halbach arrays (was peak torque)

Miles said:
phyllis said:
Miles said:
and hang the motor pulley/freewheel from that (supported by a bearing)? Too much crank offset?
I don't understand... is motor concentric to crank spindle? Don't quite see it.
I meant the motor drive pulley (large one) & freewheel .

The inner part of the motor drive freewheel is connected to the outer part of the crank/output freewheel.

The inner part of the crank/output freewheel is mounted on the bottom bracket spindle.

See: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=356222#p356222

More complicated to do than your present plan but it would give you dual isolation.

No, I don't think that would work for what I want to do - Two selectable reduction ratios for the motor, and two selectable overdrive ratios for the pedals. See if I've got it right:
His drawing is from the rear, mine is from the front.
His right freewheel is clocked opposite to the left fw.
Thus it is impossible to drive the right freewheel with the pedals.

But on mine, both freewheels are clocked the same way.
I've put letters on the pulleys to make it easier to refer to. C and D holds the rear wheel drive chain. Inside of fw1 mates to crank, outside mates to B. Inside of Fw2 hangs from B, outside mates to C.
View attachment biketranny-ABCD.png
It might be wise to add a bearing between the outer freewheel and the axle, to take the radial load. Otherwise, it's cantilevered from the single bearing unit in the inner freewheel....
Yup. that is a good idea.
 
Miles said:
Sorry! You're right. 5.5 rpm/V :oops:

Ok good. However right now it looks like it's going to be a 2 stator with a bit hotter wind too, so maybe Kv around 9 is more likely.

Wouldn't want to end up not grilling the first stators due to too little voltage.
 
phyllis said:
Miles said:
It might be wise to add a bearing between the outer freewheel and the axle, to take the radial load. Otherwise, it's cantilevered from the single bearing unit in the inner freewheel....
Yup. that is a good idea.
See also: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25153
 
Miles said:
A 20mm wide PowerGrip GT3 M8 belt on an 18t pulley will handle a torque of somewhere around 35Nm, I think....

oops, that bad huh. Is that from experience or what?
Some of the big road motorcycles use belt but never seen a dirt or trials bike with it. probably because of dirt wearing it down, or the small chainwheels?
Some small trials bikes use 420 chain. seems like a good starting point, can be twice the strength of bike chain, same pitch so can use small sprockets.
Thanks for the info. Good reference thread. FYI, sprag are not the same as needle roller one ways. sprags have, eh, sprags, and are usually integrated in ball bearings. needle clutches are very low profile and some have additional loadbearing needles on each side. I only know one bike product with them, stealth hubs. bit over 500g, said to be very durable (later generation, previously they exploded radially), instant engagement. A bit drag, they say. It uses 35mm rollers far as I could tell from pics but might use two, nothing to suggest it though.
 
phyllis said:
Miles said:
A 20mm wide PowerGrip GT3 M8 belt on an 18t pulley will handle a torque of somewhere around 35Nm, I think....

oops, that bad huh. Is that from experience or what?
It's the max. level you get using the software calculators (inputting the minimum service factor). Ok, it's not going to ratchet at that level, but...... There's a power table in the attached PDF for 8M HTD belts.

See also: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=126539#p126539
 

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phyllis said:
Good reference thread. FYI, sprag are not the same as needle roller one ways. sprags have, eh, sprags, and are usually integrated in ball bearings. needle clutches are very low profile and some have additional loadbearing needles on each side.
Sure. I was just steering waxman123 away from the drawn cup needle roller clutches. They might be ok for use on a motor shaft but aren't that practical for use at the cranks...... I used a CSK35 sprag clutch bearing on the motor drive of my eMoulton.
 
phyllis said:
No, I don't think that would work for what I want to do - Two selectable reduction ratios for the motor, and two selectable overdrive ratios for the pedals.
I think I was misunderstanding your diagram. How are you getting two ratios for the pedals?
 
I'll see if I can crank up the old rhinoceros 3d again and make a decent sketch.

Anyway, exchange A and B for chain sprockets. B and C are 28t to keep good ground clearance. A is the smallest possible - 11t seems ok in rear cassettes at least. The rearwheel chain is running on C and D.

1st pedal gear, the dog is not engaged so D is running free. Cranks drive C, the output sprocket, directly through the two freewheels. As you noticed B will also turn, and drive A and the motor.

2nd pedal gear, B is driving A and the motor, and the dogs are engaged so D is locked to the motor shaft and is the output sprocket. D is bigger than A. Fw 2 makes sure that C is overrunning.

To get my desired pedal ratios, 1/1.2 and 1/1.8, rear must then be 24t, and then D is 17t.
The motor reduction is 2.2 and 1.4. I'm not sure the 1.4 is going to be very useful.
Making sense?
 
My new m8 18t 16mm pulley on its way...
!CD4PCuwCGk~$(KGrHqEOKjkE0Yv1UgOlBNQD-o!0wg~~_3.JPG
I think the ratings of these thing aren't making me any wiser, never seen a tensile strength number, shear stress per tooth, or what it takes to make them ratchet. This is for (A), looking for a goodyear eagle pd y45 for (B).
You reckon it's some sort of copper/brass/bronze alloy, or is it steel?
 
Quite possibly phosphor bronze from the look of it. Can you give it a buff? :)

~KF
 
just bought it from ebay, so it'll be a few days/weeks. Phosphor bronze sounds like a reasonable material to make pulleys out of.
 
Herbertkabi says here that solder wick will not generate significant eddy currents.

Taking a formula from wikipedia:
w = pi^2 * B * d^2 * f^2 / (12 * ro * D)
w is Watt per kg
B is peak flux in Tesla
d is diameter of wire in meters
f is frequency in Hz (rpm*poles/120)
ro is resistivity in Ohm-m (copper = 1.68 * 10^-8)
D is density in kg/m3

With a 0.5mm wire, at 1000 rpm, flux density 0.6, 36 poles, I get 89 watt per kg.

For a flat sheet, the formula is exactly the same, except d is now thickness, and the divisor "12" is only 6. So, twice the loss for the same "d".

However, as noted by Shane Colton in the earlier referred paper, which I had failed to grasp earlier, if there is leakage between neighbouring mags, then there is also a tangential field component, which makes eddies in the flat wire.
As he says, LEAF had a large gap (17.8mm) and also the mags were pretty close.
In a halbach with a small gap, there won't be as much tangential flux I think.
LEAF's noload current with trap drive was 15A at 1500 rpm, 19.7v = 296 watt.
According to the above formula the eddy losses should have been 22.6 watt. Here is what I put into it:
16AWG 1:4 aspect ratio = 1.31mm^2, 0.57 x 2.29 mm
120 turns, 101.6mm active length of each turn. 4 parallell strands. 0.63 kg copper.
16 poles. 0.5T

I think though, that since these watt are made from the motion of the mags, that there is an additional loss associated with eddy currents in motors, that are not accounted for in the formula. That is, there is a resistance loss from the current that is needed to produce 22.6 mechanical watt in the first place. 22.6 watt at 1500 rpm is about 0.15 Nm, and with Kt=0.13 that is 1.16A, which with 19.7v input doubles the "eddy" loss - 45.4 watt.

Is that a valid way to calculate? If so, how do we model/calculate/estimate the losses in flat endwindings?

Slideshow with illustration of eddy currents.
 
Is the heavy duty ENO more heavy duty than the green trials version (36t ratchet 3x2pawls=72 clicks)? Is the HD 1x6=36 clicks, maybe? If so, it should be stronger I think?

Attached a rhino sketch. The green things are the fw's, the yellow ones are the belt pulleys. No bearings drawn and lots of structural stuff omitted.
 

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phyllis said:
Is the heavy duty ENO more heavy duty than the green trials version? I assume they are the same except for the pawls arrangement, so if the trials fw doesn't have more pawls it is going to be weaker.
The only difference within any of the ENO freewheels is that the green version has an extra set of pawls staggered to the normal set, this give you twice as many engagement points but is no stronger...
 
Ah, thanks.

The teeth will only engage half as many times, so if fatigue has an impact at all on the strength of the pawls, it might matter. And it has more engagements too :). I stupidly thought the name "heavy duty" (HD) ment something.
 
Right - so the trials ratchet will wear faster. It can be bought separately at tartybikes.
 
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