If you can post good pictures of the board, both sides, I can probably figure out if it's possible. In most cases, you just need to add a potentiometer across a resistor.
Build your own charger
- Thread starter ElectricGod
- Start date
Alan B
100 GW
That is why the LED supplies are more valuable and better choices as lithium battery chargers. They have true adjustable current and voltage limiting, as well as being sealed and potted against water intrusion. At least most of them are that way.
ElectricGod
10 MW
Alan B said:
Sealed and potted = NOT serviceable.
No thanks!
ElectricGod
10 MW
fechter said:
Good idea! I just moved into a new house and am barely into getting my EV lab set up again. I'll take some pics soon.
BTW...I have several of your current limiter boards. My issue with them is they adjust the output voltage. I want to maintain CV. I'm stacking together 8 PSU's in series. Having predictable output voltages can be important when I set voltages at certain PSU's so the stack, up to that point, delivers 12S or 16S or whatever voltage.
From low voltage to high voltage is PSU1 to PSU8.
At PSU2, I should read 49.2 volts (12S). At PSU3 I should read 65.6 volts (16S). And so on. I cant have the output voltages changing.
danielrlee
10 kW
You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope mate. I've never heard of one needing to be serviced before, most likely due to the potting used.ElectricGod said:
Alan B
100 GW
ElectricGod said:
No need to service them, they work fine. They don't need hacking.
ElectricGod
10 MW
Too bad I already have 7 PSU's...might have been worthwhile to go a different route, but I'm already pretty deep into these SE-600 PSU's. LED PSU's aren't really an option.
I looked on Jameco.com where I bought them. Currently 7 of the SE-600-24 PSU's would set me back $505. I'm not going to toss that money aside to go a different route when I can leverage them for a bigger build and only need to buy one more PSU.
There may be better options, but I have what I have.
Potted...ugg...I've had potted electronics fail before. It's a giant PITA to clean off all that crap so I could replace a bad part. Right now in my possession is a DC-DC converter worth $300 new. It's all potted inside and of course it's dead. I'm pretty darn sure I can fix it, but never mind that! I'm really allergic to hours of removing crap from the converter board so I can repair it. What's worse is I have to dig it out of it's shell/potting just to get at the board...which of course is buried in more potting...never mind...I think a broken femur might be more fun!
Anyone know of an easy way to get rid of the potting? A way to at least make it soft and crumbly?
I looked on Jameco.com where I bought them. Currently 7 of the SE-600-24 PSU's would set me back $505. I'm not going to toss that money aside to go a different route when I can leverage them for a bigger build and only need to buy one more PSU.
There may be better options, but I have what I have.
Potted...ugg...I've had potted electronics fail before. It's a giant PITA to clean off all that crap so I could replace a bad part. Right now in my possession is a DC-DC converter worth $300 new. It's all potted inside and of course it's dead. I'm pretty darn sure I can fix it, but never mind that! I'm really allergic to hours of removing crap from the converter board so I can repair it. What's worse is I have to dig it out of it's shell/potting just to get at the board...which of course is buried in more potting...never mind...I think a broken femur might be more fun!
Anyone know of an easy way to get rid of the potting? A way to at least make it soft and crumbly?
Depends on the type.
I don't know which stuff is applicable out of this, but there is a fair bit of info on the web, some of it in this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22removing+potting+compound%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I've found brake fluid and/or ATF removes some epoxy pottings. Silicone stuff..I've just had to pick off, though there may be solvents for that, too.
I don't know which stuff is applicable out of this, but there is a fair bit of info on the web, some of it in this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22removing+potting+compound%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I've found brake fluid and/or ATF removes some epoxy pottings. Silicone stuff..I've just had to pick off, though there may be solvents for that, too.
whereswally606
100 kW
So back in the day I would sell hp esp113 chargers and used to regularly charge using a stack of them pumping out a similar voltage as each other in series and then I would use a meanwell clone with the fechter v3 limiter board to do the current limiting. You only need the range of voltage output of the one meanwell to be sufficient to cover the range from empty and full of your battery and the limiter board works fine. all but one supply needs floating outputs, so that would be on the esp113s
Theses days I actually use bst900 dcdc and a esp120 beast to charge my emax scooter (which I rarely ride now)
And actually what I use most is the b&q macallister 36v tool packs which have their own chargers that came with them. I use two packs in series for 72v and my bike is fast and dependable. Unfortunately b&q are actually discontinuing them so I will have to fix poorly packs myself but that's no biggy. Excuse to use the jp spotwelder. They charge plenty fast and because it is a thing made and sold for that application work has issues with me plugging it in at work to charge. I think I wouldn't get away with a lot of series laptop chargers here.
anyway this thread is pretty good but I don't agree with the use of resistors over the pwm mods.
Theses days I actually use bst900 dcdc and a esp120 beast to charge my emax scooter (which I rarely ride now)
And actually what I use most is the b&q macallister 36v tool packs which have their own chargers that came with them. I use two packs in series for 72v and my bike is fast and dependable. Unfortunately b&q are actually discontinuing them so I will have to fix poorly packs myself but that's no biggy. Excuse to use the jp spotwelder. They charge plenty fast and because it is a thing made and sold for that application work has issues with me plugging it in at work to charge. I think I wouldn't get away with a lot of series laptop chargers here.
anyway this thread is pretty good but I don't agree with the use of resistors over the pwm mods.
Alan B
100 GW
I'd usually rather buy equipment that is reliable and not need repair than something unreliable and easy to repair. The potting improves the reliability and value of the equipment.
I carried an unpotted charger on my bike for awhile and sure enough, it failed. The potted gear stands up to vibration and moisture better.
The Satiator charger, PhaseRunner controller and the Meanwell HLG LED supplies are potted and extremely reliable. The HLG's are voltage and current limit adjustable and make excellent chargers with no hacking required. The Satiator and HLG are also UL listed which is required in most workplaces. Cheap supplies may not be UL listed, and when hacked the UL listing is voided, so these should not be used in the workplace (or public places). At home you can do what you want. Take care, the voltages inside these supplies are lethal.
I carried an unpotted charger on my bike for awhile and sure enough, it failed. The potted gear stands up to vibration and moisture better.
The Satiator charger, PhaseRunner controller and the Meanwell HLG LED supplies are potted and extremely reliable. The HLG's are voltage and current limit adjustable and make excellent chargers with no hacking required. The Satiator and HLG are also UL listed which is required in most workplaces. Cheap supplies may not be UL listed, and when hacked the UL listing is voided, so these should not be used in the workplace (or public places). At home you can do what you want. Take care, the voltages inside these supplies are lethal.
parabellum
1 MW
And that is how your setup could look likeElectricGod said:
see .pdf
and about 100,000hrs if Tcase is under 70C
2xHLG-240H-48A. Current and Voltage adjustable 44.8 ~ 51.2V @5-10Ah or 99.6~102.4 @ 2.5-5Ah.
View attachment 1
Alan B
100 GW
Nice Setup.
markz
100 TW
So them LED chargers by Meanwell are all potted because they are outdoors running LED's ?
As long as can still get 15A out of it and not cost too much.
I'm already in Mouser Canada, will take a peek.
Yup not much action above 10A there.
Maybe I will go look at Doctorbass' threads on diy potting his.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52560&p=783928&hilit=potting#p783928
Alan B
100 GW
There are various models. I'm not familiar with every one. But the HLG's at least have been quite good for Lithium charging. I heard at one point they were being used commercially for the purpose. There are some variants even within the series for different means of controlling the voltage/current settings. The ones I use have tubes through the potting so the adjustments can be reached. My 1kw charger was used daily for charging my Borg at work. These supplies cost a few bucks more than the cheaper supplies, but they have real adjustable current limiting and don't require hacking to use. They came with 5 year warranty and are UL listed, as I recall.
parabellum
1 MW
Thanks. It is just such a nice upgrade, after annoying fan action of previous set-up. Can charge any time, anywhere now.Alan B said:
You can look at HLG-600H. They are not super cheap but I have a pile of broken standard CCCV chargers that did not got near to a 100,000 hour mark all together and did cost more then MW.markz said:
Please share your potting results if you get there.
They can be, yes.markz said:
The one built into the SB Cruiser is on the bottom of the trike, and has been completely submerged in water at least once, and gotten very wet a number of times with the few but heavy rains we get. (and the ones I have were all used when I got them, mounted on some form of motorcycle by their original owner, so probably exposed to weather for unknown years).
You can parallel (and series) as many of the HLG series as you need to for the capability you're after. Cost, well, they're not all that cheap, but they sure are more durable than any other charger I've had, including the Satiator (because they don't ahve connectors on the body to break).
Not serviceable...but unless electrically misconnected or whatever, unlikley to need it.
I use the HLG-600H-54A (you have to get the A version if you want adjustability), and have a 24A charger taht's two of those paralleled, for my 14s NMC packs, and I use just one built into the SB Cruiser for normal charging (can just plug in anywhere with the cord I carry in the trike).
(I sometimes wish I had a 12-16V version for my lighting packs).
markz
100 TW
Well I am into the SE-1000-48 now, just got it in, its a beast!
The fan is loud a.f. so having lots of them sheeesh, what what I can't hear you ElectricGod :lol:
Nice setup btw ElectricGod and parabellum
Mine will used in the garage and I will build a bigger battery to go 50km (30mi), plus I need to throw in some warming wires. I haven't done any fixing of my HRP's, just waiting for the SE while charging with 50W rc shitbags.
Ah fuckit I was going to post a new post but I will do it here.
Copy and paste.
Just got this in today.
Specs state 48V 0->20.8A 43-56V
I measured mine to be 40.4V - 59.3V
Good for 10S up to 14S, but I may go 15S puts me at 3.95V/cell I like to be at 4.10 to 4.15V per cell.
I usually build my battery to suit the chargers amperage.
My cells are rated for 1.5 to 2.0C but I like to go 1C.
However I did build Fechters current limiter board, just have to solder it together and get the shunts on Wed or Thu.
Also obviously some thick heat shrink and triple it up! It will be nice to have adjustable current to be able to go slow or fast charging.
The AC gnd is connected to the case, the DC output gnd is not connected to the case. There are some black insulated grommets around those massive Vdc output tabs. The back grate is pretty much wide open, yeah I can deal with that easy enough. This could be turned into a portable unit, and added Silastic, Dow Corning 748.
This is definitely not a portable unit, unless I get cables onto the pcb with some very good strain relief.
I am excited! It was taking my battery 4 or 5 hours to charge at 5A on dinky rc charger, yesterday I put it on 2A and it took 8 hours. The 20A game is new to me, I'm used to 15A charging times.
Here are some pics.
View attachment 1
The fan is loud a.f. so having lots of them sheeesh, what what I can't hear you ElectricGod :lol:
Nice setup btw ElectricGod and parabellum
Mine will used in the garage and I will build a bigger battery to go 50km (30mi), plus I need to throw in some warming wires. I haven't done any fixing of my HRP's, just waiting for the SE while charging with 50W rc shitbags.
Ah fuckit I was going to post a new post but I will do it here.
Copy and paste.
Just got this in today.
Specs state 48V 0->20.8A 43-56V
I measured mine to be 40.4V - 59.3V
Good for 10S up to 14S, but I may go 15S puts me at 3.95V/cell I like to be at 4.10 to 4.15V per cell.
I usually build my battery to suit the chargers amperage.
My cells are rated for 1.5 to 2.0C but I like to go 1C.
However I did build Fechters current limiter board, just have to solder it together and get the shunts on Wed or Thu.
Also obviously some thick heat shrink and triple it up! It will be nice to have adjustable current to be able to go slow or fast charging.
The AC gnd is connected to the case, the DC output gnd is not connected to the case. There are some black insulated grommets around those massive Vdc output tabs. The back grate is pretty much wide open, yeah I can deal with that easy enough. This could be turned into a portable unit, and added Silastic, Dow Corning 748.
This is definitely not a portable unit, unless I get cables onto the pcb with some very good strain relief.
I am excited! It was taking my battery 4 or 5 hours to charge at 5A on dinky rc charger, yesterday I put it on 2A and it took 8 hours. The 20A game is new to me, I'm used to 15A charging times.
Here are some pics.
View attachment 1
markz
100 TW
My main concern with the SE is not the voltage range or the output amps.
Concern is if it shuts off, if its left on like the HRP mw's do and it doesnt trickle too much higher then what its set at.
I do believe these SE's are exactly like the S model
Both S and SE have fans. SE has UL rating, over temp protection, remote on/off and sense and DCok.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63230#p946005
Concern is if it shuts off, if its left on like the HRP mw's do and it doesnt trickle too much higher then what its set at.
I do believe these SE's are exactly like the S model
Both S and SE have fans. SE has UL rating, over temp protection, remote on/off and sense and DCok.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63230#p946005
DrkAngel
1 GW
SE series has no known Amp regulation mod ... and will fault if unregulated as charger.
Voltage is as set and will not trickle higher.
Check PS voltage when not connected.
It will sag lower during charge but will not "trickle" higher.
You can regulate Amps by wire gauge-length ...
Target is 20A?
Put a amp meter in line
Start with light (18-16ga?) leads to deeply discharged battery
Up to 14-12ga if charges ≤20A
Remember though, most Lithium recommends charging ≤0.5C = 5A charge to 10Ah battery.
Voltage is as set and will not trickle higher.
Check PS voltage when not connected.
It will sag lower during charge but will not "trickle" higher.
You can regulate Amps by wire gauge-length ...
Target is 20A?
Put a amp meter in line
Start with light (18-16ga?) leads to deeply discharged battery
Up to 14-12ga if charges ≤20A
Remember though, most Lithium recommends charging ≤0.5C = 5A charge to 10Ah battery.
markz
100 TW
Ah man, I struck out on the SE.
Yes the goal is ~20A
No amp regulation?
Voltage is as set and will not trickle higher?
I always check the voltage and I always check the current when hooking up anything to my battery.
The voltage right now with battery not hooked up is set as low as it can go 40.5V with the voltage adjusted pot.
Will fault if unregulated as a charger?
Hmmm so its not a classic CC CV
(where the voltage slowly rises in 0.01V increments at full amps (from lets say 30V) then as the voltage nears the set voltage (lets say 40V) the current slows down while at set voltage. My Mean Well HRP did that, I watched it on my multi meters, and I could hear the fans change speed as the current slowed down nearing the set voltage.)
Voltage is as set and will not trickle higher.
OK so the SE is not a CC / CV that is too bad. So then the SE model is not the same as the S model. I assumed wrong yet again.
I thought the S model was CC CV.
I do not need current adjust, if that is what you mean by "regulated". I build my battery to suit whatever the MW spits out in max amps.
Thank you DrkAngel for your post, I was about to build my battery and hook it up to the SE with 20.8A specification on the MW.
I will have to keep a very close eye on a small test run of the SE. 2 DMM's and the heat temp laser.
Yes the goal is ~20A
No amp regulation?
Voltage is as set and will not trickle higher?
I always check the voltage and I always check the current when hooking up anything to my battery.
The voltage right now with battery not hooked up is set as low as it can go 40.5V with the voltage adjusted pot.
Will fault if unregulated as a charger?
Hmmm so its not a classic CC CV
(where the voltage slowly rises in 0.01V increments at full amps (from lets say 30V) then as the voltage nears the set voltage (lets say 40V) the current slows down while at set voltage. My Mean Well HRP did that, I watched it on my multi meters, and I could hear the fans change speed as the current slowed down nearing the set voltage.)
Voltage is as set and will not trickle higher.
OK so the SE is not a CC / CV that is too bad. So then the SE model is not the same as the S model. I assumed wrong yet again.
I thought the S model was CC CV.
I do not need current adjust, if that is what you mean by "regulated". I build my battery to suit whatever the MW spits out in max amps.
Thank you DrkAngel for your post, I was about to build my battery and hook it up to the SE with 20.8A specification on the MW.
I will have to keep a very close eye on a small test run of the SE. 2 DMM's and the heat temp laser.
DrkAngel said:
DrkAngel
1 GW
SE in lower wattage models will have 130% brief overamperage allotment before faulting.
Specs for SE-1000 indicate 105-125%. Not sure if this refers to amp limitation or fault condition.
Even with the S-series, Amp regulation is modifiable only in the S-150 Series and S-350 Series - normally they only regulate at 130% of rated Amps.
Light weight charging leads seem reasonably effective if amp regulation fails ...
Specs for SE-1000 indicate 105-125%. Not sure if this refers to amp limitation or fault condition.
Even with the S-series, Amp regulation is modifiable only in the S-150 Series and S-350 Series - normally they only regulate at 130% of rated Amps.
Light weight charging leads seem reasonably effective if amp regulation fails ...
markz
100 TW
Thanks again for your valuable input DrkAngel.
I got the SE running, the outputs read 40.4V
the battery is at 36.74V and is fully charged at 42V
I did fully charge it last night and I did ride it to storage levels.
The dmm reads to the hundreth's
It should be increasing slowly in 0.01V increments just like my HRP does that I've been using 2 yrs.
It doesnt seem to be increasing. My other dmm is pooched, so I will get a current reading.
I will keep a close eye on it.
21A/12S -= 1.75A which is just around 1C
Temps are all normal.
edit
Yeah the SE is in protection mode when battery hooked up. Bummer
My new dmm only does A(ac) up to 10A, and it read read O.L. when I do try to read it, its good it protects the fuse like that.
I am going to return it and buy two ones that can do A(dc) measurements.
Turned everything off.
Starting anew.
Plug in charger with no connections. Green light comes on, fan runs.
Hook up dmm to charger, read 40.4V.
Hook up battery, charger reads 36.74V and green light is still on, fan is running. Its gotta be reading the battery voltage.
Disconnect dmm green light on, fan running
Disconnect battery green light fades off, fan running.
Yeah there is no current at all obviously.
When I start anew, and connect battery the protection circuit kicks in, I hear and see nothing.
When its the battery is disconnected the green light turns off.
That sucks!
Tried it again with current ac, reads 60mA (ac) and unplug battery green light turns off
So it does go over 100% as seen by the O.L. reading in A(ac) measuring for a bit of time.
Oh well.
The fix would be a small 5V MW that is known to work on charging batteries, placed in series.
That will be the regulation
Back to charging at 5A on my rc chargers.
Waste of money the SE was. I have Dell psu's up the ying yang for $5.
The SE I got was used and cheap, no big deal.
-------------------------------------------
Brain fart I think.
Reduce the current somehow when battery is connected to reduce the surge.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuckme
Would a stove top coil work?
I believe Value Village has them and its not far from me, I have enough juice to get there and back.
I do have an old iron, could even buy a toaster.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=75212&p=1382512&hilit=toaster#p1382512
OK I am off to buy some crap at Value Village. Stove top coils, a toaster or two depending on prices, maybe even a cheap curling iron, throw them in my box of wires where my iron is for melting pvc pipe.
Man I've been nervous about this MW SE, its intimidating to me, big lugs in the back and all.
I got the SE running, the outputs read 40.4V
the battery is at 36.74V and is fully charged at 42V
I did fully charge it last night and I did ride it to storage levels.
The dmm reads to the hundreth's
It should be increasing slowly in 0.01V increments just like my HRP does that I've been using 2 yrs.
It doesnt seem to be increasing. My other dmm is pooched, so I will get a current reading.
I will keep a close eye on it.
21A/12S -= 1.75A which is just around 1C
Temps are all normal.
DrkAngel said:
edit
Yeah the SE is in protection mode when battery hooked up. Bummer
My new dmm only does A(ac) up to 10A, and it read read O.L. when I do try to read it, its good it protects the fuse like that.
I am going to return it and buy two ones that can do A(dc) measurements.
Turned everything off.
Starting anew.
Plug in charger with no connections. Green light comes on, fan runs.
Hook up dmm to charger, read 40.4V.
Hook up battery, charger reads 36.74V and green light is still on, fan is running. Its gotta be reading the battery voltage.
Disconnect dmm green light on, fan running
Disconnect battery green light fades off, fan running.
Yeah there is no current at all obviously.
When I start anew, and connect battery the protection circuit kicks in, I hear and see nothing.
When its the battery is disconnected the green light turns off.
That sucks!
Tried it again with current ac, reads 60mA (ac) and unplug battery green light turns off
So it does go over 100% as seen by the O.L. reading in A(ac) measuring for a bit of time.
Oh well.
The fix would be a small 5V MW that is known to work on charging batteries, placed in series.
That will be the regulation
That is my next mission.
Back to charging at 5A on my rc chargers.
Waste of money the SE was. I have Dell psu's up the ying yang for $5.
The SE I got was used and cheap, no big deal.
-------------------------------------------
Brain fart I think.
Reduce the current somehow when battery is connected to reduce the surge.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuckme
Would a stove top coil work?
I believe Value Village has them and its not far from me, I have enough juice to get there and back.
I do have an old iron, could even buy a toaster.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=75212&p=1382512&hilit=toaster#p1382512
OK I am off to buy some crap at Value Village. Stove top coils, a toaster or two depending on prices, maybe even a cheap curling iron, throw them in my box of wires where my iron is for melting pvc pipe.
Man I've been nervous about this MW SE, its intimidating to me, big lugs in the back and all.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Make sure MeanWell is set to 110V not 220V!
markz
100 TW
DrkAngel said:
Yup I triple checked that, the SE-1000-48 needs to be jumpered for 110/120V.
OK well I went to vv and got me a few gems, a 2 sided grilled cheese maker and 2 blow dryers with dials they were less then the cheapest 6 pack of beer next door. I made sure they were the oldest ones on the shelf. The grilled cheese maker is straight ac to the elements, 125V 900W so 7.2A in AC so derated for DC when thats hooked up, so derated is half maybe?
I thought maybe the units would have electronics inside.
Should I put the ac ground, attached to the frame on the dc ground?
I think so but I dont know for sure. The grill is 3 wired cord, no electronics inside, ac grounded to the metal grill. Stove like coil element underneath the grill.
Do I put the resistive load on the ground side or the positive side of the charging?
markz
100 TW
OK I put the grill on the positive side.
Battery reads 31.97V
Hooked up the grill to battery and it reads 31.97V.
Charger by itself read 40.4V
Everything hooked up 40.4V
Nothing
Disconnect, green light stays on.
Opened up the other side
Found this, I bet its a temprature regulator, so that green ground wire needs to be hooked up. I will try dc ground.
View attachment 1
Green wire to ground of charger did nothing.
Sensor is Bimetallic Thermostat High Temperature, One Shot Type Thermostat
http://www.wako-clinac.co.jp/product_en/ch-152-35_en/
Listed on the grill front Cs-7 back cs 7ta 175 2181
Bypass that sensor, keep my heat light on it.
--------------------
Nothing
Rewired the connections in series, no sensor.
I read 40 ohms per side, 80 ohms in series, 20 ohms in parallel.
Ah ok I think I know something. The minimum voltage for the 48V SE is 40.5V with the battery at 32V its too much of a drop in voltage.
Green light stay on now.
I will charge the battery with my 50W rc charger at 5A and get the pack up to 38V and see.
Interesting.
Battery reads 31.97V
Hooked up the grill to battery and it reads 31.97V.
Charger by itself read 40.4V
Everything hooked up 40.4V
Nothing
Disconnect, green light stays on.
Opened up the other side
Found this, I bet its a temprature regulator, so that green ground wire needs to be hooked up. I will try dc ground.
View attachment 1
Green wire to ground of charger did nothing.
Sensor is Bimetallic Thermostat High Temperature, One Shot Type Thermostat
http://www.wako-clinac.co.jp/product_en/ch-152-35_en/
Listed on the grill front Cs-7 back cs 7ta 175 2181
Bypass that sensor, keep my heat light on it.
--------------------
Nothing
Rewired the connections in series, no sensor.
I read 40 ohms per side, 80 ohms in series, 20 ohms in parallel.
Ah ok I think I know something. The minimum voltage for the 48V SE is 40.5V with the battery at 32V its too much of a drop in voltage.
Green light stay on now.
I will charge the battery with my 50W rc charger at 5A and get the pack up to 38V and see.
Interesting.
