Bonanza "Bulldozer" Dual PhaseRunner AWD

[Alan B]

Thought I'd try to make a bracket for the Dual Cycle Analyst displays that places them centered and low on the handlebar. This is the first draft that might be good enough to test. Those are cable tie slots inside the partial rings, and the rings are matched to the handlebar diameter though not to the taper at that location. Not an optimal design but might be good enough. I can always make improvements and print another one if this isn't adequate. Once I figure out the angle I want I might even print a foot on it to keep it from drooping. This bracket takes advantage of the 1/4-20 mounting in the back of the CA.

This will take about an hour to print in 0.30 layer draft mode, which is good enough to use.

Made a radius/diameter error so the slots were too narrow. Fixed that, and used the prototype part to check the setback from the handlebar, reduced that 3mm. Print again.

 

[Alan B]

Success on the second try.

 

[Alan B]

Plenty of heatsink area and some physical protection for the dual PhaseRunners

 

[Alan B]

Another upgrade to install. Shimano makes very interesting bicycle parts. I got this awhile back to replace the old Hayes rotor that goes with the now removed front suspension fork. The "Ice Tech" uses different materials in the hub vs the brake ring. The hub has more mass than usual and is shaped to fit the usual mounts. I was concerned that it might not fit the hubmotor but it fits fine. There is no doubt on this rotor about installing it backwards, the machining would not fit the hub if reversed. The screws came with special locking features to keep them tight, but those screws are too long to fit the gearmotor safely. The 203 adapter came with pre-drilled capscrews and safety wire. They are very serious about keeping the brake attachments tight.

The BMC gearmotor requires the use of short M5x8mm screws so I have to be careful there. Probably should use removable loctite as well, I don't seem to find the shorter machine screws with the pre-applied compound, at least at a good price. The Shimano Deore XT hydraulic front brake system is already installed, and it is really nice, though it doesn't have a built in switch. I don't have switches on all my brakes, but it is nice to have them when possible.

 

[Alan B]

How quickly a short job turns into several, and several hours.

Rotor installed, 203 adapter upgraded and wired, kickstand installed, removed a few pedals from some of the bikes to compact the storage, and helped the son with a few tasks on his machines. It looks a lot better with the new dual display mount even though there are still some wire piles coiled up. Considering it has dual displays, dual controllers, a huge high power battery, high voltage rear light and a sturdy rack, it is pretty clean. Not polished, but simple and solid. I pedaled it around the court today, no battery onboard, and it feels good. SRAM trigger shifting is crisp and quick, Deore XT brakes are strong and the weight is well balanced with the BMC in front and the 9C in the rear. There was a request for an overall photo, here is one. This was my first ebike, and still a very good one. This is the second rear motor (both 9C's, but this one is a higher voltage winding which is particularly well suited to the PhaseRunner). The front fork is changed, brakes and shifters are updated, the seatpost is thudbustered. Most of the rest is stock. The front BMC was selected for a similar Kv to the 6x10 9C. Both PhaseRunners are in torque control mode with balances the speeds automatically. Adding the front motor turned it from a pretty boring ride to a quick accelerating and powerful steep climber. Compared to the mid drive, the mid is like a sporty manual transmission and this Bonanza is like a powerful V8 automatic. Simpler to drive and will climb whatever you point it at, but heavier and not slow. They both have their place. Nice to have variety in the stable.

When I first used this for my commute it was barely able to make the near 15% climb, I had to pedal to keep it from melting. It just didn't have enough torque at a reasonable power level. I could have put a bigger controller on and operated the motor in an even less efficient regime but generated more torque and played the game of can I get to the top quickly enough to avoid melting it, or I could add a second motor which added the torque needed but generated less heat in the motor. So with dual motors it glides up 15% at any throttle setting without getting hot.

 

[Alan B]

I dug out the manual for this bike that I purchased in June 2000. I see they state the color is "Electric Blue". It is a striking color, appropriate for the future of this machine.

Used to be a web page with all the specs for this bike. Unfortunately REI took it down and the wayback machine didn't have it last time I looked. And if I captured it I haven't come across it. I was looking for the chainring tooth counts, I'm making a gearing chart for this and the various configurations of the RidgeRunner to investigate the potential of a Rohloff on that bike.

I would like to make the variable regen work on this bike. But what control to use and where to put it. This bike has trigger shifters both sides, right twist throttle, and bell on the left. Left brake is front hydraulic, and right brake is cable rim type. Seems like during braking the best regen control would be a thumb, perhaps the right since the left hand is controlling the powerful and important front disc brake. But with Magura twist throttle and trigger shifters and brake on the right it is a long way to empty handlebar on that side. Perhaps a special long reach thumb lever of some type could be designed and fabricated.

 

[thundercamel]

I wonder if you could do a twist throttle on the left... No word on when Grin will release a mind control interface for the Phaserunner to clean up handlebar clutter

My two upright bikes have grip shifters, which I've always cursed for making it a long reach to the thumb throttle, and they wouldn't work well with a twist throttle either. Then my recumbent came with trigger shifters, and I realized they intersect with the (left) thumb throttle, which I had to move further left. It has worked out well enough though, since I don't shift chainrings often. I'll probably try a right twist throttle like your setup eventually, and maybe you could do a left thumb throttle set left of your shifter for regen if a left twist throttle isn't a thing.

Open image as a new tab for full resolution:

 

[john61ct]

Personally, I'd only worry about ergonomics / safety issues with the emergency stopping brakes, which IMO should be completely independent of any electronics.

If the regen option can also be on/off automated to trigger off that system at a specific level that does not interfere with the safety aspect, fine and good, but is it really going to add much range for most use cases?

What I **really** need regen for is drag braking my heavy tandem / cargo rig on descents.

There a simple potentiometer will do, and does not IMO need to be physically fancy nor integrated into the other handlebar controls.

But if not difficult, integrated into a twist throttle would I suppose be fine.

 

[Alan B]

That Lynx is really cute, full suspension packed into a tiny package. But those handlebars are so short.

The left front brake is so critical for safety that I'm thinking I don't want regen on that side. And I'm looking for descent control rather than range extension. Riding the brakes on a steep downhill heats them up, but regen keeps the brakes cool and ready for emergencies.

I keep thinking some kind of lever on the brake lever would be good, but haven't come up with a practical design.

 

[thundercamel]

That Lynx is really cute, full suspension packed into a tiny package. But those handlebars are so short.

Thanks, it was pretty affordable used, and I added the front suspension fork for $20 from ebay :lol: Do you mean the handlebars are narrow, like not enough room to add accessories?

I do like the seat on my friend's BikeE better, or wish it had a full mesh seat.

 

[Alan B]

Yes, Narrow is a better description. On the Bikee the narrow bars also make steering more sensitive.

 

[thundercamel]

Ah, yes. Neptronix was saying the same thing for his BikeE and Cannondale. The Lynx however acts more like a tiller when it's tilted back, so the narrow bar is just fine, and more comfortable than I thought it would be. (I was originally hoping for under seat steering). It does only require the smallest of steering input at speed; there's more focus on leaning than anything.

Tilted to riding position:

Friend's BikeE that I got to try. Looks pretty similar to yours:

I don't want to clog up your thread with too many pictures though.

 

[Alan B]

I might move the excellent recumbent picture postings to my BikeE thread.

That is a very interesting steering setup and it would reduce the sensitivity.

The dual display mount tends to drift in angle, I'm preparing to fix the angle. Here's a prototype for fitting that's printing now. A third cable tie will fix it in angle. The draft of the spacer alone was close, adjusted it a couple of mm and printed this prototype. It appears to fit, I'll probably mount it up on the bike for a test run.

It is mounted up and ready for a test. Static tests passed.

 

[Alan B]

Here's a snapshot of the Dual CA Bracket with angle support on the Bonanza. The cable ties are not trimmed yet, probably will put a few on the cabling as well. This updated version should keep the CA faced at a reasonable angle without much trouble. If I leave off the center cable tie the CAs can be adjusted for angle upwards, and when they vibrate they should stop in this position. But if the angle is about right they might as well stay there. I'll have to test it further and see how it works out.

I may make some variations of this bracket to hold single CA's on my other bikes. For a single CA it could be made more compact.

 

[Limbs]

Whatever happened to the Throttle Manager project? (it looks like it was abandoned when the Phaserunners were used?)

I ask because I'm working on some changes to the 2WD SB Cruiser trike, (delta, drive by both rear wheels with separate hubmotors), and part of the changes include:
....

....

--a sensor (undefined as yet) on the steering will apportion power to the left and right motors in turns to help push it into the turn harder.

I realise I might well be a little late with this, but assuming you are running twin CA3s, you could use a dual channel variable potentiometer to control the ThrO Limits via the Analogue Aux Inputs; when you turn, it would reduce the throttle output to one controller and increase it to the other.

 

[amberwolf]

I realise I might well be a little late with this, but assuming you are running twin CA3s, you could use a dual channel variable potentiometer to control the ThrO Limits via the Analogue Aux Inputs; when you turn, it would reduce the throttle output to one controller and increase it to the other.

No, I'm using only one CA3.

However, since that post, the trike's operational mode has changed (partly because of my increasing hand problems), and recently I started a new thread for using Arduino Nanos to implement various functions external to the CA, some to alter the way the CA reacts to things by changing what inputs it gets, some to bypass it in certain cases, etc etc.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=110497

The dual pot is still a good idea, if i can make a mechanical device to rotate it that also can't exceed the pot's physical limits. But I am just as likely to go with a cable-operated throttle body type of system, perhaps two (one pulled by each direction of steering), and fix the cable ends to the steerer or tiller so it pulls them as I turn. If I could make one cable-pull system to turn the pot, then that would work, too.

 

[Limbs]

I wouldn't think you'd run out of travel on the pot, I have bought some so that I can control the balance of torque between front & rear wheel motors and thy have 270 degrees of rotation, just a case of making your levers a suitable length. I would think that a solid rod might be best to actuate it in your case, either that or maybe a "solid core" cable.

You can also get linear pots, they might be easier to connect up.