Best set up for a MAC

[mxer]

Ok, I have decided on a MAC 500 speed motor.....

I'm used to using SLA's due to there simplicity and availibilty to the UK....

I have now found this wonderful site called HobbyKing And have seen many different types of Lipo's at very good prices I can play with...

Trouble is, like i said i'm used to the simple set ups with SLA's running 24v,36v,48, and simple chargers that go with them....

Ok, Lipo's run in strange voltages 3s = 11.1v, 4s = 14.8v, 5s = 18.5v, 6s = 22.2v and so on, strangly all inbetween my simple SLA's..... The MAC kit's can run 36vto48v or even 72v.....So my question is what would be the best way to run the top end of 48 with lipo's or is it best to go alittle higher, I'm only planing on going 5/5.8 AH so only running in series..

Then there is the charging side? I have heard of bulk charging and read a few articals, and would be my choice of the way to charge (charging individually, not really) only to balance every now and again (sounds like you need two chargers then?) Bulk charging at what voltage ? As an example if i had 2 x 6s22.2v in series = 44.4 would a standard 48v charger be ok ? or would it stetch the pack to 48v and cause damage/overcharge?...

After readying this myself I guess I'm after your MAC setups for guidence, what lipo battery setups you have including chargers and voltages and what controllers you purchessed of Cell man etc, There are sooooooo many way's to do things, there must be a standard set up/config that just works really well.....

Many Many Thanks in advance, You never no I may even be doing my own build one day Iv'e been living on this site, It's amazing and so complicated which is what i like :lol:

 

[neptronix]

My MAC build thread is quite cluttered, but i hope it is of use to you.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25889

I even go into bulk charging lipo, balancing etc mid-way through the thread.
There are a ton of threads on lipo around here, i suggest you search the forums for more info.

BTW, Which 500W MAC are you referring to? the 8T? ( "25mph on 36v" 320rpm wind )
How fast do you want to go anyway?

 

[mxer]

8) Thanks for the link, My appoligies for the another thread Many of them are set up way over my head :? I just want a "Standard" set up with basic lipo and charger/controller etc....
I'm not in it for speed 25/30mph would be my max (but would like the fast wound motor, for future.. is that the 8t ???), Funny really as I done 45mph in my car today to gauge some of what you guy's do That's way too fast for a couple of elastic bands :lol: And I do MX...Anyway's I would feel i would have to ware a full face helmet, and on a puch bike

I'm off to have a read of your thread, Thanks again

btw I will post my bike pictures tomorrow, show you what it's going on

 

[neptronix]

8t is a mid-high speed wind, it's the best middle ground for torque and top speed for sure.

On 10S lipo ( "36v" but really 38.5v nominal ), i've hit 29mph pedaling at the top of the charge, and 24mph usually at the bottom of the charge.

12S lipo ("44v" but really 46.2v nominal ) will easily do 28-32mph.
So the 8T sound pretty good for ya. I do run 15S on mine for a speed of 35-39mph, but that's so that i can keep up with traffic as we don't have bike lanes here really :x

All quoted figures are for a 26" wheel of course.

 

[mxer]

Awsome thankyou, makes alittle sence now, when you added the Nominal, Think i'll go for the 6s 22.2v packs, =44.2... That i.charger you got is that just a plug and play thing or do you need to set up the voltage ?...Great link btw

 

[neptronix]

If you're going to go 12S, you have 2 good options.

1) hyperion 14S-capable charger to charge the 12S pack...
2) iCharger 206b+ to charge the 6S banks separately, or as one big parallel 6S group.

#2 makes a lot of sense if you add a bulk charger like a meanwell setup into the mix later.

And for the iCharger, it has a nice interface for setting all the parameters you'll need to. It's very easy to work with, and prevents you from doing a lot of dumb stuff as well, which is great for a newbie. And it probably has more features than you'll ever use..

The hyperion units are good too.

 

[dogman dan]

Was about to say that. go for a 12s pack. Look at Icecube 57's for sale thread for a good way to handle swapping from 12s to run to 6s to charge. That's a great way to go about it if you don't want to get into bulk charging.

Personally, I think a simple 12s setup is a great way to dip your toe into lipo.

 

[neptronix]

I think he actually discontinued his harness service.. he mentioned that on the endless sphere facebook.
I do believe he has some good youtube videos and posts lurking on this forum.

 

[mxer]

Thanks guy's, I like the 12s set up it may well fit in my exsisting nimh pack, but would be permanant and would need to charge both at the same time :? .....

Here's my bike, Think the drop out is 145mm with washers so may shrink down to the 135mm ?..... This has a 24v 180w motor, this was going to be my mixed Nimh and sla to 48v but may just go down the Lipo route now till the motor gives up then get the MAC. .....

btw, controller used to be built into the crank and is dead, So have cheap 48v yk controller mounted under the rack for now

What would you do with it ????....

excuse the mess

 

[dogman dan]

I never saw how he could make a dime on the harness, but he was not trying to keep how it worked a secret.

Even with just a few easily bought paralell y connectors, it's fairly easy to go back and forth between 12s 2p to 6s 4p to charge. It's just simpler to handle 12s than it is to do 15s, and 10 s is just a bit slow for many.

RE the motor. That looks pretty good to me. is it brushed? if so run it on 12s till it dies. It could take years if your ride is not too punishing.

 

[mxer]

Whoop Whoop!! Ordered my cells 2x 6s 22.2v Turnigy's, I will sort a charger in the uk as i fly heli's and know a few people in local stores.....

Next issue the controller i have this 48v controller but i don't think it will work with the lower voltage 44.4v lipo's are giving ? is there a way of turning this off to handle any voltages ? It has 63v caps inside ??...

here's a pic, btw if i can get this working there is nothing holding me back for the MAC in the future not with this brushed controller tho

 

[neptronix]

Actually it looks like that has a 42v LVC, which would be perfect for lipo if you're using enough AH to prevent major sag.

42 / 12 = 3.5v/cell.

At 3.6v/cell, you've got about ~7% energy left and you should stop discharging anyway.
So that would be perfect.

 

[mxer]

You have made my day .........

Pretty graph :? ......... :lol: .

 

[neptronix]

That's a typical turnigy/zippy 20C lipo being discharged at 'bout 1.5C.
You can produce the same graph with an iCharger via the USB port and included software.

 

[mxer]

i charger does look cool but when adding a power supply and postage it just wasn't an option unfortunatly I do have my 48v standard 2a charger can i use this with a couple of battery medics for balancing ? ...

Chargers look a good price till you gotta add a power supply, And at work i just want a plug and play

 

[mxer]

8) Iv'e found a guy that sells the icharger in the UK for much cheapness He does the 106b and the 206b the 106b is £30/$50 cheaper do I really need a 206 ? and also what can i get to run this AC wise ??? those power packs are well over me for current and amps and look a nightmare to lug around :? Just stabbing at the dark for alturnatives here ie, could i use a x box ac pack or laptop pack or cheaper alternative ???etc, What do these ichargers need feeding V/Watts wise to know what to look for ???....

Thanks alot guy's, Really getting there now, Ordered me cabling 12awg and hxt's and got some drawings made up ready, Looking forward too it ..... Icecube57 vid's, how cool is he .....

 

[neptronix]

By power pack, you mean a 12V power supply, not a battery, right?

Look around for a used power supply. 12v ( 13.8v ) / 20A will be fine for the iCharger. I found a used power supply on craigslist for $30 and used that.

A smaller meanwell with a good current limit would make for a great portable charger. Or a BMSbattery unit ( king power, i think it's called? ) tuned to the correct voltage would work too.

 

[mxer]

Yup power supply....The idea of carrying two bits of kit around (icharger/power brick) is really bugging me i will do my best to pick my choice carfully, and don't want to be carrying the same weight as my SLA's :lol: in the end ....

Like the idea of a 1 piece charger, I could use my battery medic to balance every now and again when at home, If i was to get a "king power ??" charger what voltage do i need to ask for 22.2v or 25v and at how many amps ???....

Iv'e just realised once you start spending i'm lost without you guy's to complete, so big thanks neptronix, dogman,........ :wink:

 

[neptronix]

Why don't you just carry more battery around with you so that you don't have to charge constantly?
Run a few 5AH packs in parallel and get yourself a nice 10-20AH battery that'll do ya for 20-40 miles..

Like so:

And a 12v power supply plus an iCharger is gonna weigh about 3-5 pounds tops, they just take up a good amount of space, that is all. Given that lipo is about a fifth or a fourth lighter than SLA, that won't put you in SLA territory... lol

It sounds like you're a bit clueless about lipo, no offense! There is a lot to learn and i was puzzled at first. best start readin' some posts stickied in the top of the various sections of this board. And if you have any other questions, we'll help out.

 

[mxer]

Yeah your right !!!........................... I'll order another two 6s

Clueless :lol: :lol: :lol: You only just worked that out :lol: :lol:

Nice one cheers neptronix....

 

[mxer]

This picture, are you charging them as a 10 cell set up as you have seriesed the two 5 cells in the pic ???

 

[neptronix]

Yup.. permanent series. Had to cut the wiring down some, as it was becoming a spaghetti monster with 4 series harnesses linked up to 1 big parallel harness..

You can do this with 12S. You'll just need a 12S capable charger from there on out. I only got away with this because i have a 10S iCharger.

Your situation will be a bit different.

One thing i should mention is that i did 2 full charge / discharge tests per pack to ensure that there were no funky cells in any of those before doing the permanent series thing.

 

[neptronix]

you could however, do groups of paralleled 5AH together. That is, after fully testing them to make sure you aren't permanently attatching a dud to a stud