Best way to get 35kph from 200-250w? (Australian laws)

[Sunder]

in conclusion: you still need to know where the OP is as to what ultimately applies to the OP, which is

relevant regarding how he can use it, and the penalties.

Which is the exact point I was trying to make.

I think somewhere along the line you have missed the point. If I have a legal eBike in one state, it's legal in EVERY state, because the technical specifications are defined at the Federal level. So we don't need to know what state he's in for any technical specifications of the bike. However, in QLD for example, he can ride on footpaths, in NSW, he can't.

Anyway, the OP never came back. It doesn't matter that much. I suspect even the vast majority of people who think they have compliant bikes are not compliant - just like a cop told me once that the law is so strict around car compliance standards, that even a car straight from the car yard could be defected, but cops don't see any need to do that. Ride safe, respect the law even if you don't slavishly follow it, and you'll be right. I was at a car meet once. One of the members just got his car "engineered" (certified by an engineer) and was arrogant to the police. You know what the cops got him on? His shifter didn't have the "H" pattern on it (worn off). Meanwhile, all these illegal mods were overlooked because the drivers were cooperative, and the mods were minor.

 

[jayzias]

in conclusion: you still need to know where the OP is as to what ultimately applies to the OP, which is

relevant regarding how he can use it, and the penalties.

Which is the exact point I was trying to make.

I think somewhere along the line you have missed the point. If I have a legal eBike in one state, it's legal in EVERY state, because the technical specifications are defined at the Federal level. So we don't need to know what state he's in for any technical specifications of the bike. However, in QLD for example, he can ride on footpaths, in NSW, he can't.

Anyway, the OP never came back. It doesn't matter that much. I suspect even the vast majority of people who think they have compliant bikes are not compliant - just like a cop told me once that the law is so strict around car compliance standards, that even a car straight from the car yard could be defected, but cops don't see any need to do that. Ride safe, respect the law even if you don't slavishly follow it, and you'll be right. I was at a car meet once. One of the members just got his car "engineered" (certified by an engineer) and was arrogant to the police. You know what the cops got him on? His shifter didn't have the "H" pattern on it (worn off). Meanwhile, all these illegal mods were overlooked because the drivers were cooperative, and the mods were minor.

Hello all! Thanks so much for your collective input and combined knowledge and responses.

I must apologise for being MIA on the replies, it has honestly been a hectic few weeks. I assume most will have forgotten about this thread now and I probably won't get a reply due to my poor forum etiquette, which I understand.

FYI, I am in Darwin, NT. I tried to find what info I could on local laws but there don't seem to be any, so I assume it is as above.

Somebody who mentioned the bike shop guy who said "they come stamped as 200w and we don't ask questions"... Well, that's basically why I started the conversation. I rode the ezee forza in Melbourne (went up to 38kph) and the guy at the shop said the same thing, so I figured I should be able to engineer something similar. From the conversation, sounds like they're doing something dodgy.

Thinking I might still do some sort of 200-250w mod for those windy days... And I do also get the point about legislation being ridiculous... I certainly would be riding responsibly but just wanted to know what the laws actually said and what could be achieved within them!

Thanks heaps all!

 

[d8veh]

We have the same in Europe. All motors are "maximum nominal continuous rated power" of 250w, but every year, the torque increases. We now have some very powerful "250w" motors. That power requirement in EN15194 is very much misintepreted. It basically allows any motor that is stamped 250w by the manufacturer. There's no limit to the actual maximum power output. In the UK, before EN15194, the limit was 200w, but, again, it was a nominal rating, not a maximum output power.

 

[Cephalotus]

It seems like the Q75/85 kits from bmsbattery might be able to do the job, so wondering if anyone has experience or better suggestions?

Since three years I run a Cute 85 in my 28" / 700C bicycle. I use a KU63 controller limited to 11A at 36V (typical 14A).

With the 201rpm versionI can reach 30kph, with the 328rpm version 40kph is quite doable on flats. Of course some human power should be added.

For your 200W law (mechanical?) a 8A limitation (just make the shunt thinner) could be ok: 36V * 8A * 75% = 216W

With the Q85 and a KU63/65 at 8A 36V 35kpm seems very doable to me if you can ride 25kph on your own.

The motor gearings should also very long at just 8A and heat shouldn't be a big concern, too. A simple steel fork and drop outs will not make much trouble, too. Life is much easier with low powered motors and 200W continous power is still significant. It's the difference between me and a tour de France biyclist.

 

[Cephalotus]

We have the same in Europe. All motors are "maximum nominal continuous rated power" of 250w, but every year, the torque increases. We now have some very powerful "250w" motors. That power requirement in EN15194 is very much misintepreted. It basically allows any motor that is stamped 250w by the manufacturer. There's...

Yes. My BionX motors have a EN15194 and a 250W sticker and use a 48V 30A = 1,4kW controller. Still perfectly legal within EU law. You just need a manufacturer that has a valid sticker on its motor.

 

[athletic91]

If u see the bike in my sig below. Its a 36v 201 rpm cute100 with a stock 36v15amp controller, but i run it at 48v and get 35km/h @200-250w with "fake pedalling" (just to activate the PAS.

However as the battery gets discharges, it takes about 330w to maintain 33km/h under the same conditions

 

[jayzias]

If u see the bike in my sig below. Its a 36v 201 rpm cute100 with a stock 36v15amp controller, but i run it at 48v and get 35km/h @200-250w with "fake pedalling" (just to activate the PAS.

However as the battery gets discharges, it takes about 330w to maintain 33km/h under the same conditions

Thanks for the info! Why did you go 201 rpm instead of 328? Wouldn't 328 give you faster speeds?

 

[jayzias]

I haven't posted in a while, anyway, 35 kph is possible, but there's a catch, and you may need to pedal ( or need a tailwind... ).

First, if you want speed, 200w is the limit. BTW, 200w MAX or CONTINUOUS. Doesn't matter. Most people don't understand the difference anyway and are only thinking in terms of what motors are usually classified as, and don't understand how to offset back-emf. BTW, in WA, it's 250w MAX and 200w MAX for both types - they have the same limit, so in effect, they are measured the same way... That's not my opinion, it came from the Department of Transport ( yeah, that technically means 750w peak Pedelecs are illegal in WA, or 750w peak PAPCs are legal... Still not sorted out. ) .

OK, here's how you do it.

1. Get a 500w 48v hub motor.
2. Run it at 24v with a 24v controller. That's about 125w now.
3. Include a managed boost circuit to push about 36v at 200W out of a boost circuit. Wire in series between the battery and the motor controller.

You now have a bicycle that will put out 200w at about 32 kph. A little less at 25kph.

Why is this important? Well, wind resistance will limit your maximum speed to 25 kph in most instances, but tailwinds do occur, and you won't even feel a 3 to 6 kph wind. But that's all speed that will give you extra forward velocity. A 6kph tailwind will give you about 4kph extra speed, so you're close to 30kph. Get 15 to 20 kph, and you'll sit on up to 35 kph under power.

But, if you don't have a tailwind, then just pedal... The extra power from your legs will get you up to about 35 kph, without much effort. You can push on to 40 or higher if you're fit - the boost circuit will offset drag quite a bit, but not much beyond 40. There's more you can do, but it is a compromise unless you want to get really complicated.

Hope this helps - FWIW, I presently have what is the fastest legal electric bicycle in Australia... Does about 30 average on flats with gentle effort included. It also has a small petrol generator, so has a pretty long range - with better than 200 mpg economy.

You can read about it here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68164&hilit=australian

It's not much of a bike, so it won't take you long to beat my record....

Good luck, let me know how you go -

David

Thanks for that David, had a look at the page - looks interesting! How'd that end up working out for ya?

The setup you've got looks probably a little more than I could accomplish with my limited skillset!

Have you run into trouble with the 500w "stamp" on your bike, even if it only puts out 200w? Seems like the go (even with the dudes who sell the bikes at the ebike shops) is that as long as it has a "nominal" rated 200w engine then the actual output doesn't seem to phase too many people.

Thanks for your reply!