing things wrong - I only had 15 minutes to test drive it, so I went down the hill anyway. It was completely dead tho - so I had to pedal real hard back up.

I told them, they couldn't believe it - they got another bike out (also pedal first) and it had a broken light. When I looked closely I found it even had the copper exposed at one point where the cord wraps around the frame. Meanwhile the other one was still busted, it wasn't the battery - plus I noticed it was a little rusty on some of the bolts on the handlebars. So I said thank you very much, let me know if any of the others have full throttle and I'll come back to try the hill again.

So it seems all the bikes have one issue or another - it's junk stock. That's why it's 50% off - each bike is made from spare parts. Even the parts that should be fine are often broken or badly fitting - like the LED lights (which in both cases are just AAA seperate ones).

I'm wondering if there is some option to switch between full throttle/Pedal Assist only - there was no Off Road button, but there was a battery charge indicator.

Oh and he confirmed - it is a Wisper 905eco - it was previously sold under that name. Now its called the AirStream EV. Couldn't find any details on the battery or motor, though the manual says the battery is Li-Polymer and the Motor is 250/350.

Not sure where to go from here if it's even worth going back - it's too bad too, would have been a nice deal... they all have a 3 month warranty on battery, 5 year on frame and 1 year on other parts (if I remember that last part correctly).

Will look up the A2B, thanks Mitch - any other comments are welcome as well.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[pjpeter]

P.S. I figured out why some of these bikes were throttle first and others only Pedlecs - it's because their made from spare parts from both Regions! The 905eco is customized to various countries, so those motors/systems were made for Europe, but here in Canada it's totally legal to throttle first. The guy at the store was trying to convince me it was a safety feature to keep kids from turning it on from a stop - nah - that's what the key is for - this is just regs.

He kept telling me it was sold below cost, etc.. - of course if it is then there's a catch. Junk parts and left overs is the catch.

Wonder if the batteries are even any good - they could be 3 years old for all I know... ahhhhh...

Deal that's too good to be true

Peter

 

[ron bruce]

...if anyone knows a better bike for around the same price (or somewhat more...

I don't know about reliability or much of anything but I'm trying to figure out whether I'll do a conversion myself or buy an ebike off the shelf so to speak. My friends tease that I could never do a conversion so I'll probably have to attempt it to prove them wrong nevertheless....

I'm in Canada too and have also looked at Veloteq ebikes such as the Ranger. The distributor here in Vernon, BC emailed to say they were on special right now for $999. Looks like they'll be coming out with their new Velotreq bikes soon.

Then there is R Martin ebikes in Texas, shipping to BC for about $160 and the bikes are around 1K USD.

Then there is the infamous no one's heard of it, Chinese ebike here in Richmond, the Cabbike1, for around $850 or so if their website ever decides if it's in stock or not.

Also I'm seeing Luxor Health Electric Bike ads poke up all over 'buy and sell stuff online' sites. Supposedly they're an expensive ebike in France and all the posts seem to originate from just outside various cities so perhaps a supplier without a website yet.

With my research I'm seeing that most of these bikes are probably from the same place in China. A lot of them sure look the same and with similar options. Supposedly Luyuan is a big ebike producer and tends to concentrate on ebikes and not go into everything else like making overhead projectors (like Cabbike1) etc.. I've seen a few brands that Luyuan makes but wonder if there is a big list somewhere.

Good luck with the hunt.
If you find something good feel free to share the info.

Edit: The lack of reviews on turn key products makes me wonder if people merely outgrow them quickly, hate them and don't bother to comment or love them so much they've got no time to comment as they are out there riding happily away. Note to self, search the archives for any polls on turn key bikes. :wink:

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Ron Bruce
Here is one review.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18629&p=273055&hilit=russell#p273055

otherDoc

 

[pjpeter]

Interesting. Definitely I'll let you know.

Unfortunately I'm in Toronto, so we can't help each other quite as much as we might have - BC is definitely more of a hotbed for this sort of thing - here even if I bought the bike today, it'll probably be on ice (literally) in 2-3 months (though of course I'll keep the battery nice and warm and at a 60% charge inside .

The Ranger looks pretty good - it looks to be spec'ed just a bit better than the 905eco I've been looking at. The range is stated as lower even though it seems to be the same battery - it has a nicer cushioned seat and so on - worth the price difference definitely if its all new parts. What really sucks though is I never got to test myself on the 905 going up that nice steep hill - I know a place that has some 500W bikes if I want them, go 40km easily and I'd have no problem - they have a promotion on now - no HST - they're a bit of a drive up north to get to them. $2250 though is their top of the line model though even with the discount - looks great, is a bit heavier, has a better battery - but it has no rear rack (something I had problems getting on my last bike as well). Supposedly they're custom bikes though, made right here in Canada. Not sure where they source the parts though. Of course AllStreamGroup claims to make their own as well - but the 500W limit is something local, in Europe it's 250W Pedlec so that's why we get so many imports like that.

I was really looking at getting a folding commuter bike, but I thought when I found this that I'd hit the jack pot. Toronto is supposedly the "eBike Theft Capital" of the world, I work downtown and no response on there being a bike locker to use nearby - so they idea of getting a new $799 bike that has almost all the features I want rather than the $2250 that's missing some things...

Knowing the AllStream 905 is the 905eco means there are at least a dozen reviews I can find on it - which is a plus - though some are slightly different configurations and things... still those are mostly on fresh new bikes, not this refurb stuff...

Thanks,
Peter

 

[ron bruce]

No problem. I see the Ranger folk also have a folding bike too.

I've thought about a folding bike as well but then I'm a bit neurotic when it comes to bike security. Not sure it's a real problem here in my little town of Penticton but one never knows. :?
I'd be putting the bike on ice here soon as well. I figure they've got to have lots of sales coming up on these types of bikes.

Yes, BC is a bit more of a hot bed, not so much this far east but maybe it'll take off here too if more of them get on the road. I see a lot more escooters it seems like which is good.

otherDoc, thanks for the link. I have looked into the Europa as well but it seems like it may be a difficult to pedal bike without the motor. I must make sure I can pedal the bike so that's why I probably should do DIY and try to make it lighter. My present bike is dang heavy.

 

[pjpeter]

Interesting, thanks.

About the A2B - I found someone posting locally that they are selling their demos for $2000 CAD and new ones for $2500 - but what's so good about them anyway? Googled it and seems people like the looks, but find it too heavy (73lbs).

Thanks,
Peter

 

[dnmun]

read holmes report.

try CL too:

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/1927954448.html

 

[pjpeter]

Googled A2B and Holmes Report and came up blank - can you be more specific?

There certainly are some nice deals out there - I'm just a bit worried about not having a warranty and not knowing how well the previous owner treated the battery. I guess with Li-Ions its not as much of a problem as before but still..

Thanks,
Peter

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Googled A2B and Holmes Report and came up blank - can you be more specific?

He meant johnrobholmes:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21115#p307583

You might want to look at an A2B (reviewed here):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16742

MSRP is almost 3k but its easy to find them used on craigslist for about $1,600.

John found one on cl for about $200:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20981

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20991

I picked up an almost new A2B metro from a local that said the motor was bad. Great deal for me. Turns out a connector was loose on it, so now I have a strong running bike! I will give my impressions of the vehicle as I poke and prod it. Any specific questions about it, just ask away! First up is to clean the bike and do some adjustments, all the brakes and shifting are out of whack and everything is dirty.

 

[pjpeter]

Thanks - reading now .

Wanted to ask though, one other place has been advertising that they have bikes that can go 55km with assistance on a charge and come with lithium ion phosphate battery operated that fully charge in 45 minutes to 1 hour. Is that even physically possible? And if so is that healthy for the battery? It doesn't seem it would be imho - but I'm just a noob.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[johnrobholmes]

Charging in an hour is possible, maybe not the best for the battery longevity though.

55km on a charge with assist is very easy. They don't specify the assist level! That could mean using the throttle only once in a blue moon and riding it like a normal bicycle.

 

[pjpeter]

Yep - double checked, and yep - that's all they say. I went to this place a few months back and all they had were eScooters - not a regular type bike in sight. Those eScooter type eBikes are never meant to be pedaled, so I think that might be why they don't know much about PAS or give the ratios. I am going to a place near the store, I might stop in to see what they have and maybe do a test drive if they let me.

Definitely learning a lot, I knew to get Brushless and not Brushes, Li-Ion/Poly rather than Lead-Acid, and the more W on the Motor and the more Ah in the battery the better. Lots still to learn though.

As for the A2B, not sure - a bit pricey for me and beyond my knowledge - I noticed he made a lot of mods (and not all for cosmetics), I don't think I'm ready for that yet. Thanks though.

Lots to consider - I really would like that boost to start from a stop rather than risking a ticket for not stopping completely - I know it'll eat the battery - but besides hills I'm up for doing almost all the pedalling otherwise - I'd love it to get to work faster than regular biking takes me (I hear for most ppl it's about 20% or so faster on an eBike) - outside of that I'd like to be able to fold up my bike and put it under my desk...but not sure how it'd be to be pedaling unpowered with such tiny wheels or even if such a small bike will support me fully... lotta questions sorry

Ah me in my noobness, I thought I'd compared a few different models from different places, found out what ones were actually in stock locally, decided I'd do a test drive and then if it went ok buy it and stop taking an hour and a half w/4+ transfer transit commute to work every day and instead bike to work - but not come in quite as sweaty as I would be as when I biked to University. It's about a 22km commute both ways with 6 or more quite steep hills - at this point wondering if I should just wait until the start of next season and see what new tech and deals they have then...or clear out the old stock...arg,...

Thanks,
Peter