Balance wiring harness

[camerart]

Hi,

I'm building a battery pack using these batteries: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=26664

I've been using them with 3x in series, making 36V, and they have been working ok. I've just received a 1000W balance charger, so now I want to parallel 3x 3x in series batteries making a 27Cell pack.

You can see there are balance leads on each battery. I want to make some leads for balance charging, terminating with one large one for the charger socket. See attachment. I want to leave this set-up when riding, is this ok? I understand that if any cells are out of balance, the balance leads will be taking the current, so I will add resistors, are there suggestions for the resistor value please?

Camerart. EDITED IMAGE

 

[100volts+]

subscribed

 

[dogman dan]

The diagram is not quite right, or I'm looking at it funny. Threre are four wires to the plug from each 3s pack.

On each pack, the negative wire (usually a black one) is terminal 0. Then the rest are 1,2,3 positive. 3+ of pack one and 0- of pack two are parallel connected, and becomes 4+ of the main large plug. And so on.

I tried to re draw that diagram, adding the negative wires you have omitted, but it's too messed up for me to fix.

First thing, not shown on the diagram, is that all 4 balance wires on all 3 packs of each parallel set need to be paralleled.

Then you can combine as I said above, to get from 12 wires, to 10, for the one negative pin and 9 positive ones.

 

[megacycle]

I've been using them with 3x in series, making 36V, and they have been working ok. I've just received a 1000W balance charger, so now I want to parallel 3x 3x in series batteries making a 27Cell pack.

.
What charger are you using, to ascertain the balance connection socket/s?

You can see there are balance leads on each battery.
I want to make some leads for balance charging,

.
Hobbyking do a number of premade cables, there's a 6x 3S, you could just use 3 sockets on it and pull the single male socket pins out to push them into your bigger socket, or cut them off to fit your own.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?cwhl=XX&pc=408&idCategory=462&curPage=1&v=&sortlist=&sortMotor=&LiPoConfig=&CatSortOrder=desc

I want to leave this set-up when riding, is this ok? I understand that if any cells are out of balance, the balance leads will be taking the current, so I will add resistors, are there suggestions for the resistor value please?

With lipo if your not using a bms and the batteries are the same and new or used together, lipo cells stay pretty well balanced, best things to get if you havnt got a Cycle Analyst, is a small, quality, digital wattmeter you fit where you can see it and celllog 8 from HK too and set lipo limit alarms.
This way what you have is a form of manual BMS, were you are the BMS, if you want to use your battery to say 75% of capacity before charging, work out your approximate riding usage and estimate when you need to get home for a charge, from your used watthours.
The cellogs are really great, versatile, accurate little gadgets, shame you have 9S because they are 8S, so you need two, they can both alarm at a cell level fault and have an output to trigger and you could set the pack voltage alarm, instead of the wattmeter, to indicate when you need a charge.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10952__Cell_Log_8M_Cell_Voltage_Monitor_2S_8S_Lipo.html

Balancing for your pack is still occurring with your balance charger, which its good to have happen occasionally, to keep in check any out of balance.

 

[camerart]

The diagram is not quite right, or I'm looking at it funny. Threre are four wires to the plug from each 3s pack.

On each pack, the negative wire (usually a black one) is terminal 0. Then the rest are 1,2,3 positive. 3+ of pack one and 0- of pack two are parallel connected, and becomes 4+ of the main large plug. And so on.

I tried to re draw that diagram, adding the negative wires you have omitted, but it's too messed up for me to fix.

First thing, not shown on the diagram, is that all 4 balance wires on all 3 packs of each parallel set need to be paralleled.

Then you can combine as I said above, to get from 12 wires, to 10, for the one negative pin and 9 positive ones.

I've altered the drawing, have another look, to see if it's clearer.

C.

 

[camerart]

I've been using them with 3x in series, making 36V, and they have been working ok. I've just received a 1000W balance charger, so now I want to parallel 3x 3x in series batteries making a 27Cell pack.

.
What charger are you using, to ascertain the balance connection socket/s?

You can see there are balance leads on each battery.
I want to make some leads for balance charging,

.
Hobbyking do a number of premade cables, there's a 6x 3S, you could just use 3 sockets on it and pull the single male socket pins out to push them into your bigger socket, or cut them off to fit your own.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?cwhl=XX&pc=408&idCategory=462&curPage=1&v=&sortlist=&sortMotor=&LiPoConfig=&CatSortOrder=desc

I want to leave this set-up when riding, is this ok? I understand that if any cells are out of balance, the balance leads will be taking the current, so I will add resistors, are there suggestions for the resistor value please?

With lipo if your not using a bms and the batteries are the same and new or used together, lipo cells stay pretty well balanced, best things to get if you havnt got a Cycle Analyst, is a small, quality, digital wattmeter you fit where you can see it and celllog 8 from HK too and set lipo limit alarms.
This way what you have is a form of manual BMS, were you are the BMS, if you want to use your battery to say 75% of capacity before charging, work out your approximate riding usage and estimate when you need to get home for a charge, from your used watthours.
The cellogs are really great, versatile, accurate little gadgets, shame you have 9S because they are 8S, so you need two, they can both alarm at a cell level fault and have an output to trigger and you could set the pack voltage alarm, instead of the wattmeter, to indicate when you need a charge.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10952__Cell_Log_8M_Cell_Voltage_Monitor_2S_8S_Lipo.html

Balancing for your pack is still occurring with your balance charger, which its good to have happen occasionally, to keep in check any out of balance.

I've just received a:http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__57095__Turnigy_Reaktor_30A_1000W_Balance_Charger.html but I can't use it yet, until I get the power supply.

I have all of the connectors, and a soldering iron

My LCD panel, gives a good idea of when it's time to get home, and I've got model battery alarms, I can fit too.

C.

 

[dnmun]

you should not be building a battery this way. 36V from lipo is usually 10S and now you will be charging 9S with a 10S charger. no protection.

do you live in an apartment or rent a ahouse? or do you own your own home where only you and your family will suffer from a fire?

it is not fair to subject others who live in the same apartment building to this kinda risk imo.

 

[wesnewell]

dnmun, it's a 3 year old thread. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what he's been doing for 3 years now. A 10s charger can charge any pack from 1-10s safely. It doesn't have to be a 10s pack.

 

[amberwolf]

dnmun, it's a 3 year old thread.

:?

Post subject: Balance wiring harness
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:20 am

Looks pretty new to me.

 

[camerart]

3 year old, I've only just received the 10S charger!

Ignoring how old it is, is the harness drawing in post #1 ok?

C.

 

[wesnewell]

Must have been looking at your join date.There's nothing wrong with the drawing.

 

[camerart]

Must have been looking at your join date.There's nothing wrong with the drawing.

Ok, thanks, I'll start wiring.

C.

 

[dogman dan]

No, the drawing is still wrong. I'm seeing the exact same drawing I think.

Start by connecting in parallel, Each set of 4 balance wires. You are still omitting the negatives on some of the packs.

 

[camerart]

No, the drawing is still wrong. I'm seeing the exact same drawing I think.

Start by connecting in parallel, Each set of 4 balance wires. You are still omitting the negatives on some of the packs.

There are parallel wires on the drawing from each of the 3x sets of batteries.

If you re-check the mauve wires, start from 0V, remember that the pwer cables connect '4' of the first battery and '1' of the second, and the same between the second and third. Also notice where they go in the large connector, which adds up to the correct number of cells. Let me know if it seems ok.

C.

 

[wesnewell]

There's nothing wrong with your drawing.The mains provide the cell connection between packs for the balance leads. So as long as you leave them connected you'll be fine charging the pack as 9s. There may be .001v difference because of the wire difference, but it's not enough to worry about unless you want it as accurate as possible.

 

[camerart]

There's nothing wrong with your drawing.The mains provide the cell connection between packs for the balance leads. So as long as you leave them connected you'll be fine charging the pack as 9s. There may be .001v difference because of the wire difference, but it's not enough to worry about unless you want it as accurate as possible.

I have one saying it's ok, and one saying it's not. I think it's ok, and want dogman dan to also agree. Perhaps it's the way I drew it? It's not exactly easy to grasp, and I have already had one mini spark to prove it.

C.

 

[wesnewell]

Don't trust anyone.Learn for yourself.
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

 

[dnmun]

i agree. if you don't understand how the wiring should be arranged you should stop until you can learn some basic stuff.

 

[camerart]

Thanks, all opinions welcome. I always read up on any subject, before starting, I asked the question to get verification. So far I have 50% saying the wiring in #1 is ok. If anyone else answers, I'll wait till I get more than 80% saying it's ok, before starting or 80% saying it's not ok before changing it.

Agree: Me, wesnewell.
Disagree: Dogman Dan, Dnmun

C.

 

[dogman dan]

I'm a notorious dumbshit, despite my post count, and moderator status here.

But to me, the drawing is still wrong, with respect to the negative balance wires being paralleled. Nothing wrong with the drawing regarding the main wires.

Nobody else seeing what I am? The packs near the top of the drawing do not have wire 0 connected to the wire 0 of the other packs. he's got the positives connected in parallel, but not the negative wire 0 of all the 3s packs paralleled.

This means any balancer will only see cells 2 and 3 of the packs on the upper rows, only the bottom row cell 1 will be included in the balancing. Only the lower row of packs in the drawing has cell one connected to the balancer.

You very likely have no intention of hooking up the packs in that way, but I definitely think you drew it that way.

It's not complicated really, you just take the black wire of all three 4 wire plugs, and connect them, then after that connection the one wire goes to the plug. And so on with all 4 wires in each balance plug, leaving none out.

This is NOT shown, in the drawing I'm seeing. Perhaps you did correct the drawing, but the drawing posted at the top is still incorrect. I'm not seeing any changes in the drawing.

 

[camerart]

I'm a notorious dumbshit, despite my post count, and moderator status here.

But to me, the drawing is still wrong, with respect to the negative balance wires being paralleled. Nothing wrong with the drawing regarding the main wires.

Nobody else seeing what I am? The packs near the top of the drawing do not have wire 0 connected to the wire 0 of the other packs. he's got the positives connected in parallel, but not the negative wire 0 of all the 3s packs paralleled.

This means any balancer will only see cells 2 and 3 of the packs on the upper rows, only the bottom row cell 1 will be included in the balancing. Only the lower row of packs in the drawing has cell one connected to the balancer.

You very likely have no intention of hooking up the packs in that way, but I definitely think you drew it that way.

It's not complicated really, you just take the black wire of all three 4 wire plugs, and connect them, then after that connection the one wire goes to the plug. And so on with all 4 wires in each balance plug, leaving none out.

This is NOT shown, in the drawing I'm seeing. Perhaps you did correct the drawing, but the drawing posted at the top is still incorrect. I'm not seeing any changes in the drawing.

Hi Dan,

Were all clever/dumbshits, depending what day it is. :?

I didn't change the wiring when I changed the drawing, just tried to clarify it. I've tried clarifying again! Have another look, and follow ALL the wires from wire 3 on the 9S balance connector, hopefully you will see that the ground wire is connected, on all 3x sets of parallel batteries near the 0V. If I use your suggestion, there will be 4 wires x3 =12, and 12 into 10 doesn't go.

Let me know if I've changed your mind, and I'll let you know if you've changed mine.

C.

 

[jaunty]

I'm a notorious dumbshit, despite my post count, and moderator status here.

But to me, the drawing is still wrong, with respect to the negative balance wires being paralleled. Nothing wrong with the drawing regarding the main wires.

Nobody else seeing what I am? The packs near the top of the drawing do not have wire 0 connected to the wire 0 of the other packs. he's got the positives connected in parallel, but not the negative wire 0 of all the 3s packs paralleled.

This means any balancer will only see cells 2 and 3 of the packs on the upper rows, only the bottom row cell 1 will be included in the balancing. Only the lower row of packs in the drawing has cell one connected to the balancer.

You very likely have no intention of hooking up the packs in that way, but I definitely think you drew it that way.

It's not complicated really, you just take the black wire of all three 4 wire plugs, and connect them, then after that connection the one wire goes to the plug. And so on with all 4 wires in each balance plug, leaving none out.

This is NOT shown, in the drawing I'm seeing. Perhaps you did correct the drawing, but the drawing posted at the top is still incorrect. I'm not seeing any changes in the drawing.

Yes dan,

something looks fishy. The balances wires are going a bit wonky. The top right cell has a wire going from the neg to the pos of the 1st battery in the second row... as long as you dont have a short there youre ok

 

[jaunty]

free upload image

This looks like a short

 

[camerart]

free upload image

This looks like a short

See the note at the bottom left of the image: The mauve wires are only connected at the four wire plugs.

C.

 

[camerart]

Thanks, all opinions welcome. I always read up on any subject, before starting, I asked the question to get verification. So far I have 50% saying the wiring in #1 is ok. If anyone else answers, I'll wait till I get more than 80% saying it's ok, before starting or 80% saying it's not ok before changing it.

Agree: Me, wesnewell.
Disagree: Dogman Dan, Dnmun

C.

Another one for the disagree section.

Agree: Me, wesnewell.
Disagree: Dogman Dan, Dnmun, Jaunty.