Help with wiring in new no-name controller please!

[alban]

Got a Tonaro stock controller - see attached wiring diagram. Want to sub it for a no-name Chinese 36/48V with/without sensor BL one. Only got pics showing role of each plug for that - see attached also.
Tried to plug the new one a via soldered on Deans into a 36V battery. Big spark first time! No V anywhere. 3rd thinner wire in the power leads plug I haven't connected - switch? Stock wiring has no battery switch so have I got to connect that to the power lead or something to turn it on?

What I think I know already...
Stock
Throttle goes to 5-way with brake and plus a grey wire I can't sus as it seems to do nothing when bike indoors not tried outside (does it operate the 3 power levels?).
Black 'winged' 3 way JST plug is pedal assist sensor.
White 3 way is Red 36V, Black Gnd and an Orange lead - this plug enables the power on/off switch, batt level meter and power level indicator switch. When Orange wire removed the throttle and PAS don't work but the meter powers on and all power indicators seem to work and switch.

New One
Problem is that I'm not sure of the equivalent leads in the new controller (Halls, power, phase, PAS, throttle OK I think). It's the blue power level plug, meter wire and their equivalent ones in the stock setup I don't get. Partic the orange wire in the stock. Also which brake wire to insert - low or high?
Thanks to any patient electronics wiz.

Later...
Tested new controller with 4.5V supply to thinner yellow wire in power plug to see if it turned anything on. It did.
PAS Red=1.2V; Throttle Red=1.4V; Horn Orange=4.4V; Halls Red=1.2V, 3 Colours all=1.4V; 'Speed-mode'=all 0V; meter 0V; Phase=0V(all); 'anti-steal' red=2.5V.
Still unsure whether to connect that thinner yellow to the 36V batt supply!

Later still....
OK - found out that I can connect the thinner yellow wire to power lead (+) and it fully wakes up the new controller.
Stock controller - Orange wire in 3 way carries 36V back to the controller from the on/off switch at the bars and wakes it up. Maybe I should connect the thinner yellow wire to that orange one to turn on the new controller- if a 36V supply works from the new controller without yellow wire being connected to the pos power lead that I can feed into that 3 way plug ??
Grey wire in 5 way carries the power level signal - a stepped increase in V means low-high power. The new controller doesn't have a lead for this digital signal but has a 3 wire system - so I'll just connect the 2 wires that give me high power and stick with that.
Yellow brake wire gives 36V only when brake is pulled on, 0V otherwise. Hmm.. so should I connect the low or high brake cable from the new one (and from where does the 36V signal come as there's only 2 wires to the brake and the other is black and presumably grnd from the diagram - 0V on testing?)?

 

[gorach]

Hey Alban, I looked at this for awhile before deciding the stock controller would do fine for me for now. The wiring loom on this bike is a mess and derives from the old basic system on the old type COMPY. They didnt bother redoing it with the newer models hence the confusion.
Dunno if I can help but here is what I found.
5 pin connector on controller;
yellow=36v signal from brakes (like u said) which is a high voltage brake wire and requires a common ground too.
brown/purpleish=1.7v,2.7v,3.7v ie the 3 speed switch. Think ur right, the new controller may not be directly compatible.
mauve(blue)=4.8v steady, prob for throttle 5v supply.
green=throttle signal variable to 5v.
Actually these maybe the wires coming from the bike loom to the 5 pin connector, I looked at this awhile ago. I should have a more uptodate diagram than you linked. Will look it out and mebe check the wiring colours again. Best of luck man.

 

[d8veh]

The big spark is nothing to worry about. You allways get that when you plug a battery directly to a controller because the capacitors in the controller take an instantaneous high current.

Your problem is the thin orange wire on your controller needs to be connected to battert voltage. You can put a switch on it to switch the controller on and off (standby).

Brakes go to low voltage brake connector. It's a simple switch between the two wires.

 

[alban]

Cheers guys - always count on you two!
OK bit confused re Orange wire which is on the old controller - so are you are saying it does carry a 36V supply back to the controller and wakes it up? So does it have to be connected or can I just ignore that whole 3-way and attach thin yellow wire to batt positive to be always 'on' ? The red wire in that 3-way carries the 36v supply to the switch I think and is just the batt V meter and switch (light too but I don't have)? The horn and 'anti-steal' on the new carry a 36V supply.
I'll join the 2 wires that give high power in the new 'speed mode' plug.
Brake to the 'low V' wire - OK. So I only get 36V reading when the switch is closed then? I thought I would have V reading even if the circuit wasn't complete (big holes in my electrical understanding becoming apparent!).
My throttle only seems to give 3.6V max - is that a problem?

 

[gorach]

Alban, I just looked at the wiring loom again, here is what I found.
controller 5 pin connector;
black=ground
red=4.8v supply
yellow=brake 0v, applied 36v ie high voltage
green=0.8v-3.8v throttle
grey=1.8v,2.8v,3.8v 3spd switch ie the JT-790 unit on handbars

the other 3pin connector
red=36v constant regardless of controller being on or off
black=ground
orange=36v on, 0v off
So you need a constant 36v supply and ground('horn and antisteal') to the jt790 unit with prob your wee red wire from new controller to orange on bike.That should hopefully switch the controller on and off, but your still left with the grey 3spd switch wire???? Throttle needs a 5v + and - supply plus the green signal wire. The old controller used an applied 36v yellow for the brake but mebe fine with new controller LV brake wire-this is the only yellow I can see. Confused? me too..........

below is a slightly newer wiring diagram , best of luck.

 

[d8veh]

I'm totally confused now. Which controller do you want to use? The Bighit controller has an orange wire, which goes to your ignition switch and battery meter. The diagram isn't very clear, but it should be the same as any standard Chinese controller and so the orange has to be connected to battery voltage (36v) via the switch, and when the switch is on, the battery indicator lights light up. In the diagram, it shows 36v (DC+) coming out the controller to the switch and going back down the orange. That red wire must be connected to the thick red inside the controller via the internal wiring. The 36v is also used for the 36v riding lights
I can't see your no name controller diagram because I don't have MS Word, but from you description, it's the same as usual:
There should be three wire for power (thick red; thick black; thin red, orange or pink). The thin wire has to be powered with battery voltage (36v) to activate the controller. Easiest explanation is like this: Connect it directly to the battery; cut it in the middle; send each end to a switch; then connect the battery indicator light wire to the controller side of the switch. Then your indicator lights will come on when the controller is activated and vice versa. If you connect the indicator lights to the battery side of the switch, they'll be on all the time your battery is on.
The brakes on your bike are standard 2-wire brake switches that simply join the two wire when you apply the brake. There are two wires connected to the Bighit controller: one is 0V (black) and the other is the return (yellow) that pulls a pad on the pcb down to 0v and tells the controller logic to stop power. No name controllers usually have black and yellow wires as well, but could be any colour. There's not usually any other two-wire connectors so you know which ones are for the brakes. Sometimes there's only one two way connector on the controller, so you have to splice your brake wires together in parallel so that you have an either/or situation. It doesn't matter which way round the wires go because it's only a switch.

 

[alban]

OK guys think I've got the idea now. Just awaiting a 6-way from ebay to wire the new controller to fit the stock wiring so I can use it.
Thanks again for chipping in.

 

[alban]

OK got the new controller working - sort of! I decided to just disconnect and ignore the 3-way that included the orange wire from the stock wiring loom - so bypassing the power switch etc. Everything seems to work but the PAS... Throttle OK. Brakes cut throttle. Runs with/without Halls connected.
Oddly when I measure the V on the 3 wires for the PAS coming from the controller (when PAS unplugged) one is 4.9V (so Power?) but another is 4.2V! (The last is 0V - black Grnd). Why is there a big V on what is presumably the signal wire when the PAS is not operational?!
Maybe the orange wire 3-way above needs to be connected to the new one's third thin power wire and red to a 36V power wire for the PAS to work - perhaps it needs to be switched on at the 'JT-790' (bars batt meter etc)?

 

[d8veh]

Which side have you got your sensor. If on the chain-wheel side, the shint magnets face the sensor. If on the non-chainwheel side, you flip the magnet disk so that the shiny side is away from the sensor. Sometimes, different controllers (like the Cyclamatic onewant the same magnet disk and sensor to turn the opposite way. To cut a long story short, try flipping the magnet disk, or pedal backwards and see if it works.

You can't get any meaning by measuring the voltage on the signal wire: It pulses on and off depending on the position of the magnets.

 

[alban]

Thanks d8veh. Tried what you suggested but still no go. Disc is on the non-chainwheel side. Was working with the old controller. Hmmm..
Was concerned re which PAS wire was which on the new controller. Presumably the 4.9V is 5V and the 4.2V the signal? Tried swapping in plug - made no difference.

Also is the fact that the throttle signal only gets to 3.6V likely to limit the power from the throttle?

 

[alban]

OK - reversed leads in new PAS connector and then re-flipped PAS disc and it worked. So disc did have to be reversed to work with different controller but so did the leads - had to get the right combo.

Now trying to calc how much current I can put thro this controller without frying components!
Want to go to 25A so = 900W at stall which means a greater phase current than 25A. I saw an equation on ebikes.ca [I=sqroot(maxW/motorR)] - so depends upon the motor R. I can't ascertain the motor R so can I assume a ball park figure for a 200W rated one? Say 0.5 Ohms? If so then max current would be 42A at stall? Would most fets etc stand that? Which are the components at risk and how would I know if they could stand it?