I bought the outlaw from dillenger recently (~2-3 months) for the full price of $2600.
After some research it seemed a good spec bike for me to start out on and I was hoping to avoid support issues by purchasing from a company with a good reputation.
The bike itself has proven to be a lot of fun, Ive had to do a few upgrades and tweaks as several items broke within the first 2 months:
new chain, new pedal shaft (aluminium pedal wore out and kept undoing the nut) and some new spokes on the rear (broke old 1s while riding).
Nothing to bad there.
The real issue started when with the help of a friend we opened up the bike to figure out why I was getting zapped occasionally (worn wires) and found the battery label advertising the battery as 9ah.
At the time of purchase dillenger advertised it as 11ah (now corrected) so I raised the issue with support and things started to trend down hill fast after there.
Below is the email thread between myself, dillenger support and then finally the manager of dillenger AU Feltcher.
Jul 22
Me
Message Hello.
I recently purchased the outlaw at full price when you were advertising it as having an 11a 48v battery.
Im at the shop now having some work done on it and the tech just told me it only has a 9amp battery.
Please explain.
Given that my bike has not been achieving your claimed speeds im now starting to worry that its because of the battery.
Support
Hi Jacob,
Thanks for your message. The batterie’s do say 9Ah on them however the controller in them boosts it up to 11Ah work load.
Just to let you know, opening up these bikes does void the warranty as explained in the buyers agreement on our online store.
If you have issues with your bike - please let us know.
What work were you having done on it?
Thanks mate.
Kind Regards
Dillenger - Sales
sales@dillenger.com.au
me
The reason the battery was opened because I was experiencing zapping occasionally when touching poles (not often just every now n then).
The local bike shop who also does ebikes had a look for me buy opening the battery compartment (which imho should never void warranty) and there was a clearly a red wire that had been worn and exposed by the battery hitting it against the frame.
At the same time it was pointed out the battery is only 9amp not the 11amp that it was advertised as when I purchases (I see now the specs on the page are correct).
The larger battery was 1 of my attractions to this bike and when I purchased it it definitely helped make my final decision.
The bike tech who I speak with on facebook commented "11a is not a work load, its a battery capacity" and you did indeed advertise as an 11a battery when I purchased the bike.
He also commented that the wires used up the front of the battery (where my short occurred) really need more protection out the factory, he fitted it with some heat shrink + wire protective sleeves to avoid any further damage.
All being said, after having the shorting wire fixed @ the bike shop, Im still satisfied with the bike but feel misled and disappointed knowing now that the range Im getting is quite typical for a 9amp battery in my config when I was hoping for that 20% extra when I expected an 11a battery on purchase.
Jul 24
note: had to prompt support to get their attention again.
Me
Re your claim you boost a battery to 11amp via the controller ? I have spoken to several electricians who have bluntly said "they are full of shit".
I have spoken with consumer affairs who have told me discuss with the company directly and attempt a resolution before going futher with my issue.
I firmly believe you owe me an 11a battery (since that is what you advertised and not "9a boosted to 11a") or compensation for the smaller battery.
I have a snap shot of the original page, I am prepared to go to the ombudsman if you do not address and resolve this issue.
I will also forward your emails where you state you can boost a 9a battery to 11a to all the popular ebike forums so others can be wary of your deceptive advertising.
Please stop spinning me salesman talk bullshit, you clearly advertised it as 11a, you acknowledged so in this very email thread and tried to use the completely bullshit excuse of "err the controller adds another 2 amps". lets get this resolved ASAP so I can get back on enjoying the bike I have even if its not the bike I paid for.
Fletcher (manager)
Hi Jacob,
Thanks for your time.
First up I’d like to apologies on behalf of my staff for misleading you about the capacity of our Outlaw batteries. They were not entirely correct involving the controller however sometimes it’s an easier way to explain a very technical question.
That being said, you deserve the full answers.
The reason why the outlaw was first advertised as a 11Ah battery, why the battery printout says 9Ah and why we have changed the advertisement online back to 9Ah:
All of our latest lithium ion products (kits and bikes) use what's known as a Headway cell. They're commonly called 18650 cells.
Up until last year these were a 2,000mAH cell. This year they have been changed to a 2,400mAH cell, but they are still known as 18650 cells.
The newer cells cost more for us to purchase and then integrate into the products but the higher capacity in the same size was an attractive increase in energy density, so customers are happy.
The Ah of the battery you have is 11Ah @ 48V, but we are still printing 9Ah as nothing else on the battery has changed. We've since taken the 11Ah spec down to 9Ah on the website because we have not yet changed the info written on the battery and other customers have been put off by reading 9Ah. We've also change the designated Ah of the other products back down as if each 18650 cell was still 2,000mAh each.
Eventually we'll list them back up at the actual Ah rating but for now because our labelling is behind the upgrade, we've lowered it back to where it was last year.
I apologise for the concern this has caused and as the owner I'd like to offer you a $150 coupon code for use on our site, should you or a friend ever consider purchasing a Dillenger product (bike or conversion kit).
Thanks Jacob.
Jul 29
Me
Thanks for taking the time to give me a proper response.
Ive been speaking with the local tech further and shown him your reply re the battery specs.
The tech has guessed: my bet is they're at 16s4p pack of 2300mah cells which makes up almost exactly a 9ah 48v
Noting that he still doubts the 11a claim, Id like this cleared up for good as there is fast growing interest in my small local ebike community that I'm having the wool pulled over my eyes, which Id like to put to rest completely.
I have asked for a 2nd battery to be setup in parallel of matching specs to give me the extra range I'm chasing (yes I am aware this will void warranty) which he can custom build to fit the space I have and may require: stripping the battery packaging to confirm the cells used and their config if needed if they cant confirm.
With that in mind, how much would you charge for another battery of the exact chemistry, amps and volts as my existing bike.
Thanks.
Aug 5th
me
Fletcher,
It has been 7 days and no reply.
Can you respond please.
Fletcher
Hi Jacob,
Regarding your request to clear this up for good, please see my last email and our explanation hasn’t changed.
We don’t have any spare outlaw batterie sin stock but may do within the next 3-4 weeks.
Thanks
me
How much would the second battery cost ?
and please if you could let me know the config of the cells.
Alternatively if you have a bottle battery that is the same specs I wouls be interested in that. My aim is to (hopefully) get another 80% range.
Thanks
Jacob
Fletcher
The Outlaw batteries used to be $599.00
Can’t comment on if a bottle battery would be compatible - haven’t seen it done before but the 48V 6Ah bottle battery isn’t going to add much more than 10km to your range.
Aug 15
Me
Hello,
Crashed my bike the other day
So id like to use my $150 gift voucher to get some replacement parts.
I need:
1 LCD screen.
1 Throttle.
1 PAS button set.
I would also like for spares:
2 more throttles throttle.
1 LCD.
Thanks.
Jacob
Aug 21
Fletcher
Hi Jacob,
Ok understood. We’re just in the process of getting a quote and time frame from our supplier regarding these components.
Thanks
Aug 27
Me
Hi Fletcher, still waiting on a price etc ?
Any news.
Fletcher
Yes so are we - we’ll contact you as soon as we find out.
Note:
1-2 days after this email I asked their support chat and was told approx ~$85 but none in stock but that it wouldnt be an issue and they would email me the next day with a price. Once I gave them my email address support stopped being so helpful.
Sep 12
me
any news yet ?
hard to believe its taken 3 weeks to get a quote from the supplier.
Sep 16 (today)
note: this is after I left a complaint about their poor support on their facebook page and was fairly rude to their support chat box, seeing "hi, we are here to help" pop up while browsing to see if I could get parts and after being run around like I had made me snap and I promptly responded "like frock you are" and then rant about their ability to give me a price on the chat within 5 min but when I have a gift voucher and try and order via email I get an endless run around.
Fletcher
Jacob,
$85 for a new handle bar display is my estimate, however I’m still waiting to hear from our supplier in China. Postage will be on top of that.
Believe me or not, this supplier is very slow to get responses out of.
If you have a question, email me.
If you need to rant or swear, find a pillow and yell into it.
Do not, comment on Facebook, or go on chat - ever again.
Me
Fletcher,
Your support is abysmal.
I have been screwed around by your support, then these delays have left me with a rather grim view of your business and after sales support.
For the record I think the bike is a great purchase, I would have been one of your most avid promoters had I not experienced the battery deception, the support trying to void my warrant and lie about the battery and then finally this seemingly unreasonable delay for a price on an LCD screen.
Imagine my frustration when I ask your chat support 1 week ago for a price and they have it for me within minutes and yet Im waiting for your email for weeks.
Please order the LCD from your supplier and notify me when it can be delivered.
Fletcher
Jacob,
Why would I go out of my way for you, when, after you send your email you go and comment on my site leaving a negative review?
Why?
Me
Supplying spare parts for a bike make and sell is going out of your way ?
After some research it seemed a good spec bike for me to start out on and I was hoping to avoid support issues by purchasing from a company with a good reputation.
The bike itself has proven to be a lot of fun, Ive had to do a few upgrades and tweaks as several items broke within the first 2 months:
new chain, new pedal shaft (aluminium pedal wore out and kept undoing the nut) and some new spokes on the rear (broke old 1s while riding).
Nothing to bad there.
The real issue started when with the help of a friend we opened up the bike to figure out why I was getting zapped occasionally (worn wires) and found the battery label advertising the battery as 9ah.
At the time of purchase dillenger advertised it as 11ah (now corrected) so I raised the issue with support and things started to trend down hill fast after there.
Below is the email thread between myself, dillenger support and then finally the manager of dillenger AU Feltcher.
Jul 22
Me
Message Hello.
I recently purchased the outlaw at full price when you were advertising it as having an 11a 48v battery.
Im at the shop now having some work done on it and the tech just told me it only has a 9amp battery.
Please explain.
Given that my bike has not been achieving your claimed speeds im now starting to worry that its because of the battery.
Support
Hi Jacob,
Thanks for your message. The batterie’s do say 9Ah on them however the controller in them boosts it up to 11Ah work load.
Just to let you know, opening up these bikes does void the warranty as explained in the buyers agreement on our online store.
If you have issues with your bike - please let us know.
What work were you having done on it?
Thanks mate.
Kind Regards
Dillenger - Sales
sales@dillenger.com.au
me
The reason the battery was opened because I was experiencing zapping occasionally when touching poles (not often just every now n then).
The local bike shop who also does ebikes had a look for me buy opening the battery compartment (which imho should never void warranty) and there was a clearly a red wire that had been worn and exposed by the battery hitting it against the frame.
At the same time it was pointed out the battery is only 9amp not the 11amp that it was advertised as when I purchases (I see now the specs on the page are correct).
The larger battery was 1 of my attractions to this bike and when I purchased it it definitely helped make my final decision.
The bike tech who I speak with on facebook commented "11a is not a work load, its a battery capacity" and you did indeed advertise as an 11a battery when I purchased the bike.
He also commented that the wires used up the front of the battery (where my short occurred) really need more protection out the factory, he fitted it with some heat shrink + wire protective sleeves to avoid any further damage.
All being said, after having the shorting wire fixed @ the bike shop, Im still satisfied with the bike but feel misled and disappointed knowing now that the range Im getting is quite typical for a 9amp battery in my config when I was hoping for that 20% extra when I expected an 11a battery on purchase.
Jul 24
note: had to prompt support to get their attention again.
Me
Re your claim you boost a battery to 11amp via the controller ? I have spoken to several electricians who have bluntly said "they are full of shit".
I have spoken with consumer affairs who have told me discuss with the company directly and attempt a resolution before going futher with my issue.
I firmly believe you owe me an 11a battery (since that is what you advertised and not "9a boosted to 11a") or compensation for the smaller battery.
I have a snap shot of the original page, I am prepared to go to the ombudsman if you do not address and resolve this issue.
I will also forward your emails where you state you can boost a 9a battery to 11a to all the popular ebike forums so others can be wary of your deceptive advertising.
Please stop spinning me salesman talk bullshit, you clearly advertised it as 11a, you acknowledged so in this very email thread and tried to use the completely bullshit excuse of "err the controller adds another 2 amps". lets get this resolved ASAP so I can get back on enjoying the bike I have even if its not the bike I paid for.
Fletcher (manager)
Hi Jacob,
Thanks for your time.
First up I’d like to apologies on behalf of my staff for misleading you about the capacity of our Outlaw batteries. They were not entirely correct involving the controller however sometimes it’s an easier way to explain a very technical question.
That being said, you deserve the full answers.
The reason why the outlaw was first advertised as a 11Ah battery, why the battery printout says 9Ah and why we have changed the advertisement online back to 9Ah:
All of our latest lithium ion products (kits and bikes) use what's known as a Headway cell. They're commonly called 18650 cells.
Up until last year these were a 2,000mAH cell. This year they have been changed to a 2,400mAH cell, but they are still known as 18650 cells.
The newer cells cost more for us to purchase and then integrate into the products but the higher capacity in the same size was an attractive increase in energy density, so customers are happy.
The Ah of the battery you have is 11Ah @ 48V, but we are still printing 9Ah as nothing else on the battery has changed. We've since taken the 11Ah spec down to 9Ah on the website because we have not yet changed the info written on the battery and other customers have been put off by reading 9Ah. We've also change the designated Ah of the other products back down as if each 18650 cell was still 2,000mAh each.
Eventually we'll list them back up at the actual Ah rating but for now because our labelling is behind the upgrade, we've lowered it back to where it was last year.
I apologise for the concern this has caused and as the owner I'd like to offer you a $150 coupon code for use on our site, should you or a friend ever consider purchasing a Dillenger product (bike or conversion kit).
Thanks Jacob.
Jul 29
Me
Thanks for taking the time to give me a proper response.
Ive been speaking with the local tech further and shown him your reply re the battery specs.
The tech has guessed: my bet is they're at 16s4p pack of 2300mah cells which makes up almost exactly a 9ah 48v
Noting that he still doubts the 11a claim, Id like this cleared up for good as there is fast growing interest in my small local ebike community that I'm having the wool pulled over my eyes, which Id like to put to rest completely.
I have asked for a 2nd battery to be setup in parallel of matching specs to give me the extra range I'm chasing (yes I am aware this will void warranty) which he can custom build to fit the space I have and may require: stripping the battery packaging to confirm the cells used and their config if needed if they cant confirm.
With that in mind, how much would you charge for another battery of the exact chemistry, amps and volts as my existing bike.
Thanks.
Aug 5th
me
Fletcher,
It has been 7 days and no reply.
Can you respond please.
Fletcher
Hi Jacob,
Regarding your request to clear this up for good, please see my last email and our explanation hasn’t changed.
We don’t have any spare outlaw batterie sin stock but may do within the next 3-4 weeks.
Thanks
me
How much would the second battery cost ?
and please if you could let me know the config of the cells.
Alternatively if you have a bottle battery that is the same specs I wouls be interested in that. My aim is to (hopefully) get another 80% range.
Thanks
Jacob
Fletcher
The Outlaw batteries used to be $599.00
Can’t comment on if a bottle battery would be compatible - haven’t seen it done before but the 48V 6Ah bottle battery isn’t going to add much more than 10km to your range.
Aug 15
Me
Hello,
Crashed my bike the other day
So id like to use my $150 gift voucher to get some replacement parts.
I need:
1 LCD screen.
1 Throttle.
1 PAS button set.
I would also like for spares:
2 more throttles throttle.
1 LCD.
Thanks.
Jacob
Aug 21
Fletcher
Hi Jacob,
Ok understood. We’re just in the process of getting a quote and time frame from our supplier regarding these components.
Thanks
Aug 27
Me
Hi Fletcher, still waiting on a price etc ?
Any news.
Fletcher
Yes so are we - we’ll contact you as soon as we find out.
Note:
1-2 days after this email I asked their support chat and was told approx ~$85 but none in stock but that it wouldnt be an issue and they would email me the next day with a price. Once I gave them my email address support stopped being so helpful.
Sep 12
me
any news yet ?
hard to believe its taken 3 weeks to get a quote from the supplier.
Sep 16 (today)
note: this is after I left a complaint about their poor support on their facebook page and was fairly rude to their support chat box, seeing "hi, we are here to help" pop up while browsing to see if I could get parts and after being run around like I had made me snap and I promptly responded "like frock you are" and then rant about their ability to give me a price on the chat within 5 min but when I have a gift voucher and try and order via email I get an endless run around.
Fletcher
Jacob,
$85 for a new handle bar display is my estimate, however I’m still waiting to hear from our supplier in China. Postage will be on top of that.
Believe me or not, this supplier is very slow to get responses out of.
If you have a question, email me.
If you need to rant or swear, find a pillow and yell into it.
Do not, comment on Facebook, or go on chat - ever again.
Me
Fletcher,
Your support is abysmal.
I have been screwed around by your support, then these delays have left me with a rather grim view of your business and after sales support.
For the record I think the bike is a great purchase, I would have been one of your most avid promoters had I not experienced the battery deception, the support trying to void my warrant and lie about the battery and then finally this seemingly unreasonable delay for a price on an LCD screen.
Imagine my frustration when I ask your chat support 1 week ago for a price and they have it for me within minutes and yet Im waiting for your email for weeks.
Please order the LCD from your supplier and notify me when it can be delivered.
Fletcher
Jacob,
Why would I go out of my way for you, when, after you send your email you go and comment on my site leaving a negative review?
Why?
Me
Supplying spare parts for a bike make and sell is going out of your way ?
