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[Coast Steve]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say hi.
I'm thinking about getting my bike electrified.
Sold my KTM SXF 250 and miss those rides. but not the noise and smell.

I know no electric bike is a dirt bike, but this 8 ball is just too heavy to ride up hills!

The bike is mint and I bought it brand new in 2001 then broke my spine right after so didn't get to ride it much.
Now I'm 48 and am ready to break my back again.......Oh sorry I mean.. ..ready to RIDE again.

I know this bike will be a challenge to do it too since the frame is so weird, but I want to see my options and learn from the pros.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[bowlofsalad]

I know no electric bike is a dirt bike, but this 8 ball is just too heavy to ride up hills!

The bike is mint and I bought it brand new in 2001 then broke my spine right after so didn't get to ride it much.
Now I'm 48 and am ready to break my back again.......Oh sorry I mean.. ..ready to RIDE again.

I know this bike will be a challenge to do it too since the frame is so weird, but I want to see my options and learn from the pros.

Some people would definitely disagree that an electric bike cannot be a dirt bike. There really isn't much of a limitation to the application of this concept.

I don't know how your back is doing or feels, but some advice for a comfortable or cushy ride. Fat low psi tires and full suspension are great news, uprights can go with the thudbuster. Recumbent is an excellent route for those with back troubles.

I honestly feel like the hard part about ebikes is choosing what will suit you best, this is especially hard for those without any experience or frame of reference.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[dogman dan]

Your experience is a 250 motorcycle, so I bet you will choose the high power route.

Nothing wrong with that, you can handle it for one, and you have the perfect frame for it for two. My approach has been different, preferring to keep the power moderate, (still 1500-3000w) to lighten the bike for better handling. I use special motors that can take it to ride up a hill at 5 mph.

Look to the gurus of more powerful off road hubmotor bikes, Mad Rhino or Hyena. Look at the Crystalyte Crown motor, or the even more powerful Cromotor if you have wide dropouts. (isn't the cromotor wider than 135mm?)

Your bike is perfect, because it has removable rear dropouts. this allows you to make or have made, some burly dropouts that pinch the axle, rather than rely on the axle bolts to secure the motor.

RC lipo battery will likely be your choice to power it. Read read read, so you can do at least 72v, but not burn the house down charging it. Build some boxes that attach to the sides of the bike rather than carry that weight on a rear rack. It might be convenient to have a rack, but mount the controller on it. That's what I do, keeps the mud off it.

72v 10 ah of battery is enough to go for about 8 miles of fast riding. By then, cooling the motor is a good idea. But you can have a beer, pour some of the ice chest water on the motor, then grab a second pack for more riding.

 

[dogman dan]

As usual, some vids of my "only moderate power" dirt bike in action. Check out Hyenas vids on You tube too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfoFxm1GGwk&list=UUOtLHO2wx3K3LfH4Wo2dZCA

 

[Coast Steve]

I didn't even look at the removable rear dropouts. could be handy then.

I'm 180 and the bike's pretty heavy. (51 lbs I think)
Now the cost is a good question I've been wondering about.

I want nothing made in china (I don't think)

What I'm looking for is To run a couple hours up and down some rough logging roads and single track, (some fairly steep)
Also battery placement looks tricky, maybe a backpack?
Dogman you recommend side placement, I wonder if it would be a bit wide when moving around on the bike for the knees

I hope I can keep all of my chain ring protector and I see the bike has a nylon tension pulley on the chain.
Be good if I can keep that too maybe?.

BTW, my back is 100% now so no problem there.

Thanks for the tips, I'll be looking around on the forum from time to time for ideas and things for sale.

Be nice to find a full "kit" that just needs installing.

 

[amberwolf]

I want nothing made in china (I don't think)

That's gonna be something tough to find, especially at a reasonable cost.

I didn't want anything made in china, either, but ended up not having much of a choice for what I wanted to do.

What I'm looking for is To run a couple hours up and down some rough logging roads and single track, (some fairly steep)
Also battery placement looks tricky, maybe a backpack?

Probably not gonna fit a battery that can do that in a normal backpack. Might want to consider metal boxes built onto the bike along it's centerline.


Also, if you poke around the forum you'll find a number of bikes that are probably more powerful than any typical "dirtbike" type motorcycle.

 

[spinningmagnets]

battery placement looks tricky, maybe a backpack?

Go ahead and try that, it may work for you. However...most who have started with that have grown weary of it and searched for another alternative. Here are some options worthy of some consideration if a backpack doesn't work out...(The top one is a "Pelican case", and I think the last one uses two square tubes that have a space between the two tubes to make room for the front tire on max compression)

"Show us you home made battery housing"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12847&start=200

 

[dogman dan]

You will simply have to get over the made in china thing. There are some nice European bikes out there, with bottom bracket integrated motors. Components may still be made in china though, your bike was I betcha. Got about $5000 for the project? If so, go buy a stealth bomber for example, or one of the European bikes.

What you need, rather than a china phobia, is to send your money to the right guy in china, or the right guy on this continent. Cromotor is about the most powerful motor available now, that fit's a bike. I am not positive of this, but I seem to recall it fits 150mm dropout bikes.

Depending on your desire, moderate power, or a more motorcycle like ride, here's a good list of guys on this continent.

Grin Cyclery, The best ebike kit vendor in the world. He pays for this site being ad free btw. In Canada.

http://www.ebikes.ca/index.shtml

Methtek, Has many of the same products supplied by Grin, and others. He's got cool stuff. I think he's got cromotors. California based. http://www.methtek.com/category/motors/

But if you are interested in less power, getting up the steep hills with more pedaling at 10 mph, and a lighter rear end with a smaller motor, go here. http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=common/home

He's in china, but communicates in English as a first language, has a very good rep her, etc. He's the guy that can sell you the same hard to find motors I use on my dirt bikes. You'd have a bike under 100 pounds for sure, and able to climb 10 degrees. Good enough for most logging roads, but it will struggle on a mine road. Horse trails kind of choke all ebikes. Just too steep.

Zombies, Sells the cromotor, and other mad high power stuff. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46832&p=759869&hilit=Cromotor#p759869

 

[Coast Steve]

Lots of good info to look over and think about.
I like quality parts and have had so many issues with cheaply made parts over the years that I just don't bother anymore.
I know China can make state of the art quality items for sure, but we don't see it here. it's just i'm so used to seeing the shipping container loads of plastic junk that just ends up in our landfills.

Euro stuff is good but way over priced in most items Iv'e ever found.

What happened to Canada and the US stuff?
We both make quality items I thought.
Well at least we used to.?

I think I hope to spend between $2-$3k on a good proven well made kit.


Steve

 

[dogman dan]

That's a very realistic budget, even for motorcycle level power.

That budget could even include a lower power experiment. The slower model direct drive motors at Em3ev are pretty modest in price.

The same battery, and pretty powerful controller can still run a bigger motor later, like the crystalyte crown.

The basic list would be the slowest direct drive kit, but upgrade the controller to the 12 fet 40 amps, 36-72v. The slower motor is the cruicial thing, for climbing steeper hills.

On 72v, it will climb very steep hills, and go at least 30 mph. A very fun ride for a modest price. Leaves lots of money for buying batteries to ruin. Cheap to replace that motor when it melts, but you can ride a year between melt downs or longer. Adding a thermometer inside the motor is standard for high power operation. So you can ride without melting motors. I just tend to myself.

The nice thing about this setup, is it is only a 15 pound motor. Big motors are great, but they may weigh 25 pounds.

So many options, but the battery will run any bike, and this option is a cheap way to dip your toe into a real performance ebike without starting out with a 600 buck motor. Others have copied my bike, and been very happy. Look for threads with 9 continent 2810, or 6x10 in the titles.

 

[Coast Steve]

Now this is the best looking kit I've seen yet.
But for 3.5K plus shipping and tax I guess it should be.

http://kranked.myshopify.com/products/ego-kit

but anyway I really like spiningmagnets picture of the pelican case for the battery.
The battery I saw was way longer though and would never fit in there unless taken apart?

Also, I don't need to go smoking along super fast either so a lower powered lower geared unit would do me fine.
But it must have the torque to wheelie and pull along well.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

Made in China is never going to go away. Assembled in USA you will start seeing more of to ensure quality to the customer. Too often products directly from China break or don't work, and yes they honor the warranty, but YOU have to ship it back to them in China. Its crazy expensive an almost never happens.

 

[Coast Steve]

Well here it is.
With lots of help from Wayne Bergman, to organize what I needed and help me wire it all up.
He had good recommendations on what to get and what to leave out.

I then had a machinist make up 2 5021 aluminum dropouts that I screwed onto my originals.
This 5000 series aluminum is wicked hard man and I broke a tap in it. !
Filing it is tough too, plus it "work hardens" if you're not careful. it hacksaws like good hard stainless.

(See last pic for this bracket)

I then spent some time and did a clean install of the wiring, etc
I'm a little funny that way, and any wires hanging out would drive me nuts.

Anyway we went out on a good off-road romp the other day and nothing broke...so that's good.

I see the wife snapped a picture of us heading out too.

 

[waynebergman]

I will add a few comments on Steve's bike. All the same stuff as what is on my bike. Steve's bike and battery weigh in the same as my Giant DH as well with the same motor and battery even though Steve's battery is in his back pack. What is interesting, is Steve's rig here runs a good 10 to 20 degrees cooler than my motor when we are running side by side on the trail, climbing hills. He is also about 40 lb's heavier then me (beer belly) heehee. So this is interesting, it must be the new mac 10 that cellman is doing now. Its is slightly noisier than mine but hardly but the new motors seem to run cooler so this is great. Its nice to have a riding buddy now! Awesome.

 

[Coast Steve]

Don't forget Wayner, I may be pedaling a little harder to keep up the same speed.
like you said the other day, we'll do a no pedaling race test of the same distance and check all the numbers.

"Beer ASS" not beer belly by the looks of that picture .