Best battery and price for new project

[johnnyz]

Ok...I need another battery pack for my new bike

I have 28 headway cells in my trike but they just wont fit under the hood of this beastie. I would like to build at least a 72 v 20 ah pack and possibly 92 v 20 ah where the dreaded SLA's reside.

Im looking at either Panasonic NCR18650 cells rated at 3500 mah and welding up a pack but prices are either unrealistic or the vendors from China cant seemingly understand the simplest of english. Example...FASTTECH company sells these cells at $8.61 for 2 and if you order more than 5 the price drops to $7.88...I emailed the tech rep and they are quoting me $710.00....I said I wanted 120 cells....so unless the shipping is over $240.00?...anyway if anyone knows of authentic cells at a reasonable price let me know....

Any suggestions would be appreciated

John

 

[eee291]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=81041


Maybe Samd can help.

There was a guy named tumich who up til recently sold 3,5Ah Sanyo cells for a little under a dollar per Ah, I bought 100 a while back and they were awesome! But now he doesn't seem to have any at the moment.

So the only other place I know of is http://www.nkon.nl

Buy 360 times for €3.65

 

[johnnyz]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=81041


Maybe Samd can help.

There was a guy named tumich who up til recently sold 3,5Ah Sanyo cells for a little under a dollar per Ah, I bought 100 a while back and they were awesome! But now he doesn't seem to have any at the moment.

So the only other place I know of is http://www.nkon.nl

Buy 360 times for €3.65

Thanks

Im gonna contact him..looks like some good pricing...hope he understands english?

 

[eee291]

of course

you know you could post some pics about the interrior and maybe the dimmensions also :wink:

 

[parabellum]

There was a guy named tumich

johnnyz, tumich is easy to deal with, you can PM him to see when next batch of cells comes in. Look at post history to see what kind of deals he offers usually.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

 

[999zip999]

JohnnyZ where do you live.

 

[johnnyz]

JohnnyZ where do you live.

Im in London Ontario Canada. Crazy damn place..yesterday it was in the 90's and today its like 50... lol


Johnny

 

[johnnyz]

Well...


I am in the process of transplanting my 18 fet Crystalyte 60 amp Controller into my new bike...as you can see I have taken it out..


All the phase wires are same gauge and color as is the wires for the hall sensors. I will have to graft the old to the new, the only problem is this...






My Crystalyte has all the bells and whistles, regen, cruise etc but I dont have a schematic for the wiring.. Does anyone have a schematic for this controller?

I am going to leave the SLA's for now, Im really really curious as to how much stronger it will pull..

The Motorino PR says that the controller is a sinewave and the motor is dead quiet, but they advertise that the controller and motor has the CCT system, that is the controller attaempts best performance with best efficiency and all the while attempting ( I presume to maintain 500 watts)...Apllying this "CCT drive system to the motor i think is hogwash...Im betting that my Crystalyte will run the motor just fine..

Tomorrow I get all my supplies and will supplant the old into the new and see what happens.

If anyone knows the schematic of the 18 Fet Crsytalyte I would really appreciate it and any other info, please feel free...

Thanks

Johnny

 

[johnnyz]

Heres a pic of my 18 Fet Crystalyte Controller...

Phase,hall sensor, power,throttle I already know, need the rest of them figured out...I think the 5 pin connector is a Cycle Analyst connection but not sure..







Thanks

John

 

[public_enemy]

What is the power of the motor ?

 

[johnnyz]

What is the power of the motor ?

It says 500 w on the cover, but thats meaningless...Even Motorino says that this system produces up to 2300 watts (not Continuous)...but by the size of the motor and width..AND the most important thing...driving it for 40 mins as fast as it would go..up hills etc on a 90 degree day and the thing would barely be warm...where as my H4080 would be too hot to the touch...mind you on my trike im pulling 65 amps and 5300 watts or about double the power, but I think the motor has great potential, thats why I am trying to find out info on it..(I really dont want to get into it..)

Im going to replace the batteries with my headways first and see the difference...then the controller, when I can find a schematic on it..


John

 

[parabellum]

Have no crystalyte controller, but CA is 6 pin, hall sensors are 5 pin, 2 pin could be e-brake, 1 pin (red wire) is usually power on, 3 throttle. There could be 1 more 3 pin for 3 speed switch and some randomly coloured 1 pins interconnectable between each other 2 for regen and 2 for auto cruise.
Post pictures of unknown connectors with protective tubing peeled back a bit to see the color.

 

[public_enemy]

I am curious to see what will happen i will follow your post

 

[johnnyz]

Ok...the transplant has begun..
View attachment 5


OMG..these things are heavy..I had to use my car jack to lower the battery case and slide them out this slot in the case

View attachment 4



Even the metal case is heavy..lol...anyway Im going to do a this battery swap complete with my watt meter in line with the + and -...

SLA meet Lithium...


Dont know how many of these headways I can fit in here...as I have insulate the metal case and the plastic holders take up some room...should be able to get 24 anyway (72 volt)...

It will be interesting to see the difference between Wh per Km between my trike at 120lbs vs the bike at about 40 lbs heavier and way worse Aerodynamics



Stay tuned....

 

[johnnyz]

Ok the transplant is done, and what a difference. The bike accelerates much better, has a slightly higher top speed and is much more nimble.

Heres the batteries and the tray after I used my car jack to get them out. They weighed almost 100 pounds!




Getting the headway's in the case (24 of them) proved that I could easily stuff another 4 or 6 in there!

Plumbing in my watt meter I can now really see whats happening with the cells as we go. The Speedo and voltage gauge on the bike proved inaccurate as it read too high around.6 to .8 volts too high.

I dont have a BMS for the headway cells as I found they were all shit. I use instead Battery medics set to discharge when voltage reaches 3.5
and this has proven to work really well. The range is not quite as good as the SLA's as the original batteries are 20 ah rated at 1c by the way, and I can confirm that was accurate.

Range with the headways was about 40 kms and the SLA's 50 kms. That is going 30-40 kph.
Average consumption with the SLA's was about 24 Wh per km
Speed increased from 55 kph to almost 60.
The lifepo4 was about 23 Wh/km
Of course with the original batteries voltage drop off was constant and predicable, with a corresponding drop off of power and speed. With the headways, the drop in voltage was much less, untill the end which inevitably meant that one or two cells was dropping quicker than the rest. At that point I knew the ride was over. So 78.5 v x 15 ah=1177 wh's. However, best range was 980 Wh and 13 amps used. This is acceptable considering the cells are 3 years old and many cycles.
Next on the agenda is swapping out the controller for my Crystalyte 18 fet pulling 70 amps. Then I will build a new 92 volt pack.
Fist things first..

 

[LockH]

Hey johnnyz. Toronto following yer project. I'm currently riding recumbent trike. (Lost any sense of balance!) Just curious? Why the two wheels versus advantages of three...
Cheers
L

 

[skeetab5780]

Nice upgrades! I cannot believe that thing actually has pedals on it. Have you tried to pedal it, it must be slow.

What is the name and model of that bike. I have started to see similar bikes like this on EBAY and I've been curious as to how they are.

 

[johnnyz]

Nice upgrades! I cannot believe that thing actually has pedals on it. Have you tried to pedal it, it must be slow.

What is the name and model of that bike. I have started to see similar bikes like this on EBAY and I've been curious as to how they are.

Thanks, and Im not done yet.

Cant pedal it they are just on there to satisfy ebike requirements in the province of Ontario Canada (which are a joke).

Its a Motorino XMR. However 2 other manufactures are also making their versions of this bike, Emmo and Daymak. I have tested each and the Daymak was awful. Poor fit and finish, small hub motor, limited speed even when taking off the governor, price $2300
The Emmo actually had better fit and finish than the Motorino in my opinion but again used small motor that got hot quick, controller allows torque but nothing else, slow speed in comparison, and the Motorino has more options, plus a 5 year warranty.

These bikes are based on a motorcycle frame and handle very well..big fat motorcycle tires real shocks make for a platform that will easily accommodate more power, as opposed to a regular mountain bike being modified with hub motor going 50 mph...not safe..

Stay tuned, as I build a 92 volt Batt pack, 18 Fet controller pulling 70 amps...hoping to get to 80 kph.

John

 

[johnnyz]

Hey johnnyz. Toronto following yer project. I'm currently riding recumbent trike. (Lost any sense of balance!) Just curious? Why the two wheels versus advantages of three...
Cheers
L

Hey fellow Canadians!..lol

Well, I almost got nailed on the Arctrike and the roads just dont accomodate this beasitie..and besides, I get bored ...I might put her up for sale if you know anyone who wants her..

It's funny the difference between the two...in consumption they are almost the same (about 23 wh/Km on the bike and 21 wh/km on the trike at the same speeds) yet the wind im pushing on the bike is much more than I ever have felt on the trike...BUT, with the smaller rear wheel on the bike I didnt think it would be so fast (almost 60 kph) where as on my trike with the same voltage with H4080 hub motor and 24 inch wheel it would do about 55 kph...the wind on the Motorino motor must be for high speed..so when I up it to 92 volts and 65-70 amps..well...we will see how fast she will go...

Johnny

 

[LockH]

Coolio johnnyz. I'm not interested in higher speeds any more (Urban Guy), where gets harder - uses more energy - to "cut" through air. With recumbent, also have been saving coroplast election signs to assemble a cover - think, like a velomobile - re rains and snow and sun shade. Seal the body shell up well enough... thinking air conditioned. Hehe