DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

[sl33py]

I don't get it, its a DIY forum. He wants to do it himself, so what's the problem? Especially after torque said it's ok, who are we to interfere. Who knows, maybe he can make that mount much better and benefit us. He certainly wont find out if we hold him from doing it.

I also find it ironic that onloop is not ok with someone else doing something based on someone's work, but he created another e-board forum.

Definitely some truth to that. I guess the part i have issue with is that he did not improve it and share his files, he merely made a copy and then posted "i'm going to copy his mount". It would be entirely different if he said - i used his mount as a starting point and now it has purple farkles mounted to these 5 spots to make nighttime visibility better in my area... anything to make it better for himself or the community. Not the case though. A rip-off of Torque's work and $ developing it. Then to bash onloop who *did* release his mount as open source for exactly this need (someone who has the skill to make them). Bashing it as not as not good enough...

I'm overly sensitive maybe. I refuse to support inboard's M1 KS when they used VESC controllers and didn't give credit to Vedder. Even though it's open source - i think respect and credit to those who devoted the time to develop and build it is absolutely required.

Dead horse, i'll stop kicking it...

 

[kimboviper]

I don't get it, its a DIY forum. He wants to do it himself, so what's the problem? Especially after torque said it's ok, who are we to interfere. Who knows, maybe he can make that mount much better and benefit us. He certainly wont find out if we hold him from doing it.

I also find it ironic that onloop is not ok with someone else doing something based on someone's work, but he created another e-board forum.

Definitely some truth to that. I guess the part i have issue with is that he did not improve it and share his files, he merely made a copy and then posted "i'm going to copy his mount". It would be entirely different if he said - i used his mount as a starting point and now it has purple farkles mounted to these 5 spots to make nighttime visibility better in my area... anything to make it better for himself or the community. Not the case though. A rip-off of Torque's work and $ developing it. Then to bash onloop who *did* release his mount as open source for exactly this need (someone who has the skill to make them). Bashing it as not as not good enough...

I'm overly sensitive maybe. I refuse to support inboard's M1 KS when they used VESC controllers and didn't give credit to Vedder. Even though it's open source - i think respect and credit to those who devoted the time to develop and build it is absolutely required.

Dead horse, i'll stop kicking it...

damn how did you find out inboard is using vedders esc?

 

[CSN]

Sl33py

What's up with your Marbel?

Is it functioning?

 

[kennet_h]

I don't get it, its a DIY forum. He wants to do it himself, so what's the problem? Especially after torque said it's ok, who are we to interfere. Who knows, maybe he can make that mount much better and benefit us. He certainly wont find out if we hold him from doing it.

I also find it ironic that onloop is not ok with someone else doing something based on someone's work, but he created another e-board forum.

x2

And to give someone shit, for copying a metal mount for his own build, While he sells cloned rebranded caliber trucks, for a profit at hes own shop?

I don't have a problem with him doing this, but find it strange that he is the one to throw a fit over this.

 

[MrYetiMan]

lol mockage :lol:

 

[skate-or-die]

If onloop is just reslling re-branded clones at an upmark where is the innovation in that? I think he is being too hypocritical

Nice board choice OP!

 

[cmatson]

This is pretty freakin intense...

*grabs popcorn*

 

[torqueboards]

This getting out of hand. Ya'll are both good guys. Let's all agree to disagree..

Now it's just ego's fighting for no reason at all but bad first impressions..

I have stuff to say but there's no point in mentioning and moving off topic because none of it matters.

As I've said.. I'm fine with SubCreative copying the design just as long as it's for his own personal use and he doesn't freely distribute his files. I'm happy he's rather sharing his build than not sharing his build on ES.

If he wants to save a few bucks and put in his time. That's great... I think it's even better is he's contributing to VESC which is nice as well.

So kiss and make up you ladies... :lol: now onto what really matters.... Eboards and this build.....

 

[sk8norcal]

Ok, first of all, no name calling, forum rule.

I deleted the 2 comments from 2 users.
Consider that a warning.


OP copied an existing design on the market, which he stated in his original post.
and it's for his personal use.

Some don't like this, some thinks it's not cool.
Some thinks it's OK.

Regardless, I think everyone said their piece, so let's all chill out, or I have to lock the thread.

 

[onloop]

Wow your thread is getting crazy...

So... Suppose I should reinvent the wheel as well?

What about bearings? Do I need to innovate before I can sell them?

Bolts? Should I design a new thread type?

Do I need to formulate a new urethane formula if I am going to sell wheels?

Of course not? Why? Because all this stuff is standard skateboard hardware.... its common.

Did I copy caliber? No... I found a factory in china that makes the caliber hanger, did they copy it or did they design it? Who knows. The enertion base plate is actually different then caliber.

It's worth noting, I can actually buy caliber wholesale, but reselling them is not viable... as you all agree my prices are already too high, so I found a cheaper way to deliver the results. My objective here was to make things cheaper for people who want the whole kit.


So now let's address the part about making profits.


Option 1:
I sell you all parts at cost price to make you all happy.
However as a business I still need to pay tax based on revenue, not profit.
In Australia this income tax is between 30-40%
So now I lose just under half of all revenue out the back door..
I go broke instantly.
No more products for sale, no more innovation, game over....

Also no warranty no support.

Of course I'm not going to do that...

Option 2:
I mark up goods to a value greater than the cost.
This amount needs to cover tax liability, import duties, miscellaneous running costs, website hosting fees, packaging material, prototyping new products, making molds, paying developers. blah blah blah. boring business stuff.

So now my stuff is expensive.. but at least I am in existence. I can survive and pay some bills. And with what's left over I can invest in some new stuff.

Things such as:
1. Carbon fiber deck: which I sold the first 10 of at cost price.
2. The space cell battery: so people can build slim eboards with quality batteries. (I also sent vedder one for free... and I cash donated to him too..)
3. The latest development is a Dual Vesc. 2in1. On one PCB.. Less wires for power input, capacitors direct mounted to pcb, redundant parts removed to reduce cost.... this will make building a dual drive board very easy.

So tell me what should I do?

Anyway....

I was brought up, as are most kids in australia not to copy, in fact at school you get punished for it.

I appologise for ripping into you so hard it was uncalled for.. I suppose it's a soft spot.

I hope you do start a business and start making some cool new products for us to discuss and test.

Yours respectfully
Jason potter.

 

[onloop]

@sk8norcal

Sorry...I was typing my last post when you wrote your last comment...

 

[sk8norcal]

@sk8norcal

Sorry...I was typing my last post when you wrote your last comment...

no worries.

Do I need to formulate a new urethane formula if I am going to sell wheels?

Of course not? Why? Because all this stuff is standard skateboard hardware.... its common.

Did I copy caliber? No... I found a factory in china that makes the caliber hanger, did they copy it or did they design it? Who knows. The enertion base plate is actually different then caliber.

In the longboard world, people really dislike things like this.

Ever since, we start seeing China randal clones pop up on cheap boards.

FYI, Randal Fuller popularized the "RKP" design for downhilling. He worked on the design since the late 70's.
As longboarding got popular, various "clones" pop up, paris gullwing, caliber, gunmetal, etc... same idea but different in looks.

Calibers were designed by longboarders. They had it made in China.
Calibers and Gunmetal are similar looking because the owners had a spit. Your baseplate is probably similar to the gunmetal one. Caliber actually made a small batch of that plate also. A friend of mine who works at Caliber in Santa Cruz told me that.

You wheels are a clone of ABEC11 Flywheel. Abec11 was started by Chris Chaput, long time skater who was a freestyle champ in the 70's. He is a very creative guy who designed many interstesting skate wheels/trucks, etc. The wheels are made at AEND in Huntington Beach. They make some of the best wheels available. Urethane advancement is one of biggest contribution to longboarding. Who owns the formula? I believe it's the chemical companies.

Anyways, many people, many hours were spent on the design of these products.

I respect these guys, that's why I don't want to buy any clone copy products.
And you won't find any hardcore longboarders using this stuff either.
You want to support the companies that are bring innovation to the sport.


I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time give credit to those that deserve it.

 

[onloop]

@SK8NORCAL In time maybe I will have my own urethane and currently working on precision trucks design.... all in good time. For now my focus is electric skateboard parts.


SUBCREATIVE. I figure at this point you have an irreversible & supreme hatred for me. I apologised already nothing more I can do or say now, let's just part ways.

So, please tell me the order number and I I will refund you. I don't think we should do business together.

 

[sk8norcal]

that's a nice length,

wb (20.875"-24")

 

[onloop]

Brian petrie certainly makes a nice deck... awesome shape. should be fun.

What wheel base you running?

 

[verruckt]

How are you avoiding massive wheelbite running 90mm wheels? What thickness of risers are you using?

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

From the looks of that remote.. It looks to be good to go.

I bought one also to test it out but haven't received it yet. I purchased maybe a week or two ago. You can see the receiver on the Amazon website in the reviews (someone pointed it out.)

Nice Clone No, hard feelings at all. Looks great so far!

your new mount that connects to the caliber is really nice torque! If it was around long ago, and it was a bit cheaper, I might have saved myself a fortune in dollars and time.

 

[jamesonotc]

Picked up the T6 aluminum materials and dropped everything off with my CNC machinist today, should have some mounts to show off by next week hopefully

I'm thinking you should find a way to incorporate the VESC inside a mount and run the motor wires directly there..


Interesting thought..

 

[jamesonotc]

getting one asap! thanks for sharing. I've contacted benchwheel to see if they have any in stock over there. The amazon listing is now sold out and unavailable.

Thanks for taking the images.

 

[jamesonotc]

WOW! Thatsa wholelatta mounts.

 

[whitepony]

this does not look very much like "personal use" of the design :?

 

[torqueboards]

this does not look very much like "personal use" of the design :?

:|

 

[cmatson]

Looks like I might have a few extra mounts on my hands :wink:

bad idea- you've gotten enough controversy over just making one for yourself, now you are making like 50...

This thread is going to explode...

 

[astilwell611]

wow this is pretty messed up. You didn't have to use all your material you could have saved it for later projects. The only way I see this being okay was if Torque was getting some of the cash from each one of those you sell. But still pretty messed up to blatantly copy someone else design for resale without their permission.

 

[okp]

But still pretty messed up to blatantly copy someone else design for resale without their permission.

is this a fact ? I mean, where did he stated that he's going to sell them ? this is not fair to make such statement unless you are clear proof (or written statement) of the fact that he was planning to sell them.