Bafang Ultra Discussion

[elias]

I would like to ask active Ultra drivers about reliability of the G510. I use it for commuting 50km per (dry) day, almost all the time with maximum possible power. Total km so far only 800km. Battery is a 52V 19Ah china pack, controller is the Phaserunner. The combination gives a lot of power, but after maybe 5 minutes of full power, the thermal sensor shows overheating and the Phaserunner chokes the power output down to something between 200 and 300W. When I changed the settings for temperature warning to higher values, the motor started to stink that typical smell when isolation materials are going to burn soon. So I kept a max temp of 110C°. It makes no difference if I have field weakening enabled or not. Now I always have to keep the power output down to around 700-800W, otherwise the Ultra will overheat very fast- full throttle is done only occasionally to climb high hills or get into the trafic flow fast. This is annoying.
I am the only one with that thermal troubles? I already milled vents in the left lid of the motor, it made a difference of maybe 5C°. Now I bought parts to build an active ventilation system including alum bent tubes, blowing fan etc, but I don't want no Steam-Punk-Terminator-Look for my bike!
Another thing: I'm quite sure that the Ultra is getting louder and louder on the mechanical side. Did anyone take one apart and measured bearing plays and gear wheels or found other wear?
Thanks,
elias

 

[El_Topo]

Is there a sport or MTB mode on the Bafang controller that is adaptive and uses the gyro data to help more on climbs and less on flat roads like with the recent brand name motors?

 

[mike425]

My ultra has sport mode which makes a massive difference when climbing. I can cruise up hills that I would normally have to push up with.

 

[Deafcat]

Zero thermal issues with mine, using 21Ah 48V pack and stock controller, daily driving 25+ km and 2100 km on the motor so far.

I did take the motor apart mechanically and removed all of the stock grease, replaced with Mobilith SHC 100, a superior grease for this motor. (Mobil 28 was a recommended grease but SHC 100 is a better more advanced grease).

I'm intending next to swap to a 52V pack, and then try out the EXESS controller once it's ready.

 

[Daxxie]

I would like to ask active Ultra drivers about reliability of the G510. I use it for commuting 50km per (dry) day, almost all the time with maximum possible power. ....... but after maybe 5 minutes of full power, the thermal sensor shows overheating

I run my Phaserunner at 2200W
My Threshold temp is set at 90°C and max temp at 110°C
I use the original Ultra's temp sensor.

If I bring it up to max speed/power, after 4 or 5km it will hit that 90°C and the PR will dial down the power.

But in my daily use that situation never happens. I use my fatbike in the woods, on beaches, single trails etc...
I entered an e-mtb race once. Drove it as hard as I could but even there you don't have situations where you can full throttle it for 4 minutes or more. I have some friends with speed pedelecs (45km/h) I can follow them all day without my temperature going above 50°C
But yes, take it to top speed for a longer period of time and the temp will go up.

What suprised me, with the temperature at 90° or 100°C the motor housing wasn't even hot when touched.
It felt like 35 - 40° on the outside. I think the stator is thermally not well connected to the motor housing.
Maybe that could be improved, but I never managed to get the stator out of the motor (probably glued)

 

[Sinbord1981]

:thumb:

 

[El_Topo]

The Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 and standard controller in the AM1000 rides just like a normal bike but with added power. What sort of slopes are you trying to get up? This thing will go up anything in my opinion. You might be challenged on really steep loose rock or extremely wet/muddy terrain in which case you'd have to rely on your balance at slow speed but the motor has ample torque at 160Nm. You certainly don't get full power at low effort levels. It is progressive and smooth and matches your own power input - providing more at the higher assist levels.

Thanks for another comprehensive reply!
While it is surely a matter of technique (and I don't fool myself to the point to consider myself an advanced rider), the Bosch seems to be able to handle rocks and mud much after its eMTB update.
Basically I am just an average joe who likes to ride off the beaten paths.

 

[Deafcat]

The answer to the question about upgrade controller providing more torque from the Ultra G510 motor: Yes it will, if more current is provided as a result. The battery must also be able to supply that increased current. 40A supply to this motor should yield something in the ballpark of 200 N.m, which is pretty insane. at 52V that would also be over 2000W peak power levels. I would be hesitant to suggest these kinds of torque and power loads without careful consideration of drivetrain components (chain, cassette and rear hub selection in particular).

I do hope Justin gets his hands on one of these, so we can see some dyno results with increased input power and choice of controller... I'll be able to give some subjective performance data once I get around to some control/power upgrades but I don't have the kind of testing hardware (or true expertise) that GRIN does.

 

[raceroni]

here is what I know so far, all viewed from motor-side.

• 8-pin white female: main EB-bus -> throttle, ebrakes, display uart & power (programming cable attach here)
• 2-pin blue male & female: lights connectors, 6 Vdc out, 3W max / 500mA (for both or per cable, unknown)
• 3-pin white female: speed sensor
• 3-pin white male: gear sensor ? to be confirmed
• 4-pin black female: ?

What I suppose the black one does is connection to compatible BMS over UART or CAN. The motor would forward the BMS data to the display in order to populate the detailed battery info page (on dpc18 at least)

Hi guys, I saw a wiring diagram somewhere (which I cannot find again right now unfortunately). It also said that there was a "battery communication" connection. This is probably the 4 pin connector mentioned above. So, does this mean you need a special battery that communicates with the controller or motor? Or is it optional and you can use any battery?
I would really appreciate if someone shared that info!

 

[Deafcat]

Hi guys, I saw a wiring diagram somewhere (which I cannot find again right now unfortunately). It also said that there was a "battery communication" connection. This is probably the 4 pin connector mentioned above. So, does this mean you need a special battery that communicates with the controller or motor? Or is it optional and you can use any battery?
I would really appreciate if someone shared that info!

The Bafang Ultra does not actually require battery communication integration, but it does support it. The DPC18 has a menu for viewing data from an integrated BMS if the pack is equipped with one (most are not). So yes, any dumb battery will work (up to 52V nominal voltage supported as well).

 

[Razerr]

Hi guys, I saw a wiring diagram somewhere (which I cannot find again right now unfortunately). It also said that there was a "battery communication" connection. This is probably the 4 pin connector mentioned above. So, does this mean you need a special battery that communicates with the controller or motor? Or is it optional and you can use any battery?
I would really appreciate if someone shared that info!

The Bafang Ultra does not actually require battery communication integration, but it does support it. The DPC18 has a menu for viewing data from an integrated BMS if the pack is equipped with one (most are not). So yes, any dumb battery will work (up to 52V nominal voltage supported as well).

Are you saying that most batteries arn't equipped with a BMS??

 

[amberwolf]

No, just that most generic batteries' BMS doesn't have any facility to communicate with the rest of the system. All it can do is enable or disable the charge / discharge output / input when it detects it's designed cell conditions.

 

[mwesleyroper]

I've been running six Dewalt Flexvolt 20v/60v 4ah/12ah batteries in a backpack on the stock controller. They top off at 63v. I've ridden several hundred miles with no problems. It flies like a bat out of hell.

 

[jeron]

I've been running six Dewalt Flexvolt 20v/60v 4ah/12ah batteries in a backpack on the stock controller. They top off at 63v. I've ridden several hundred miles with no problems. It flies like a bat out of hell.zoom.jpg

The caps on the controller are 60v rated, so you are slightly out of spec. Just saying.

 

[mwesleyroper]

I've been running six Dewalt Flexvolt 20v/60v 4ah/12ah batteries in a backpack on the stock controller. They top off at 63v. I've ridden several hundred miles with no problems. It flies like a bat out of hell.zoom.jpg

The caps on the controller are 60v rated, so you are slightly out of spec. Just saying.

Caps are 63v, not 60v.

 

[devo1223]

Has anyone tried another controller besides the phaserunner? I was thinking of trying my nucular 12F. Is everyone running sensorless?

 

[Gizzygone]

I’m in the market for an ebike: and keep looking back at bafang ultra options direct from China (due to cost). Does anybody know how the bafang feels in relation to the new Bosch or Brose motors on the big name bikes?

 

[Joe King1]

If you are comparing a 1600w Ultra to a Bosch/Brose/Shimano, the difference is HUGE.

The major brand 250/500w motors are for helping your pedaling, while you can let 1600w do it for you & go 30+ mph without pedaling. It really depends on what type of riding & where you ride. If you like to commute at 15-20 mph or ride off-road with pedal bikes & want to keep up with faster/younger riders, a 250w motor is probably all you'll need.

1600w+ bikes accelerate, a 250w motor makes pedaling easier. A sprinter vs. a marathon runner.

 

[Tom]

Quite a bit more powerful but not as refined when it comes to finer details like torque sensing so depends on what you mean by feel. At your price point I'm assuming power vs. budget is more important.

 

[cvin]

off topic but does anyone have info on an ultra motor bash guard?

would like to get one for my bike if possible but google search does not show anything

 

[Joe King1]

Ultra bashguard
https://www.exess-bikes.de/news/neu-kettenfuehrung-fuer-das-exess-e-bike

 

[cvin]

Awesome, thank you Joe

 

[mwesleyroper]

I would like to ask active Ultra drivers about reliability of the G510. I use it for commuting 50km per (dry) day, almost all the time with maximum possible power. Total km so far only 800km. Battery is a 52V 19Ah china pack, controller is the Phaserunner. The combination gives a lot of power, but after maybe 5 minutes of full power, the thermal sensor shows overheating and the Phaserunner chokes the power output down to something between 200 and 300W. When I changed the settings for temperature warning to higher values, the motor started to stink that typical smell when isolation materials are going to burn soon. So I kept a max temp of 110C°. It makes no difference if I have field weakening enabled or not. Now I always have to keep the power output down to around 700-800W, otherwise the Ultra will overheat very fast- full throttle is done only occasionally to climb high hills or get into the trafic flow fast. This is annoying.
I am the only one with that thermal troubles? I already milled vents in the left lid of the motor, it made a difference of maybe 5C°. Now I bought parts to build an active ventilation system including alum bent tubes, blowing fan etc, but I don't want no Steam-Punk-Terminator-Look for my bike!
Another thing: I'm quite sure that the Ultra is getting louder and louder on the mechanical side. Did anyone take one apart and measured bearing plays and gear wheels or found other wear?
Thanks,
elias

The clutch will wear the gear. I think this is due to a sticky clutch (old grease or too much grease on the clutch) that prevents the pawls from springing out quickly and grabbing deep into the slots. Instead, they make it part of the way and slip or don't seat completely before they spin and damage the gear.

The grease will disappear from the bearings. However, they can easily be regreased. They are not truly sealed. Pop off the plastic cover and add grease.

 

[Sinhu]

Hi !

I pedel a fatbike with the Bafang ultramax, used it daily since i got it i august 19. Living in Norway it means studed tires and some freezing cold rides

Now i’m planing a major spring cleaning and maintenase, and there are some opogrades i am planing to do that i need some adive on.

I see that Luna bike is selling a remote on / off swiths for the main power. That is straigt forward i think, but i’m thinking of adding one extra batteri and instead of connecting the batteries in paralell i would use a swithc.

So i need some help to set up a combind on/off and batteri selection swith as neet as can be ?

Are also planing to connect 48v headlights, taillights, horn, turn signal and breaklight. This i’m waiting for some ssr where i take the signal power from the front or taillight output from the controller.
To activate breaklight, turnsignals and horn i considor using the PL wire in the eb-bus cable.

With lack of space to hide relay’s, switches, fuses and extra wiring maybe some one here can simplify what i tend to do more complexed then nesesery ???

And what a macine !!!! feld in love from the first ride and have more then 3.000km on it since august.
Been thru frustration with getting parts, information or any guidens at all on the bike, to where i am today after countless nights on the net, and revers enginered every wire and bolt loving it even more

Greetings from Norway !!!
Stig

 

[H-habilis]

Greetings all. I'm seeking insight in diagnosing what I think is a failing or out of calibration torque sensor on my 2018 Ultra (MM G510 12) with a DC P18 display. The bike is a 2018 FLX Blade. It is right at 5850 km and has been ran in stock trim at 48v nominal. All was fine up until about 2 weeks ago when: 1) PAS became reduced by about 50% at all selected power levels compared to prior, while throttle control is unaffected, 2) And lately PAS is completely missing and zero watts output is indicated on the display without throttle input.

I split the motor 3 days ago to freshen up the grease and checked all the external and internal electrical connections at this time. All appeared fine, and no signs of overheating. I have the cable and the software to check/change motor parameters, but it seems odd that they would change on their own and the slow death of the system leads me to suspect a hardware failure. To make matters worse, I am unable to locate a replacement torque sensor at the time of this writing. A buddy who is the regional Frey distributor says he has had 2 Ultra TS failures, both occurred during warranty and the motors were replaced but had to be sent to The Netherlands for inspection. It can be surmised that this is a relatively infrequent failure item, and I would much rather have it be a controller problem, they are readily available...