Baserunner_L10 blink code 5-2

[0nelover]

Hay y'all!

ETrike was running fine parked a couple days due to especially strong T-storms the trike was covered and got wet anyway because of high wind and tornado watch conditions. Now visibly dried out when freshly powered up the Baserunner_L10 LED burns steady as is normal. When I engage throttle the motor stutters briefly and then wheel moves forward weakly? I think. Then the blinking begins 5-2, the manual says it's error code for "Hall Sensor" which isn't and hasn't been hooked up and PAS is disabled in CA. I have done due diligence reading all I can search up and am stumped.

Care to help a brother figure this issue out?

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[lnanek]

There isn't just a hall sensor in the PAS , many motors have them too. Often 3 for position and an optional fourth one for rpm/speed. If you go into the Phaserunner suite for programming your controller you should be able to disable using the former. It's a setting re startup that says something like "sensored start with sensorless fallback". I think you'd have to change it to sensorless if you don't want the controller trying to use them. Sensorless start often has trouble starting from a stop, so you may have to be rolling forward slightly when you try to start from now on once you disable it.

 

[0nelover]

There isn't just a hall sensor in the PAS , many motors have them too. Often 3 for position and an optional fourth one for rpm/speed. If you go into the Phaserunner suite for programming your controller you should be able to disable using the former. It's a setting re startup that says something like "sensored start with sensorless fallback". I think you'd have to change it to sensorless if you don't want the controller trying to use them. Sensorless start often has trouble starting from a stop, so you may have to be rolling forward slightly when you try to start from now on once you disable it.

Hay Inanek,

Thank you for your quick response. I bought the trike used from the previous owner's estate, the aftermarket CA and Baserunner were installed already. The Crystalyte motor isn't identified as to which model.

I intend to download and install the software you recommend and see if I can accomplish the task you describe. It seems I will need to hunt up the interface. It appears to be USB to what looks like a mini-stereo plug? I collect cabling if I find them for cheap at yard sales so I may very well have one around here somewhere. It plugs into the CA jack?

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[amberwolf]

It's not a straight/plain USB cable.

You can order the USB-serial adapter cable from ebikes.ca to be sure of it working.

Or you can use the wiring diagram they have on their site for it to modify a generic USB-serial adapter and wire your own TRRS (or TRS) 3.5mm male headphone connector onto it's serial end.

Note that this cable will *also* let you connect to the Cycle Analyst to modify or backup it's settings, etc.


The three hall sensor signal wires and their 5v/ground are in that multipin (probably L1019) connector from motor to controller. They're the really tiny pins (the three fat ones are phases).

While not likely unless you rode thru water deep enough to be over the axle height, if the motor is not sealed at all, and got submerged long enough, it could have gotten water inside of it which can cause problems reading the sensors (but it can also corrode the motor).

It's more likely that the wiring to the BR itself, or one of the connectors between it and the motor, got water in it, and uplugging any of these and letting them dry in the sun for a day would probably correct the issue, as long as nothing was shorted / damaged by the water.



If you use sensorless, and are not already rolling when you start it, it's likely to jerk back and forth for a second on a significant percentage of startups. It *may* even do this while you are already rolling when you apply throttle, but I have only had that a couple of times iwth the Phaserunner6 and the GMAC.

When you run the Phaserunner Setup Suite, and you first connect to the controller, then before you do ANYTHING else, go to the File menu and choose Save Parameter File, and then select "All" to export all parameter settings. This way you have a reference file that includes most (not really all) of the settings. (there is an Advanced Export that lets you export literally every setting if you really need to).

Then, before you do anything else, use your phone or other camera to take pictures of every screen / tab, so you have a backup of the backup just in case.

If you don't, then if somehow the settings in the BR get changed to something unusable, you'll have to experiment with settings to make it work like it used to....

 

[0nelover]

Hay amberwolf!

Good to hear from you. I hope you got your ride together and all is swell with you and yours!

It's not a straight/plain USB cable.

You can order the USB-serial adapter cable from ebikes.ca to be sure of it working.

Or you can use the wiring diagram they have on their site for it to modify a generic USB-serial adapter and wire your own TRRS (or TRS) 3.5mm male headphone connector onto it's serial end.

Note that this cable will *also* let you connect to the Cycle Analyst to modify or backup it's settings, etc.

Okay, I have seen such a TRRS cable in the BR manual and blessed if I can find it on Grin website. Amazon has a (I believe) compatible one:

USB to 3.5mm Audio Jack 5V TTL UART Serial Cable with FTDI Chipset Works for LG HDTV LG Televisions Mazur PRM-9000, TTL-232R-5V-AJ https://a.co/d/atp8IHv

The 3.5mm communications port had a little plastic pin in it and I had totally missed it until the manual pointed it out.

The three hall sensor signal wires and their 5v/ground are in that multipin (probably L1019) connector from motor to controller. They're the really tiny pins (the three fat ones are phases).

While not likely unless you rode thru water deep enough to be over the axle height, if the motor is not sealed at all, and got submerged long enough, it could have gotten water inside of it which can cause problems reading the sensors (but it can also corrode the motor).

It's more likely that the wiring to the BR itself, or one of the connectors between it and the motor, got water in it, and uplugging any of these and letting them dry in the sun for a day would probably correct the issue, as long as nothing was shorted / damaged by the water.

No, not submerged and since you are in AZ, I bet you don't get the monsoon-like down pours we can get here in FL. It can be like a cow peeing on a flat rock. We got three inches of rain in < three hours!

I unplugged the BR connector to the motor. It seems bone dry. The nine pin connection between CA and BR I left as I had vinyl taped it up so it is probably secure.

amberwolf:
If you use sensorless, and are not already rolling when you start it, it's likely to jerk back and forth for a second on a significant percentage of startups. It *may* even do this while you are already rolling when you apply throttle, but I have only had that a couple of times iwth the Phaserunner6 and the GMAC.

I experimented with getting the trike rolling before engaging the throttle. It worked exactly like you described. It is like the motor is confused about which direction to rotate at first and then gets it and runs forward. It would also stutter briefly at speed if I mash the throttle too fast.

I will need to table the rest of your instructions until I am prepared to proceed. I have saved them in a text file until such time.

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[0nelover]

Hay y'all!

Where's the best place to score a proper:

TTL-232R-5V-AJ

cable for controller programming?

I cannot find one on ebikes.ca and it seems ones on Amazon even with the specific designation above are not compatible.

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[amberwolf]

I hope you got your ride together and all is swell with you and yours!

Well....not exactly (it is *now* together after a hot exhausting day, and hopefully stays that way, but if you're interested in the various recent tales of woe they're over here:

The SB Cruiser : Amberwolf's 2WD Heavy Cargo Trike & Dog Carrier

clamping / pinching dropouts both ends, tight and flat to axle both ends both sides, no nuts needed on either side (have one on outside anyway just because there's axle length for it) is hubmotor with solid axles, can't see anything like qr axles or hollow ones? shear was at shoulder of axle...

endless-sphere.com

Okay, I have seen such a TRRS cable in the BR manual and blessed if I can find it on Grin website. Amazon has a (I believe) compatible one:

USB to 3.5mm Audio Jack 5V TTL UART Serial Cable with FTDI Chipset Works for LG HDTV LG Televisions Mazur PRM-9000, TTL-232R-5V-AJ Amazon.com

Here's Grin's on Amazon

Amazon.com

and some of their other stuff

https://www.amazon.com/Grin-Technologies/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_20074800011?ie=UTF8&node=20074800011&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Grin+Technologies

or their main website:

TTL-USB Programming Cable

3m Long TTL-> USB programming cable for Satiator, Baserunner, Phaserunner and Cycle Analyst. *Note: All kits come pre-programmed, and most system behaviour is configurable with the Cycle Analyst buttons. But this cable is necessary if you plan to change more advanced controller settings or...

ebikes.ca

manual that includes wiring at the trrs end

https://ebikes.ca/amfile/file/download/file/255/product/521/

No, not submerged and since you are in AZ, I bet you don't get the monsoon-like down pours we can get here in FL. It can be like a cow peeing on a flat rock. We got three inches of rain in < three hours!

Oh, we get those sometimes, but they don't usually last three hours--we get it all in one big thunderstorm with flash floods, as if someone took a gigantic herd of water-filled cows and cut them all open at the same time.

Didn't really get a huge one this year, but a few years back we got two in one summer, and I've (at least twice) had to finish my ride home from work in one, with foot-deep+ water flooding the trike (all the electrical stuff is bolted to the bottom of it, except the batteries which are inside the box under the seat, which is not waterproof). Made it home fine, but had to take the batteries apart and dry them out in a hurry.... (the stuff under the trike is sealed well enough to not have failed from any ingress, or open enough to dry out easily on it's own).

Sometimes we get a drizzle that lasts for hours or even a day or two, with some real rain during parts of it.

Mostly, though, it's dry and sunny. Or humid and sunny (but not as humid as FL).

I unplugged the BR connector to the motor. It seems bone dry. The nine pin connection between CA and BR I left as I had vinyl taped it up so it is probably secure.

Probably; they are generally pretty waterproof; I don't have much direct experience with them as I have only recently gotten the PR with such connectors; previously all my stuff came with open-frame connectors (whcih I often just splice direclty together and seal).

I experimented with getting the trike rolling before engaging the throttle. It worked exactly like you described. It is like the motor is confused about which direction to rotate at first and then gets it and runs forward. It would also stutter briefly at speed if I mash the throttle too fast.

Does sound like a hall problem--a signal error (for whatever reason) would cause that behavior.

If you find it is set to the sensored start sensorless run, then it should behave "badly" during startup but once above a couple MPH or so it should run sensorless and not have the problem until you stop again.

 

[0nelover]

Hay amberwolf,

I scored the TTL-232R-5V-AJ communication cable from Amazon saved a little on shipping, downloaded PR software and drivers and got them up and running and connected my laptop to the BR which was set to "sensor start, sensor less run" with the checked tic box labeled "Fault tolerant hall (fallback to sensor less)"

Faults and Warnings :
Faults [5]: Motor Hall sensor fault (flash code 1,6)
Warning [1]: Hall Sensor
Warning [6] Hall Transition

I backed up all parameters as instructed and as a test to see if I could effect a change I switched to sensor less and unchecked the tic box, saved the parameters and exited the software, then took the trike on a test drive to see if there was any change in function. It seemed about the same. So I restarted PR software and changed the settings back to what they were initially.

Please advise.

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[amberwolf]

If it behaves *exactly* the same in sensorless, that's odd. It should be a little rough starting up loaded sensorless, it's normal--but it "feels" different than bad hall sensors.

If you jack the wheel up off the ground, does it behave exactly the same way sensorless as it does with the original settings? (note that because the PR is a current-modulating controller, not speed-modulating, so a tiny amount of throttle can make the wheel go full speed when there is no load. )


The errors you see are specific to hall position sensors, so going sensorless should change the behavior and prevent the errors.

 

[0nelover]

If it behaves *exactly* the same in sensorless, that's odd. It should be a little rough starting up loaded sensorless, it's normal--but it "feels" different than bad hall sensors.

When I first plug in the battery to power up the system, I have been lifting the motor wheel off the ground as you described below and mashing the throttle to see if it is still sensor deprived. We have been in drought conditions here in North Central Florida and my probably in vain hope is that the sensor(s) will dry out and resolve the issue. When first plugged in the LED on the BR burns steady, after the test the error code is activated. This time I went back in and made the switch to sensor less without running the motor. No errors in the PR software, steady burning LED and as you say not flawless operation and clearly different "feel" to performance.

If you jack the wheel up off the ground, does it behave exactly the same way sensorless as it does with the original settings? (note that because the PR is a current-modulating controller, not speed-modulating, so a tiny amount of throttle can make the wheel go full speed when there is no load. )


The errors you see are specific to hall position sensors, so going sensorless should change the behavior and prevent the errors.

That does seem to be the case, bro!

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[0nelover]

Update to telling BR to disregard faulty hall sensors. It has taken some getting used to and a bit of muscle memory finessing the finer points for instance low speed driving and very incremental throttle mashing. Negotiating hills that can slow the drive wheel below a threshold where the motor loses it sense of direction are the worst problem encountered because stalling on a hill is a bit awkward. On YouTube I found a video of a fellow that made a great case for doing away with, actually removing the hall sensors, as an UpGrade has helped to reframe this change.

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[amberwolf]

If you don't want it to use the hall sensors at all, just set it to sensorless operation and it won't try to read them. That's mode 2 sensorless in the dropdown on the first tab in the setup software.

Opening up the motor to physically remove the sensors is unnecessary and has the chance of damaging something else either physically or electrically, leaving the motor completely non functional. (also a risk for replacing the sensors if they are actually defective if you wanted to fix it, but much more worth this risk because there isn't an alternative for that unlike going without them).

Same thing for cutting the hall sensor wires in the motor or controller cable.

 

[0nelover]

If you don't want it to use the hall sensors at all, just set it to sensorless operation and it won't try to read them. That's mode 2 sensorless in the dropdown on the first tab in the setup software.

Opening up the motor to physically remove the sensors is unnecessary and has the chance of damaging something else either physically or electrically, leaving the motor completely non functional. (also a risk for replacing the sensors if they are actually defective if you wanted to fix it, but much more worth this risk because there isn't an alternative for that unlike going without them).

Same thing for cutting the hall sensor wires in the motor or controller cable.

Hay amberwolf,

Thanks for the heads-up advice, bro.

Yesterday, I was slowly ascending a slight uphill grade. When I tried to accelerate lightly engaging the throttle there was a gradual power failure then no power at all. I pulled off the travelled way and checked the CA alert screen, no capital letter flags present. I then looked at the BR and an error code was flashing. Without counting to see what error code, in retrospect a hasty move, I unplugged the battery and rebooted the system. The return leg of my commute functioned fine. Should this glitch repeat I make a point of noting what error code is displayed and report. Hopefully it is just a one off.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover

 

[amberwolf]

Best guess is a momentary overcurrent from the extra load causing shutdown, since overtemperature should stay hot enough long enough that a reboot wouldn't work immediately.

 

[0nelover]

Best guess is a momentary overcurrent from the extra load causing shutdown, since overtemperature should stay hot enough long enough that a reboot wouldn't work immediately.

Hay amberwolf!

In my limited capacity to judge, I agree. I did put my hand on both sides of the motor at the time of the fail and it was just slightly above ambient temperature. The two times that the motor operation, post disregarding hall sensors, is likely to stutter is going too slowly and throttling up too quickly. Good to know there is a at least momentary consequence to making it stutter and best avoided as much as possible of course.

Happy Holidays!

Thanks for Everything!
One Love, 0nelover