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Canadian Government is Anti Zenn

Lessss

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Messages
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Location
Saint John N.B. Canada, Sol 3
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/26102007/3/canada-electric-car-maker-charges-ottawa-blocking-its-sale-canada.html

OTTAWA (CBC) - The founder of a Canadian-made, 100 per cent electric car says the federal government is blocking him from selling his cars in Canada.
 
"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups."

anonymous


:)
 
TylerDurden said:
"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups."

Quite right. Makes people's pervasive preference for political party affiliation positively puzzling -- puhleaze! -- and explains the reason behind the world's sorry state of affairs. All very evolutionarily tribal in its character. I sure wish groups could grow up and evolve already! The relative lack of selective pressure to do so perhaps explaining the individual/group character disparity?
 
They are not stupid in the least, they know precisely the master they serve that puts the money in their pocket.
The politicos need to protect Canada's oil-based economy.
To write them off as stupid just serves to give them an advantage & a free pass from blame.

Twenty-five years ago a B.C. engineer wanted to develop tidal power off the coast of Vancouver Island.
The utilities response, tap their government lackeys, obstruct him to the point he packed up & moved everything to Malaysia.
Lotsa examples like this.
If Zenn forwards some 'tribute' that might buy them some access to the marketplace.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
They are not stupid in the least, they know precisely the master they serve that puts the money in their pocket.
The politicos need to protect Canada's oil-based economy.
To write them off as stupid just serves to give them an advantage & a free pass from blame.

By protecting the oil industry, the politicos are acting in a manner that is not in the interest of themselves as politicos, or their constituents. They are making themselves the slaves of inimical foreign regimes, while exploiting the nature and resources of their region in an unsustainable manner that assures the expensive clean-up of large scale environmental disasters later. Unless they plan to retire on Mars or Venus, their pursuit of short, narrowly focused, bribery-stimulated election cycle goals comes at the much greater expense of their own (and their family's) happiness and freedom later. If that's not stupid, I don't know what is.
 
They're a ministry of transportation, of course they are going to be slow in approving the vehicle. Not because they are protecting "big oil" but because this creature is so different from what they are used to approving. If they clear the vehicle for use locally, the first few (inevitable) fatalities from underpowered slow-moving vehicles on the roads will bring headlines like "MOT Asleep at the Wheel". The ZENN folks needed to pre-clear this hurdle during the prototype phase, a long time before committing to a full scale production line. Government bureaucracies are not going to be swayed by arguments like "it's been approved in XYZ country, why won't you approve it here?" Government bureaucracies move at a glacial pace when given something outside of everyday experience; I'm surprised the company CEO didn't see this coming. Of course, by turning to the press the CEO is simply hoping to apply the only pressure he can, public conscience can turn in to parliamentary inquiry (even if it is just a few MP's writing memoranda), which can often expedite the decision making process within government circles.
 
'cept the ministry keeps changing it's opinion. They aren't saying it doesn't meet XY or Z outright.

Approval should be a straight forward process, submit the specs and see if the specs meet requirments, Submit a finished vehicle and see if it meets requirements. He hasn't been able to get them to get off the can on the Specs in the time it's taken him to go into full production from this country into another country.
 
Harper is a Bilderberger after all- the Rothchild/dark nobility drumbeat he marches to is to supress all technology that would empower the individual.
 
xyster said:
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
They are not stupid in the least, they know precisely the master they serve that puts the money in their pocket.
The politicos need to protect Canada's oil-based economy.
To write them off as stupid just serves to give them an advantage & a free pass from blame.

By protecting the oil industry, the politicos are acting in a manner that is not in the interest of themselves as politicos, or their constituents. They are making themselves the slaves of inimical foreign regimes, while exploiting the nature and resources of their region in an unsustainable manner that assures the expensive clean-up of large scale environmental disasters later. Unless they plan to retire on Mars or Venus, their pursuit of short, narrowly focused, bribery-stimulated election cycle goals comes at the much greater expense of their own (and their family's) happiness and freedom later. If that's not stupid, I don't know what is.

All true, cept for the last sentence.

Also from the CBC this past summer in an interview with a former oil minister that is now Alberta's ambassador to the U.S. he flat out came clean:
'we have to get rid of the stuff (oil) & get our money out of it now before something else comes along to replace it like solar power or cold fusion'.

That's why they are working hard to forstall the inevitable.
The oil industry will jump ship off the oil tanker once they've got all our money out of it they can, with which they buy up alternate energy & other technologies.

You & I will have trouble breathing but they will have the means to afford the technology to scrub the air, water & shield from radiation.
Not to worry though, for a price they'll sell it to you too.
Say whatever you like but underestimating them is to your own detriment.
 
ott said:
Harper is a Bilderberger after all- the Rothchild/dark nobility drumbeat he marches to is to supress all technology that would empower the individual.

I've heard that b4 & surprised that it's not more widely puclicized, but you don't even have to go to that length to understand that empowering the individual is bad for their bottom line.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
ott said:
Harper is a Bilderberger after all- the Rothchild/dark nobility drumbeat he marches to is to supress all technology that would empower the individual.

I've heard that b4 & surprised that it's not more widely puclicized, but you don't even have to go to that length to understand that empowering the individual is bad for their bottom line.

Bilderberger = Build A Burger?
Rothchild = That Candy Company?

Hmmm...I smell a tasty conspiracy! :)
 
I'd like to know the real story, as I'm sure if the vehicle meets the requirments, the company can start stamping VIN numbers. Has the Zenn passed all the safety standards to be on the road?

Transport Canada does have some stupid rules and regulations though. For example, you cannot buy a Mitsubishi EVO8 here because it doesn't meet Canadian bumper standards, but that car is ok everywhere else in the world.
 
They sell most of their cars to US Cali I guess and yes they are only approved in two proviences locally B.C and Que.
I'd buy one $11 to $13 k 4 dr seats 4 like a one of the small new cars

efreak
 
Here are the Ministries contact info

New Brunswick Minister of Transport email address.
denis.landry2@gnb.ca

Nova Scotia Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal
TPWpaff@gov.ns.ca

Prince Edward Island Transportation and Public Works
rwmackinley@gov.pe.ca

Newfoundland Minister of Transportation and Works
twminister@gov.nl.ca

Quebec
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtq.gouv.qc.ca%2Fportal%2Fpage%2Fportal%2Fministere%2Fministere&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Ontario
Bradley, Hon. Jim J Phone: 416-327-9200
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/feedback/minister.htm
minister@mto.gov.on.ca

Province of Manitoba Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation
mininfratran@leg.gov.mb.ca


Alberta Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation
infras-trans.minister@gov.ab.ca

Saskatchewan Highways and Infrastructure
minister.hi@gov.sk.ca
 
You know, sometimes I can be such a a well here you judge




Les LeBlanc wrote:
> Good day,
>
> One thanks you for your efforts in investigating the passing of appropriate legislation to finally allow or disallow this 100 year old technology on the road in Nova Scotia.
>
> One understands how some Provinces take longer to catch up to modern times than others.
>
> One especially appreciates the difficulties and concerns of passing a car body already in use in most of the rest of the world, as a regular or diesel car, in this "new" form of electric propulsion.
>
> One sincerely hopes that the red tape of 41 regulations, many of which are specific only to high speed vehicles and are deemed unnecessary by Transport Canada for this class of vehicle, does not unnecessarily prolong this process.
>
> One does appreciate that political will to implement change takes time. Of course once the legislation is passed, manufacturers can at that point know what is required of them, until then Kyoto targets and manufacturers willing to solve the problem and provide a product meeting 75% of the populations transportation needs will have to wait.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> FYI (http://www.littletechshoppe.com/ns1625/automobiles.html)
> Oldest Car in Atlantic Canada
> September 2000
> 1902 Columbia Electric
> 98-year-old car to be featured at Sherbrooke show
auto1902.jpg


> This 1902 Columbia Electric automobile, owned by
> Willard Saulnier of Meteghan, Digby County, Nova Scotia,
> is the oldest operating car in Atlantic Canada.
> http://www.littletechshoppe.com/ns1625/auto1902.jpg
> There are old cars, there are antique cars and there is the car Willard Saulnier will take to the annual Sherbrooke Show and Shine in September.
>
> The Meteghan man's 1902 Columbia Electric Car, the oldest operating car in Atlantic Canada, will be featured among 200 vehicles from around the Maritimes Sept. 9th and 10th. "It's one of the first cars made after the horse-drawn carriage," Mr. Saulnier said. "It's the only one I know of in Canada."
>
> The mostly wooden vehicle runs on six six-volt batteries, which will last for about 14 hours after a complete charging. But it will never set any speed records. "It will go about 20 miles (about 30 kilometres) per hour," said Mr. Saulnier, who bought the two-seater treasure six months ago from a Yarmouth man.
>
> "It would probably take me about a month to drive" to Show and Shine, which will be held on the ball field at historic Sherbrooke Village from 11am to 5pm Saturday September 9th and from 10am to 4pm Sunday September 10th.
>
> Drivers and owners will be available both days to talk about their vehicles.
>
> The cars will parade through the streets of Sherbrooke at 5:00pm Saturday as they begin a drive to Sonora. They'll return to Sherbrooke later in the evening.
>
> Mr. Saulnier's car, with a rudimentary 18-horsepower motor, has been a hit at a dozen car shows this year. This winter, he hopes to fully restore the vehicle, which was salvaged from an old barn in Ontario several years ago.
>
> [Halifax Chronicle-Herald, 30 August 2000]
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ZENNâ„¢ Specifications :
>
> Body Type: 3 Door Hatchback, Fully Enclosed, Automotive Aluminum Alloy Space Frame, ABS Body Panels
> Propulsion: 100% Electric, Front Wheel Drive
> Charging: Standard 120 volt outlet plug-in - 80% recharge in 4 hours, complete charge in approximately 8 hours
> Wheel Base: 81.8 in.
> Curb Weight: Approximately 1,200 lbs.
> GVWR: 1,705 lbs.
> Track: Front and Rear - 49.8 in.
> Storage: 13 cu. ft.
> Available Features:
> Heater, Wipers, Power Windows, Power Locks, Remote Keyless Entry, Panoramic Sunroof and More!
> Range: Up to 35 miles
> Speed: 25 mph, limited in accordance with FMVSS 500 regulations
> Steering: Automotive Rack and Pinion with Permanently Sealed Tie-Rod Ends
> Suspension: Independent front wheel suspension with two coil spring/shock units
>
> Rear trailing arm suspension with two coil spring/shock units
> Brakes: Dual Hydraulic System, 4 Wheel Disk, With Electromagnetic Regeneration
> Batteries: Six 12-volt Heavy-Duty, Sealed, Valve Regulated Lead-Acid Non-Spill, Zero Maintenance
> Safety: Meets or Exceeds FMVSS 500 Standards
>
>
>
>
>
> One does again thank you for your time.
>
> Sincerely
> Mr.LeBlanc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Balsom wrote:
>> Dear Mr. Leblanc,
>>
>> Thank you for your correspondence regarding the potential use of low-speed vehicles in Nova Scotia. I have been asked to respond to you on behalf of Minister Scott.
>>
>> The issue of emerging vehicles, such as low-speed vehicles (and the ZENN in particular), is an ongoing area of interest for the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, and we are currently investigating the potential usage of such vehicles in Nova Scotia.
>>
>> Transport Canada has recently given the ZENN motor vehicle it's National Safety Mark for low speed Vehicles, indicating that it has met the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for low-speed vehicles (CMVSS 500). In order for a manufacturer to meet this standard, a low-speed vehicle must meet three criteria: it must have standard equipment such as a windshield, brake lights, headlights; it must have a Vehicle Identification Number; and it must have a seat-belt assembly (non-anchored). By contrast, a typical passenger vehicle must meet 41 criteria set out by the CMVSS.
>>
>> The potential for these types of low-speed vehicles is significant, and is being explored. However, before they can be allowed on Nova Scotia's roads, the department must be satisfied that they are safe for the driver as well as other road users. In addition, we are investigating the licensing and registration requirements, and the regulatory processes that must be addressed before allowing these vehicles to operate in Nova Scotia.
>>
>> Again, thank you for your interest on this subject. The issue of emerging vehicles is an important one for Nova Scotia, and we are in the process of conducting research to ensure that if these vehicles are permitted in the province, their introduction will be done in a safe, responsible manner.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Michael Balsom
>> Vehicle Standards Engineer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Balsom
>> Vehicle Standards Engineer
>> N.S. Transportation and Public Works
>> T: (902) 424-0070
>> F: (902) 454-0512
>> E: balsommg@gov.ns.ca
>>
 
MY SCIENTIST! Almost every other province I sent an email to gave me a red tape bureaucratic reply. It AMAZES me to get this kind of response from N.B.!

Dear Mr. Leblanc :

Thank you for your e-mail regarding legalization of the Zenn car on NB roads. Information is currently being gathered on this topic so decisions can be made about the Zenn and other low speed vehicles. Your input is welcome. You can call directly at the number below to inquire further and contribute information on this matter.

Michael Hetherington

Motor Vehicle Division, Department of Public Safety

Province of New Brunswick

506-XXX-XXXX

Yours sincerely,


Hon. John W. Foran

Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General
 
I live outside of Toronto, the first little town that you come to after leaving the suburban sprawl. We have all kinds of low speed vehicles around here. There are farmers driving tractors along the roads all summer. We seem to cope with it and no one gets killed. Go to Amish country near Kitchener and you can see them peacefully riding along in their horse-drawn carriages with no problems. I think the problem is that the government is looking at this as something new, when it is really something very old, that has already been approved
 
Looks like the Weasels at transport Canada are at it again.

After Zenn got the certification they were denying them they turned around and have clarified their definitions to specifically kneecap LSV cars off city roads.
 
The Zenn is assembled in Canada! The body is made in France. The electrics are installed in St Jerome Quebec. It is a low speed Vehicle only does 35mph. Sold in the US because the safety requirements for use on Canadian roads is not there. It only meets 4 of the over 40 requirements for safety.

The owner of the business will not respond to your e-mails. You get an automated sales pitch. Like talking to Don Harmon!!!

It qualifies for free duty to the States under NAFTA.
 
US & Canadisn LSV regs are the same. Zenn meets all LSV regs. As an LSV however it doesn't meet regular car regs. Zenn has had a nightmare time just getting transport Canada to admit it meets LSV regs, imagine the nightmare red tape getting it approved under the full regs.

The issue is defining an LSV to not be allowed on city streets where speeds are often a real world 9 miles per hour in heavy traffic. Keeping it off the highway ok I can understand that. Off city streets, the reasons given for that are pure bullshit. City streets see horse drawn carriage rids, bicycles, street sweepers, City utility vehicles like back hoe's and garbage trucks and even j-walkers. Keeping LSV's out of the mix is pure "ICE manufacturer" kickback candy and has nothing to do with real world saftey concerns.
 
Gee I wonder if Zenn is shutting down it's production like GM is!?! Not! Looks like the government backed the wrong horse again!


"NEW YORK - Know how special the Zenn electric car is? Here in New York, a cabdriver let me cut him off - actually waved me ahead." LOL
 
Canada puts brakes on electric vehicles
by Guillaume Lavallee
Sat Jun 21, 5:10 AM ET

MONTREAL (AFP) - Despite increasing local demand for zero-emissions cars and trucks and robust exports of electric vehicles, Canada will not allow them on its roads, lament manufacturers.

"It's a daily embarrassment," said Ian Clifford, president of Zenn Motor Company, which builds "zero emissions no noise" vehicles in Canada for export primarily to the United States.

"Even my employees can't drive to work in a Zenn. It's absurd," he said of federal and provincial rules that forbid electric cars from being driven on most Canadian roads.

Clifford's frustration is aggravated by the view that Canadians are increasingly concerned about the environment and are said to be eager to drive electric vehicles in this warming climate.

"We build the car in St. Jerome (Quebec) and ship them all south of the border," where 44 states allow them, and some 45,000 electric cars are in use today, he said.

But Transport Canada says the vehicles made of lightweight metals and plastics are not safe to drive on Canada's open roads, and would not stand up in a collision.

The regulatory agency has so far certified only five models as road-worthy, including the Zenn, and two others that are no longer in production, said Transport Canada spokeswoman Maryse Durette.

But most provinces, which have jurisdiction over the vast majority of roads and highways in the country, have balked at giving electric cars the green light, citing Transport Canada's safety concerns.

"We found Transport Canada to be very hostile towards low speed electric vehicles," echoed Danny Epp of Dynasty Electric Car in an email to AFP.

The Canadian company was recently sold to a Pakistani group which plans to move production to Karachi and continue exporting its vehicles to the United States.

According to reports, others allege political bias, noting Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government's base of support in oil-rich Alberta province.


To date, only westernmost British Columbia allows low speed electric vehicles on its urban roads.

This week, Quebec in eastern Canada announced a three-year pilot project that would permit starting in July the Zenn and an electric truck called Nemo on its roads with posted speed limits of 50 kilometers (31 miles) per hour.

Manufacturers are hoping Quebec's pilot may spur its neighbors to jump on the bandwagon and eventually make it possible to drive an electric car from coast to coast across all 10 of Canada's provinces.

"We hope it will lead to changes," said Jacques Rancourt, head of utility truck maker Nemo, based in Montreal. But the road promises to be uphill all the way, he said.

Despite their widespread use in the United States and strong sales, there are still technical improvements to be made, say experts, such as boosting the life of batteries used in electric vehicles to allow them to go further.

Hydro Quebec subsidiary TM4, which makes electric motors for the Cleanova electric car built by a subsidiary of France's Dassault auto group, is working on a new more powerful lithium-ion battery for use in electric vehicles.

According to Quebec's Transport Minister Julie Boulet, TM4 is also seeking to partner on the project with a large automaker, which she refused to name.

"The battery is really at the heart of the matter to get electric cars rolling," said Hydro Quebec spokesman Flavie Cote. "We all want exceptional performance from a battery that doesn't take long to recharge, at a low cost."
 
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