Battery Charging Question: LiFePO4 and Li-Ion

[markz]

I got this stuck in my head, so I figure I will see if its rationale. I just want to save $60 in buying a 2nd charger.

LiFePO4 and Li-Ion chargers; Can one be used with the other, if the end voltages are close?
Or is there a specific charging pattern that goes on with each charger for different chemistries.

Example #1 : 16S LiFePO4 charger from EM3ev is 58.4V and the 14S Li-Ion charger has 3 settings, 58.8V, 57.4V and 53.2V.
Example #2 : 12S LiFePO4 charger from EM3ev is 43.8V and the 10S Li-Ion charger has 3 settings, 42V, 41V and 38V.

#1- A123 M1A's will be a bit HIGHER charging LiFePO4 batteries on a Li-Ion charger. 3.67V per can on the Li-Ion charger instead of 3.65V on the LiFePO4 charger.

#2- A123 M1A's will be a bit LOWER charging LiFePO4 batteries on a Li-Ion charger. 3.5V per can on the Li-Ion charger instead of 3.65V on the LiFePO4 charger.

A123 M1A LiFePO4's are 2.3Ah and 3.6Vmax - 2Vmin. Is that a major detriment(sp) or handicap to the cans, being 0.07V higher then 3.6V? Even the EM3ev LiFePO4 charger, puts them up to 3.65V? It might be better, for longer lasting A123's to go the #2 route, 3.5V cans instead.

I have about 80 used batteries of the A123 Systems ANR26650-M1A's. I still need to test them because I took them apart awhile ago.
I'm planning the configuration now. But is there any danger for charging these LiFePO4 battery cans on a Li-Ion charger?

In the future, I highly doubt I will do this LiFePO4 chemistry again, they are just to expensive brand new. However I did read an ES thread, from 2014 about the newer/better M1B's being $5 for grade B's. For the future, I am thinking about the 18650 25R's or similar, and will be building a 20-25Ah pack. That is why I ask this question.

These A123's I currently have is just a starter "cruiser" backup pack really, after my exploding episode with the HK hardcase LiPo's.

I will go either, 57.6V 11.5Ah pack which will give me a respectable 51 km/h speed, or a 43.2V 13.8Ah pack for a slower speed of 41 km/h speed. With my 18fet Lyen, I can program the LVC easily and its all on the MXUS 3000W V2 4T in a 26" downhill rim. When I get the 18650 25R's is when I shift to a more aggressive riding habit, like building a 17" or 19" moto rim for offroading and hill climbing. I'd say in the next 4 to 6 months.

The only other question that pops into my head, will ~42V and 58.4V work on a 18fet Lyen which in the specifications says rated at 72V nominal and 65A?

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[dogman dan]

I don't see any danger. But can't you adjust your charger to stop at the exact voltage you want?

Most 5 amps or higher chargers have the adjustment pot.

 

[markz]

Most 5 amps or higher chargers have the adjustment pot.

The LiFePO4 or the Li-Ion or both?

I see on the EM3ev site, their LiFePO4 charger are set, no adjustability. I remember emailing them about that exact question, about having a pot for adjustablility and he said no. I cant remember if it was Li-Ion, or LiFePO4 or both chargers. EM3ev's Li-Ion chargers have the 3 settings, but I believe theres not a pot for fine adjustability.

----------------------------------------------

Greentime on Aliexpress has lots of choices for chargers. This statement on all their products seems promising.

Output Voltage & Current: (custom design of output parameter is available)

I will email them and see if I can get a Li-Ion charger with an adjustable pot for the output voltage.
Heres the message I sent Leo from Greentime

I am interested in your Li-Ion chargers, around the 14S and 4A to 5A range. Is the final output voltage adjustable at all?
I would really like to be able to adjust the output voltage from 14S Li-Ion 58.8V down to 10S Li-Ion 42V.
And if its possible I would like it even better for my charger to be an adjustable range, such as 18S Li-Ion 75.6V down to 10S Li-Ion 42V or 12S Li-Ion 54V.

I will see what their response is. There must be a maximum range in which they can do this. It would be ideal for my needs to be able to go from 18S Li-Ion 75.6V all the way down to 10S Li-Ion 42V. Even if it was 18S down to 12S I'd be really happy.

BMS Battery Charger Thread
Another
Its still BMS Battery :?

In the Mean Well's, am I specifically looking for a CV/CC unit?
All I can find are some models that are CC like the NES model, some also have PFC. Only CV's are the LED models. Was thinking about putting two MW's in series. A 48V model and a 15 or 24V model.

Might be getting somewhere. PSU + MW.
Perhaps this Dell PSU and a MW.

Does CC/CV mean one or the other or both.

 

[dogman dan]

The chargers I have that do have adjustable pots for voltage cannot adjust all the way from 36v to 48v. But, for example, a 48v 14s can adjust down to 12s.

I'm not sure what the exact range is, but it's not quite 12v. It would be nice to be able to adjust all the way from say, 24v output to 64v.

I can't say if a particular charger has an adjustment pot. But my EM3ev charger has three pots. one for each charge level on the three way switch. It's not called a lifepo4 charger, it's li ion. However since all lithium batteries are li ion, I'm not sure what any difference might be, other than end voltage. It's possible the li ion chargers shut off, and will not restart to balance the pack later.

Paul would be able to explain his chargers better of course. I just know I could adjust the one I got a few years back. I have mine set for 4.0v, and 4.15v, never quite taking my RC packs to 4.2v.