EV Myths - add your own!

[billvon]

Great, so do you think average Joe Owner is going to go that way ?
...remember most owners even pay someone else to wash the car , never mind scan diagnostics !
The average owner is a driver , not a technician.

Agreed. In the case of a non-technical car owner, he is much better off with an EV - less required maintenance, fewer "check engine" lights to try to decipher.

 

[Alan B]

At least for the Leaf, the ODB2 scanners and apps are very common. Anyone wanting to DIY those type of inspections can easily do that. I have certainly done that. In order to get a warranty battery Nissan has to do a battery evaluation, but the essential information is on the dash. That's the advantage of an EV, more of the diagnostics can be automated into the vehicle at very low cost. Whereas in an ICE lots of sensors are required to do the equivalent process. Those may or may not be required for normal operation of the systems, so they may present additional costs in manufacturing and design. In the EV these "sensors" are inherently part of the electronics. Properly designed and manufactured electronics have a much greater life than mechanical parts and have inherently fewer things that need "inspection". Not to say that electronics is cheap to replace or cannot be done "wrong", we've certainly seen that. EVs haven't' hit the economy of scale yet.

The situation for aircraft is a bit different. The discussion here was about whether the manufacturer would deny warranty because some inspections were missing. No examples of this occurring have been shown. I think the best comparison is of an older used vehicle. What "must" be done in order to keep it going. The ICE has a far greater list of things (and costs) that will cause major damage if not completed.

There is certainly no requirement in the USA (that I'm aware of) for a "licensed technician" to be required to do routine maintenance on their own vehicle. To charge for the process, as to be in business, is another story. I can't speak for other parts of the world, perhaps that's another of the USA's "freedoms" that other countries don't follow. It is essentially a requirement for the manufacturer to make routine maintenance something that the owner can take care of. If they did not have requirements like this the manufacturer's could make it impossible for the owner to do these things. I suppose we have at least one example - at least one state that won't allow you to pump your own fuel.. Hard to believe, but at least Oregon used to do that. I think it was more of a guaranteed employment plan than a real safety concern. Again, it becomes a requirement for manufacturer's to make fuel pumping equipment safe and accessible for the below average user.

 

[LockH]

Hehe... ^^ Nice one Alan. ... and you folks riding "cheater" bikes (using an assist)... already mentioned about the fears and ignorance displayed by others re any "new tech":
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53101&p=1006740#p1006740

:lol:

 

[Punx0r]

Tesla shedule is to change the transmission oil at 12500 miles , then every other service.
Leaf id to check level and topup every service.

Both of these are abnormal and not indicative of what an EV or ICE actually requires these days. The Tesla spec is probably due to their past problems with transmission failures (inadequate design). The Leaf either has a problem with leaks or they're padding the service schedule to keep the dealers happy.

Take a look under most ICE cars built in the last 10-20 years and you will see numerous examples of transmissions of all types and rear axles with no facility to check, drain or top-up fluid level and they do no feature on the service plan anywhere. There is absolutely no need on an EV, either.

The impressive thing about EVs is that despite being brand new technology to most vehicle manufacturers they are still more reliable than the ICE cars they have decades of experience manufacturing.

The only maintenance you can do on any of these parts is maybe a coolant change if they are liquid-cooled and there's no reason that can't be at 5+ year intervals due to the lower demands these components put on the coolant.

That is just your opinion. The manufacturers have a more experienced view.

Wrong. Before the days of OAT coolant manufacturers did indeed recommend a 2 year replacement schedule. Around 10-15 years ago nearly all ICE car manufacturers switched to OAT (pink/orange/red instead of blue/green) which has a ~5 year service life. Accordingly most manufacturers recommend it be changed every 4-5 years.

You probably don't realise that the "cooling" and "anti-boil" functions of the coolant do not deteriorate with age/use and it lasts indefinitely in this sense. However, the anti-corrosion additives do become depleted over time and this is why it must be changed periodically. An ICE and it's radiator has a large surface area prone to corrosion (and the very high temperatures at the interface to the cylinder liners is a particular problem). By contrast, corrosion-prone materials can largely be engineered out of an EV drivetrain, extending the life of the coolant additive pack and reducing the required frequency of replacement.

Its a good job you dont work in aircraft maintenance..or any practical cemmercial industry come to that !
inspection is the very foundation of any maintenance program, and the frequency of the inspections is carefully determined to detect faults BEFORE failure occures (think of that aircraft again!). Cars are no different..

No, passenger cars are not like aircraft. If they were they would cost at least ten times as much as they do.

The battery/inverter/motor in an EV are not serviceable parts. They should last the lifetime of the vehicle. Should the beginnings of a fault occur then the warning light on the dash should come on and you go to the garage for replacement before it strands you at the roadside (any properly designed battery will not become a safety hazard through a foreseeable failure, such as a low cell group).

This is simple. If an annual inspection is required to catch failure of components that should never fail then that car (ICE or EV) hasn't been designed or manufactured properly.

There is benefit to inspecting parts to catch an failure in the early stages if doing so prevents extra damage (and repair cost) to other parts.

Electronics are not "FIT AND FORGET" components. Industries have been using these DC drives and power electronics systems for many years, and there are some comprehensive maintenance schemes even for what might seem a simple control cabinet with all solid state components, simple things like cleaning heat sinks, and filters, checking cooling fans , thermal imaging of all components , cable runs, and connectors, to check for hot spots....

Well designed electronics are exactly fit-and-forget. They have hermetically sealed enclosures with due regard given to resisting vibration and thermal stresses.

How often do you check your ICE car's wiring for hot-spots and corrosion? :lol: Connection protection on a 12V system is usually sloppy because there is no danger of electric shock. This is not true of the HV wiring on an EV powertrain - it's better engineered.

Also, how to you propose getting an EV's HV wiring up to full temperature to check for hot spots? Run it flat out on a rolling road for an hour?! :lol:

Your frame of reference is clearly stationary industrial control systems with low IP ratings. The situation here is usually that downtime far exceeds the cost of replacement components, so inspections and replacement of still-working parts on a cautionary basis is justified. This is not relevant to passenger cars and particularly not to an EV drivetrain.

 

[Hillhater]

Total Cost of ownership survey from Europe....
There is more also with the Tesla S at €0.80c/km

 

[Hillhater]

The US AAA also evaluated ownership costs but without the model details.
Note: the quoted tha EV s had a lower annual maintenance and repair cost of only $982 !

AAA evaluated 45 2017 model-year vehicles across nine categories and focused on mid-range, top-selling vehicles. The annual driving cost is based on a sales-weighted average of the individual costs for all of the vehicle types, according to AAA.

Vehicle Type Annual Cost* ..... Vehicle Type Annual Cost*
Small Sedan $6,354 ....... ...... Minivan $9,146
Small SUV $7,606 ....... ...... Large Sedan $9,399
Hybrid $7687 ................... Medium SUV $9,451
Medium Sedan $8,171 ....... Pickup Truck $10,054
Electric Vehicle $8,439

 

[LockH]

Total Cost of ownership survey from Europe....

Hehe... Re the "worst"/highest cost cars...
Opel to swap Ampera-e (aka Bolt EV) for all-electric Corsa model in 2020
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-bolt-ev-for-all-electric-corsa-model-in-2020

 

[edcastrovalley]

The US AAA also evaluated ownership costs but without the model details.
Note: the quoted tha EV s had a lower annual maintenance and repair cost of only $982 !

AAA evaluated 45 2017 model-year vehicles across nine categories and focused on mid-range, top-selling vehicles. The annual driving cost is based on a sales-weighted average of the individual costs for all of the vehicle types, according to AAA.

Vehicle Type Annual Cost* ..... Vehicle Type Annual Cost*
Small Sedan $6,354 ....... ...... Minivan $9,146
Small SUV $7,606 ....... ...... Large Sedan $9,399
Hybrid $7687 ................... Medium SUV $9,451
Medium Sedan $8,171 ....... Pickup Truck $10,054
Electric Vehicle $8,439

How about a used electric? I calculated my used 2012 i-miev I've had for 3 years is costing me $1750 annually with depreciation.

Buying a set of tires for it about killed me but I faithfully included it in the cost.