Close calls......

[atom1025]

Hi there, names Adam and I have been lurking for a few months and commuting by ebike since April of this year. Picked up a synergy aka lashout for $200 off craigslist. Batts were toast so iwent 6s 20 amps of Lipo. Then upgraded motors and esc to 1000w drop in replacement from superkids and configured packs as 12s 10 amps. For an off the shelf its a good buy. Did 20 mph steady for 12 miles in stock configuration. Running 14s 10amps now which tops out at 30mph.

So sometime round may I was rear ended by a woman who made a last second decision to get on the highway on ramp I was crossing. She locked em up and by the time she tagged me I would guess she was around 30 mph. My throttle was pegged so a steady 26mph was my speed. The accident caused my Max speed to record 66mph

So she was in a jag luckily. (Low). When the hit happened it just kicked the bike out from under me causing my right wrist to sprain as I tried to hold onto the grips. I landed flat on my ass. The landing was bad and hurt but I missed the tailbone luckily it was all cheek. I was wearing my back pack which has spare tubes and a water bladder. Her bumper gently pushed me along the pavement for about 5-10'. I have an inch thick wallet that saved my skin. Pants had a hole and the leather wallet had some abrasions. I walked away with a tweaked wrist and a sore ass.

I went to work and finished the day. All day long was a roller coaster of emotions as I realized that could of been my last day had the vehicle any ground clearance.

The rear rim taco'd derailer took a hit as well as the cranks. Luckily it fell on the right as the motor hangs from the left. Got the bike up in no time but took my ass a few weeks to recover. Not to mention I had to get over the fear of getting back on the streets.

Since then I had two close calls with cars making right turns in front of me. Then yesterday at the same highway overpass..... we had the green. There was no cars flowing with me, I had my lights on,.... this d bag getting off the highway runs the red making a right cause he saw no cars to his left. I was in front of his suv as he looked left so he did not see me. He missed by inches! Then on the way home today I saw a fellow bike rider nearly get wiped out from the same scenario. Driver was looking left as he turned right.

I have this creepy feeling that my life will end on two wheels. At first I thought awesome I lived through a terrible accident, odds of another one is huge. Now I'm starting to think whens the next one.... my wife makes me text her as soon as I get to the shop so she knows I made it.

Is bike commuting as dangerous as it seems. I often ask myself if its worth it....

Adam

PS I always wear helmet, gloves, and stylish safety glasses.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Welcome to ES!

Sorry to hear you've had an accident, and even scarier a close call like that where no one even saw you!

Maybe there is a back-road that avoids that intersection you could take?

I was at an intersection that sounds similar to the one you describe, I was using the crosswalk near a major on and off ramp to Hwy 26 (a major freeway near Hilsboro) pushing my bike and a guy SAW me and still tried to turn as I was using the crosswalk and I yelled at him and he said almost surprised "but I have a green light!"

Some intersections are just deadly no matter how many signs that say "yield to pedestrians" or bike paths painted on the road there are. In my case, it's just a very busy intersection with 185th street and the on & off ramps to Hwy 26 there is just a ton of traffic and I imagine few people not in cars even try to cross there, so the drivers aren't even expecting you there.

That is part of the reason I have a marine grade air horn (goto any sporting good store and you can find them) that is good up to 5 miles range to warn other boats from colliding as my attention getter.

Hasn't been a problem yet, but I won't be surprised if someone STILL doesn't respond when I use it while listening to music, texting or talking or what ever.

I haven't had a close call even with logging trucks passing me on mountain roads since I started riding my recumbent, might be the flag? Or just that it looks so different more people notice it, I also have blaze green with reflective stripes safety vest draped onto the back of the seat, and it flaps on the sides in the wind.

I'm also planning on getting a cloth version of a "slow moving vehicle" triangle to have on the back too, and I wear high viz clothing and always have my blinking lights on day or night (front and rear).

Even with all that, it took blasting my air horn once in downtown OR city to get the attention of a lady (she didn't appear to be distracted just didn't see me doh!) that almost pulled directly into me on my left, the look on her face was pure shock and fear when I blasted the horn though!

 

[Hillhater]

Motor bikers have the same problem.
Car /truck /bus/van/ etc drivers are simply programmed by habit and repetition to only look for other vehicles.
They simply do not look for anything else !
You have to get used to that fact and "ride defensively" as the bikers say.
Basically avoid traffic where ever possible. ..you cant win an argument with a 2+ ton vehicle
i would rather get a ticket or suffer abuse from pedestrians for riding on sidewalks /pedestrian ways etc, than risk some of the road junction around here.
And , as a frequent car driver, that same thought of not noticing a cyclist/biker, scares the 51ht out of me, because i know the risk is so high. No one WANTS to be involved in an accident !

 

[atom1025]

I moved recently, used to have to cross two major highways. Now there's one. The only detour is a bike trail that would add 20 mins to the commute. Starting to think about using it though..

Thanks for the welcome.

Adam

 

[GrayKard]

Had a close call last night. Was just getting to the entrance of my apartment complex as someone was about to leave. They saw me coming and waited but as I got in front of them slowing down I see they are looking behind me up the street for traffic. Still looking that way they start accelerating toward me as I'm making the turn. I yelled at the top of my lungs "HEY" and they finally turn their head and hit the brakes hard.

WTF, I never accelerate any vehicle while looking anywhere other then the direction I'm traveling, but I guess safety is less important then saving a few seconds.

I've decided to move closer to work in a couple of months. Not getting run over is among the reasons for doing that. Hope I survive until then...

Gary

 

[Ykick]

This activity can be deadly if you DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO. These threads pop up regularly and that's a good thing because it means you recognize your shortcomings and looking for ways to improve the odds.

At minimum take a good long look at these links and study some of the online materials.

http://bicyclesafe.com/

http://online2.msf-usa.org/msf/Default.aspx

Ideally enroll in a MSF course and learn proper situational awareness for operating small vehicles among the hurtling pieces of machinery we must share the roads with.

eBikes and motorcycle don't pose a threat to most car/truck drivers so we're pretty far down on their concern list. You can minimize the risks but you need to learn how without getting killed or seriously injured in the process.

 

[Sunder]

The best advice I was ever given when I got my motorcycle licence was:

"The schools teach you ride as if you're invisible. They're wrong. Ride as if every driver on the road had an incentive to kill you".

It's true. Some times you think people are intentionally trying to run you off the road for fun (and in one Australian case, a driver was charged for doing so, causing 100k of damage to something like 20 carbon fibre bikes, and excluding one Olympic hopeful from the 2008 Olympics - but ended up only getting a negligent driver charge, because you can't prove intent).

You need to think to put yourself in a position where if someone hits you, it looks like attempted murder, because drivers aren't just oblivious, sometimes they are down right stupid, and rarely, they are actually malicious.

 

[Solcar]

I take the bike trail whenever I can. Adam, when you can be leisurely and got time, taking the bike tail would be a good way to get a break and make the days when your on the more dangerous route more bearable. It's like a recovery time, a time to recollect.

I have a back street that runs parallel to the main thoroughfare, but about 1/4 mile further out each way to access it. I often take it down to the store and take the parking lane on the main road back.

 

[atom1025]

Thanks for the links. Good stuff.

 

[John in CR]

Those close calls don't happen with a fast enough ebike to get out in the traffic. It gives you so much more room to avoid the idiots cagers. There's far less room for mistakes though, so no la-ti-da riding out there mixing it up with them.

 

[sn0wchyld]

I avoid main roads like a lepper avoids cannibals. Ive only done about 150km so far on my ebike and already had a couple of close calls, including a near dooring and a few people who burn past you to cut you off as they pull into a side street. The idea to 'ride as if you cant be seen' or even 'ride as if everyone wants to kill you' is a really good one. Like others have said, riding with flashers on day and night is a good idea too. In Aus motorcycles are required to have lights that switch on whenever the bike is running for this exact reason. With ebikes it should be the same, if not more important to do this since most people expect you to be travelling at <25km/h, not >40, 50 or more.

 

[Evoforce]

+1 on taking the trails and roads less traveled if you can. Just the relaxation and piece of mind factor is worth the extra time and mileage. I agree that having the speed to keep with traffic is an asset but you have to watch out for oncomming traffic turning in front of you, or those pulling on to the street from a side road or parking lot because they do not expect that you will be "closing" with them at speeds faster than most bicycles.

 

[dogman dan]

I could go on and on. John always swears by more speed, and it does work great where he rides. In the US, it's often very different. Legaly different, and the traffic is different. Only you can decide the best thing to do in your town, based on the route, the time of day, the kind of driving happening around you, etc.

Bottom line is you won't survive if you continue to ride the way you do. The short answer is to stop putting yourself in the risky place. Going faster than they expect in the right lane, they think they have time to make that turn. Others simply don't think, they think it's up to you to stop if they right cross you etc. Or they see you, but think like you are not part of the traffic.

Counting on them to keep you safe is gonna get you killed.

So you either have to take the lane and make them slow down, go slow enough so you can stop in time, or best of all find that safer route.

I had a lot of similar problems my first six months of ebike commuting a 30 mile round trip. Now I take a slightly longer, slightly slower, but hugely safer route. When I must, I take the damn lane and give em the don't hug with me look. I make sure they see me, and if they don't I'm diving for the ditch or curb. I am eyballing every single car that ever overtakes me. But mostly I wind around town by the back streets all alone and hugely safer. Sometimes a safe route is not possible, but use as many safe long cuts as you can.

Think about how your first accident happened. You were crossing the on ramp and a lady changed her mind and hit you. All her fault right? WRONG. You assumed they see you. You assumed the car would do what you expected. Start assuming that they don't see you, and will aim to hit you. They won't hit you if you never give them the slightest chance to.

Of course it's impossible to leave the front door without taking some risk, but you can decide to eyball those huggers in the cars a lot more, with the idea that they mean to kill you. Then start looking at how to never give them any chances to change thier mind and tag you.

Lastly, opening that pandoras box again, you do wear some kind of helmet, right?

 

[Ykick]

I could go on and on. John always swears by more speed, and it does work great where he rides. In the US, it's often very different. Legaly different, and the traffic is different. Only you can decide the best thing to do in your town, based on the route, the time of day, the kind of driving happening around you, etc.

Bottom line is you won't survive if you continue to ride the way you do. The short answer is to stop putting yourself in the risky place. Going faster than they expect in the right lane, they think they have time to make that turn. Others simply don't think, they think it's up to you to stop if they right cross you etc. Or they see you, but think like you are not part of the traffic.

Counting on them to keep you safe is gonna get you killed.

So you either have to take the lane and make them slow down, go slow enough so you can stop in time, or best of all find that safer route.

I had a lot of similar problems my first six months of ebike commuting a 30 mile round trip. Now I take a slightly longer, slightly slower, but hugely safer route. When I must, I take the damn lane and give em the don't hug with me look. I make sure they see me, and if they don't I'm diving for the ditch or curb. I am eyballing every single car that ever overtakes me. But mostly I wind around town by the back streets all alone and hugely safer. Sometimes a safe route is not possible, but use as many safe long cuts as you can.

Think about how your first accident happened. You were crossing the on ramp and a lady changed her mind and hit you. All her fault right? WRONG. You assumed they see you. You assumed the car would do what you expected. Start assuming that they don't see you, and will aim to hit you. They won't hit you if you never give them the slightest chance to.

Of course it's impossible to leave the front door without taking some risk, but you can decide to eyball those huggers in the cars a lot more, with the idea that they mean to kill you. Then start looking at how to never give them any chances to change thier mind and tag you.

Lastly, opening that pandoras box again, you do wear some kind of helmet, right?

Absolutely agree, brilliantly explained! Course aren't an end all be all but it's an organized place to start. I don't always agree with MSF teachings but being able to sort through when/why requires tons of experience so until you've 'got it" best listen and learn from the pros in the business of teaching rider safety.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

E-Bike commuting is about as dangerous as it gets, if you ask me.

At least motorcycles can ride in the middle of the road, where people are more likely to see them and give them the same respect a car would get. Going 20-30 in the middle of the road on a bicycle would not turn out that well. So there you are, on the side of the road, going unexpectedly fast for a bike. For some odd reason, the vast majority of motorists assume you are going to stop for them and just cut you off. The best bet is to assume everyone around you is always going to do the worst thing possible. Never go in front of any car unless you are SURE they see you and intend on not running you over, irrespective of who has the right of way. This means cautiously approaching ALL intersections, regardless of the traffic signals or stop signs. Never assume anyone is going to stop, they might not. If there is a blind intersection, I slow down at the very least. Standing up can help improve your visibility, and allow you to shift more weight towards the rear under heavy braking.

I've been riding my bike most days for about 3 years now, and have yet to have any issues. The closest call I have had to date was another bicyclist who ran a red light, had terrible balance, and was headed right at me for some reason. Lots of people do really stupid things, but as long as you are actively looking for ways out, and know the area, its generally not a big deal.

 

[dogman dan]

Oh god, don't be calling me a genius. But I got the lesson hammered in the hard way soon enough that I still survive.

Bottom line is don't trust em. I'll ride around behind a single car at a stop sign that does see me. I learned this attitude on motorcyles btw, where they still never saw me or gave me any road space or respect. Only time I got respect on the motorcycles was when riding with a shotgun on my shoulder on the way to hunt doves.

 

[Ykick]

Oh god, don't be calling me a genius. But I got the lesson hammered in the hard way soon enough that I still survive.

Bottom line is don't trust em. I'll ride around behind a single car at a stop sign that does see me. I learned this attitude on motorcyles btw, where they still never saw me or gave me any road space or respect. Only time I got respect on the motorcycles was when riding with a shotgun on my shoulder on the way to hunt doves.

You gotta great way with words when explaining the complicated my friend.

What most folks never realize until they "get it" is that this type of "training your mind" will also work wonders when you're behind the wheel of a car/truck. I've always been of the opinion that people really shouldn't be allowed to operate heavy, dangerous vehicles until they've mastered motorcycles. This way, when they screw up it's much less likely to seriously harm other people.

 

[Andje]

no one understands blind spots as well as they think until they get clobbered by a car turning right in front of them because they were in one.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I remember just being in the right hand side of a road lane, and waiting to turn, and some idiot pulls up next to me, doesn't see my CAR and proceeds to push in my front drivers side fender as they advance forward to get a better look at the intersection!

This is while both our windows are open and I am yelling at the top of my lungs and blasting my horn!

Some people are just too preoccupied to be safe drivers sometimes, and I have been guilty of similar mistakes, like the weekend before deploying to the desert, I forgot I was driving on a one-way and left crossed a driver with my truck as I was pulling into a gas station, never looked, because I was thinking that wasn't a lane of traffic, but the shoulder of the road!

Not really sure what they could have done, really was messed up, I turned just as they were about even with my truck, and I was in a full sized short box chevy with large tires (bought it that way one of the worst trucks for the road I ever drove, tires locked up way too easy on dry pavement because of the over-sized tires) and it was just high enough I had hard time seeing compact cars in the lane next to me.

 

[Lebowski]

I always feel... they go a shot at killing me so to even things out and to make it
fair I should have the same chance. If it would be legal to fire a 9mm at a cardriver
whenever one puts you in serious danger, I bet ya they would look out a whole lot
better

 

[ambroseliao]

This guy actually gets run over by an A**hole. You gotta be extra careful out there.

http://youtu.be/FQ7FSSzKkx8

Ambrose

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

This guy actually gets run over by an A**hole. You gotta be extra careful out there.

http://youtu.be/FQ7FSSzKkx8

Ambrose

Yeah, I got a solution for that kind of a$$ unfortunately, CCW's only apply to a few limited states, but the worst part is even if you tried to use mace or W/E you're still likely to get the bad end of the deal.

People like that are a danger to everyone, on the road and off.

Glad they caught it on video, including the brain donor's license plate number! Probably not this idiot's first run in with the law.

Best thing to do in that situation would be to get on the brakes and or pull right until that joker is past ya.

Worst thing is to stay along side anyone, I would never assume anything good is going to come of anyone riding along side me like that.

I have had people do the lane splitting thing to me before, usually it's over and done before you have any time to react unfortunately, but if you see someone coming along side you be ready to move somewhere, that is part of where the "scouting for safety routes" as you ride comes in really handy taught by MSF and others.

If you've already got it in your mind where to go in case of danger, your less likely to spend critical moments assessing the situation, and more time to reacting by heading to the right, getting on the brakes etc.

Even if you were on a motorcycle, and can accelerate fast, you still can't get ahead faster than you can brake, I'm always looking to see what's around me in case I have panic stop/swerve.

 

[dogman dan]

Hmm, I'm confused by that one. I really can't see in the vid what the car actually did to the guy. I was expecting it to be something thrown perhaps. ( A full beer at 60 mph really stings) I can't tell if the truck hooked him with the bumper or what. Did the cyclist just find a bad pothole concealed by the truck?

The guy was definitely right to be wary of getting doored. But maybe would have been better off on an adjacent side street. Often there is no less traveled street in a big town though.

I dunno, I just watched that about 20 more times. You see vibrations in the shot as he rides over some really crappy pavement. You see some more similar vibrations just before he biffs it. And you see and empty parking lane he could have taken. And he could have just touched his brakes and let the jackass in the truck go on. The truck crowded him, but he just rode on letting himself get crowded like an idiot.

I think he got focused on arguing, and stuffed his front wheel in a deep crack in the pavement. Earlier in the vid, you see some real good cracks in the pavement. He simply hit another one while focused on shouting at the truck.

Don't get me wrong, the truck violated the law, or at least in my state it is. But again, why trust them? I'da just touched my brakes. Those cars don't want to stop to argue with you. If they do, it's "go ahead, make my day"

 

[ambroseliao]

If you watch the video frame by frame, you can see that the driver cuts the rider off by coming into the rider's lane. In one frame, you can see the rider put his hand on the side of the truck. If I were the rider, I would have just moved over to the right, but I, like the rider, would probably not have expected to be cut off either.

I did a frame grab of the only frame with the driver's license tag number in it, however, it's quite blurry. Can anyone identify the make of the truck?



Ambrose

 

[dogman dan]

I wasn't catching that, where the bike rider tried to push a truck over out of his way. Obviously, you are going to just push yourself over. Bet he doesn't try that again.

Bottom line, the truck swerved realllllllll sloooooooow. And the idiot on the bike took it like a dog because he was more interested in the argument. Anything, anything at all would have been better than trying to fight 3000 pounds of steel. Swerve, brake, whatever. I still think the rough pavement had a role in the actual crash. Really sure if he took one hand off the bars. There is no question that the guy on the bike allowed the car to screw him. That's the big mistake, allowing it.

Don't do that. Don't allow them to put you at risk. Don't be in the way, don't be on that street if possible. The rider is an idiot to have let that truck get close enough to touch it.

Road rights are great to have, but don't let them be a substitute for being wary and ready to play dodge car.