jay7264
100 W
hey everybody i forgot the name of the charger that is capable of charging the cells individual instead of bleeding the high cells down i think it had bc in the name of it thanks in advance
balance charger that delivers 4amps thru balance lead
- Thread starter jay7264
- Start date
friendly1uk
1 MW
iirc 168?
jay7264
100 W
thanks so much thats the one. i want this cgarger for my helicopter batteries would be much faster than my imax b6 mini
izeman
1 GW
you could go for the un-a6 as well. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/UNRC-UN-A6-Plus-UNA6-1S-6S-LiPo-Battery-Pro-8A-Balance-Charger/2050639017.html
diggler
1 kW
can you hook two una6 plus's up to the same power supply. let's say a 12v battery. and use them to charge a 12s batter composed of 2 6s lipo's?
While the 2 6s packs are connected in series.
While the 2 6s packs are connected in series.
friendly1uk
1 MW
You can't use two of them to charge a 12s however you supply them.
It's also a waste of money. You could buy proper ev kit for less. The gains of which are huge.
It's also a waste of money. You could buy proper ev kit for less. The gains of which are huge.
cal3thousand
10 MW
There have been a lot of reports of the BC168 going bad after a year or so. They don't seem to hold up well.
dnmun
1 PW
it does appear that the fire greg had was caused by the BC 168 because it registered inaccurate voltage feedback to the charger so the charger overcharged one cell enuff to set it off. i had originally thought it had to be because of the high currents leading to sense wire/connector overheating and shorting but i think overcharging from poor feedback is the cause in that case.
diggler
1 kW
Okay so how come people are doing this with multiple different dynamic balance chargers.
Like for instance the bc186.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=114187
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41107&start=225#p761656
The una9.
I'm thinking that you think it's not possible because of the fact that while one charger is sensing voltage the other will be charging. And when there sharing basically the same point on the battery,(let's say 2 6s chargers and 2 6s batteries point neg of cell 6 and pos of cell 7 will basically be the same point) this will cause inaccuracies in the charger that's sensing voltages.
But after people have tried with success and say in the end this one minor undesirable doesn't effect the final charge accuracy or time, I tend to belive them. :wink:
The only reason why I'm asking if the una6 plus is capable of using two to charge a 12s battery hooked to one power supply in because it was said here that it could.http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41107&start=250#p780739
And what do you mean "proper EV kit"? Are you talking about a BMS?
TheBeastie
1 MW
Yeah as long as you use two separate power supplies you should be fine. I seen some people have an issue with this with psus that had a ground connection so they just removed the grounding pin which kind of sounds a bit dodgey really.
I got a dual setup but one the PSUs only came with two pins so I can't have that problem.
You might also want to check out the CB86 I am using this as my main charger and the bc186 which I have used for years now is retired to just when I want to charge all cells at the same time, most of the time I just charge up to 4.0v in two separate lots.
I think the CB86 is far more sensitive to anything unusual like a missing cell in between the pack causing high voltage readings etc anything like that and it will just shut down with a warning beep, so I don't consider it a problem.
I used the BC168 as my only charger for about 2 years until the 6th channel died, the first 5 channels still work fine. I am not sure why the last channel died, I was building a new 18650 pack at the time and charging it up half built so I may of hurt it at some time without noticing.
I got a dual setup but one the PSUs only came with two pins so I can't have that problem.
You might also want to check out the CB86 I am using this as my main charger and the bc186 which I have used for years now is retired to just when I want to charge all cells at the same time, most of the time I just charge up to 4.0v in two separate lots.
I think the CB86 is far more sensitive to anything unusual like a missing cell in between the pack causing high voltage readings etc anything like that and it will just shut down with a warning beep, so I don't consider it a problem.
I used the BC168 as my only charger for about 2 years until the 6th channel died, the first 5 channels still work fine. I am not sure why the last channel died, I was building a new 18650 pack at the time and charging it up half built so I may of hurt it at some time without noticing.
diggler
1 kW
Yah I'm thinking of using this psu and isolate it, if I do decide to try and build a 18s dynamic balance charger.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40167
It does appear that mushymelon does brake down his 24s batteries series connections before he charges too.
So I guess I was wrong about his success charging a 24s battery. (though I don't know why it wouldn't work?)
Yah I really like that cycle function on the bc86.
I just got done testing 56+ 3s lipo's (one at a time) that composed my 48v 40ah pack I use last year to find the dud.
I would have been really nice to have that function.
Also it's got to be more accurate that just paralleling a bunch of batteries together.
Maybe not as quick or efficient though.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40167
It does appear that mushymelon does brake down his 24s batteries series connections before he charges too.
So I guess I was wrong about his success charging a 24s battery. (though I don't know why it wouldn't work?)
Yah I really like that cycle function on the bc86.
I just got done testing 56+ 3s lipo's (one at a time) that composed my 48v 40ah pack I use last year to find the dud.
I would have been really nice to have that function.
Also it's got to be more accurate that just paralleling a bunch of batteries together.
Maybe not as quick or efficient though.
friendly1uk
1 MW
diggler said:
The bulk of users on any forum are not experts, they are people that need help. Once someone learns something, they become an expert and tell everyone else. The most common source of charging chatter is between people that don't understand it, and are finding their way with the resources available. Which is chatter between other people that need to talk about it. Generally on RC forums because that is where the general public cross paths with this subject. So to round that up, the only people that need help will get it from the RC community.
Lets step back from the internet and look at professionals. Many items of equipment use multiple cells. How do they do it? We have laptop packs. Power backup packs. Power tool packs. Electric vehicle packs, many uses for multiple cell packs. The designers of which are not coming here to trade advice. They know what they are doing. Each and every one of them does the same thing. Because there is only one solution. They don't ask a 14yo boy with an RC car. That boy is sent outside to charge his pack in a flame proof container at official events. Because the hierarchy running these events understands better than the little boy who signed up here and spread his knowledge, which seems to work.
Two balance wire chargers in series seem to work. They will report everything is fine. The ignorant will see this and share the knowledge it works. Very few will understand the volts drop issue behind the scenes which is giving the false readings. Even though we have talked about it many times. They will just believe the charger in front of them, because they don't understand the truth, so follow there uneducated noses.
This is always a problem on forums. The people that don't really get it out number the ones that do. Then when you ask a question, you get more wrong answers than right ones. But if the wrong answers seem logical, you will think it right. Ask about this charging on an RC site, and all they will know about is RC chargers. Ask someone that builds packs commercially how it's done, and they will give totally different answers.
I'm sure you have a list of sites you can buy ebike bits from. Visit them all. You will not find a single site that will sell you a balance charger. That is how wrong it is. The people behind electric vehicle sites stock everything they think you might need. The absence of any balance chargers should be screaming at you louder than the 14yo boy.
Don't fall for this perpetual nonsense. You don't need an electric knowledge to see it's wrong. If you need further proof, read the disaster thread. It is said that one properly made pack burnt when at was punctured in a crash a few years ago. Recently I hear an RC battery just lit up sat on a shelf. Their are dozens of other fires though, all of which have the root cause of RC charging. Lost bikes, lost garages, lost houses. All burnt because of the perpetual nonsense of telling newbies to use RC gear. Some people have had numerous fires, and still advise you follow their example.
Wise up, or burn up.
Even a successful RC user spends days of his life swapping wires around wires during a packs life. Do you have days to waste? He also pays more for his kit, do you have money to waste? He also has no cell monitoring, do you want to buy this separately? He spends a lot of time measuring this n that, wouldn't you rather have that automated 24/7?
There is no case for RC chargers here. In every respect is costs more and you get less benefits and more jobs to do. It's just a big mess.
If you want to run 12s, glance over the yginrut thread. That is how to do it properly. Using the parts all battery professionals use. Which are better and cheaper. This is a no brainer. Unless your a no brainer.
diggler
1 kW
okay so yes our talking about a bms.
But also the prebuilt ebikes don't come with lipo either.
No company in there right mind is going to sell a bike that may catch fire.
No matter what all lipo, bms or not, are capable of catching fire.
And no company would sell a bike you got to brake down the connections and charge with a hobby charger.
I get your point that we as DIY builders should try and mimic the way companies do things for safety, reliability and convenience.
But I don't get why you think it's cheaper?
I bought enough lipo and a charger for under 500 usd to get me 50 miles to a charge from 4.1v to 3.6v and used it all last summer.
Once I knew the batteries were getting low ~3.7v I'd plug in the low volt alarms and a way I'd go till one started beeping at 3.6v.
Then I'd parallel balance charge the hole pack every time. (yep all 56 3s lipo's) Not perfectly safe but reasonable.
And once one of the lipo's started going bad I knew right away. I could see one bank was lower than the rest at the end of the day and it started to take longer and longer to charge.
Now I cant even find enough Li io 18650 cells to make a 12s 40ah pack for 500.
Can you?
Then a bms and a bulk charger.
Also at the moment I'm reconfiguring those for a 18s 65a discharge application.
This is easily done.
But I'd have to buy another bms and bulk charger if I did it that way.
And I haven't priced a bms like that yet but from what little I've read for those volts and amps there like 200 bucks?
In short thanks for your input.
It's always good to be reminded that the lipos are dangerous.
And you got me thinking how nice it would be to have a worry free and convenient system.
In the future I will strive for this.
Just more motivation for the adaptto
But also the prebuilt ebikes don't come with lipo either.
No company in there right mind is going to sell a bike that may catch fire.
No matter what all lipo, bms or not, are capable of catching fire.
And no company would sell a bike you got to brake down the connections and charge with a hobby charger.
I get your point that we as DIY builders should try and mimic the way companies do things for safety, reliability and convenience.
But I don't get why you think it's cheaper?
I bought enough lipo and a charger for under 500 usd to get me 50 miles to a charge from 4.1v to 3.6v and used it all last summer.
Once I knew the batteries were getting low ~3.7v I'd plug in the low volt alarms and a way I'd go till one started beeping at 3.6v.
Then I'd parallel balance charge the hole pack every time. (yep all 56 3s lipo's) Not perfectly safe but reasonable.
And once one of the lipo's started going bad I knew right away. I could see one bank was lower than the rest at the end of the day and it started to take longer and longer to charge.
Now I cant even find enough Li io 18650 cells to make a 12s 40ah pack for 500.
Can you?
Then a bms and a bulk charger.
Also at the moment I'm reconfiguring those for a 18s 65a discharge application.
This is easily done.
But I'd have to buy another bms and bulk charger if I did it that way.
And I haven't priced a bms like that yet but from what little I've read for those volts and amps there like 200 bucks?
In short thanks for your input.
It's always good to be reminded that the lipos are dangerous.
And you got me thinking how nice it would be to have a worry free and convenient system.
In the future I will strive for this.
Just more motivation for the adaptto
