HEY ALL YOU MAC Drivers. What's The Limit?

[DAND214]

What do you think a 8 turn MAC will handle? 260lbs gross, 26" MTB, 15s4p Lipo, 12 fet Infinion irfb4110 fets.

Max phase and current, block time?

Running 100amp phase 65 current and 1.0 block time.
Stock phase wires 6" into hub, 12ga up.
At 120% throttle hard pedaling I can make just over 40mph. 60% is 23mph, 85% 33+

I don't ride wot most the time, just worried about what the most I can pump thru the stock phase before upgrading.

I don't know what Keywin sets controllers at. Anyone know?
It's a little twitchy now and looking to tame it down a little.

Dan

 

[neptronix]

230lbs rider here and i carry 20AH+ of battery often so the total weight is definitely higher than yours.

15S4P is fantastic on that setup, but it rides the edge of the motor's reliability at that point. Absolutely keep the amps below 40A, for the reliability of the motor.

For phase current, do 2x or 2.5x the battery amps.

I thought that 101% - 120% didn't work on these motors...

Only controller that works well ( where the throttle isn't basically like an on-off switch ) that i know of is cell_man's newer, slightly customized infineons ( eb3 boards ).

What do you think a 8 turn MAC will handle? 260lbs gross, 26" MTB, 15s4p Lipo, 12 fet Infinion irfb4110 fets.

Max phase and current, block time?

Running 100amp phase 65 current and 1.0 block time.
Stock phase wires 6" into hub, 12ga up.
At 120% throttle hard pedaling I can make just over 40mph. 60% is 23mph, 85% 33+

I don't ride wot most the time, just worried about what the most I can pump thru the stock phase before upgrading.

I don't know what Keywin sets controllers at. Anyone know?
It's a little twitchy now and looking to tame it down a little.

Dan

 

[DAND214]

neptronix I thought that 101% - 120% didn't work on these motors...

Oh it sure does! The 3 spedd switch makes a big change. Even before i flashed the board top speed was about 36. And no load there is a huge change in speed. My CA is a SA so I can't get rear speed.

the board is the new EB312 kit from Keywin. I finished it, ran fine but you know what this is all about. Just can't leave the damn bikes alone.

I am seeing 75amp on the CA, stock showed about 50a.

What will fail? the clutch or the gears?

I love the low end torque, it almost climbs straight up with a little assist.

i don't want to ruin it. So if I cut back on the amp draw to 40a and the Phase at 100 you think it will live?

I wonder what is special with the Cell_mans controller.

I'm about 180 and bike at 80 to 90 with tools, etc.

Dan

 

[Philistine]

What will fail? the clutch or the gears?

Generally either the gears will burr, or if you throw enough amps into them, some members have melted and shorted the phase wires. If you keep the amps to 40amps and don't go much over 50v, you will be fine in my opinion. I have run my BMCV3 (which is basically a Mac) on that for well over a year and have never even seen wearing on the gears, but my understanding is that if you run them at 50amps+ the gears start wearing quickly. But in my opinion you don't need that kind of amperage on these motors, as the point of them is that they are light and intended for slightly lower power, if you want a motorbike style ebike running multi-KW go the DD route.

I wonder what is special with the Cell_mans controller.

I had thought Cell_man used infineons, in which case I don't see why his infineon would be different to any other for running them. I have run multiple controllers on my BMC and I have noticed no difference between any of them, except for the original BMC controller I had, but that was only because it had a specific function called "Soft start", which fed amps slower at the start, to stop the rushed takeoff with the gears.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

The clutch will go if you turn up the amps too much, the gears are really strong!

There is a newer version on the way soon enough for the mac.

I was using 16S LiPo, 50 amp battery and 90-110 phase. Addictive for sure. And 40 mph no problem. Hill climbing is amazing.

I killed the clutch.

I think the motor is better suited to 48-52 volts and cell mans settings on his 12 fet controller give a total of 2200 watts and I think that's enough really, or 16 S Lipo or 60 volts will still give you good speed and still good torque, it is a very efficient motor at 30 mph <

48 volt LiFeP04 on 120% speed setting will do 30-31 mph max. 16 S LiPo 41 mph max!

Even at 3kw acceleration the phase wires never got hot at all.

I really love it, and miss it. I'm waiting on cell man to get new parts. But he is up to his eyes at the minute and I'm not in a major rush.

 

[Racer_X]

Great info guys, What is this your talking about o00scorpion00o

There is a newer version on the way soon enough for the mac.

Can you give us more details.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Cell-man is working on improvements to the mac.

I'm sure he will tell us when he has it ready the changes made.

 

[DAND214]

o00scorpion00o

The clutch will go if you turn up the amps too much, the gears are really strong!

YOU WIN! I lowered the current to 45 and a short ride today killed the clutch. Not the 75 amp but only 45. That also lowered the top speed a little.

Any Idea when Cell_man will get new style clutches?
I have it fixed since I also have V1BMC parts, newer design ones with green gears. Hope they hold up till new stuff is out.

If this doesn't work, it's back to 9C DD. I love the torque but if it won't take 45amps I don't think i will miss it as much as I thought I would.
I just climb the big hill at the park just for fun but most of the land is pretty flat around here.

But it's back to ride another day and a whole lot more at a lower power level.

Dan

 

[o00scorpion00o]

o00scorpion00o

The clutch will go if you turn up the amps too much, the gears are really strong!

YOU WIN! I lowered the current to 45 and a short ride today killed the clutch. Not the 75 amp but only 45. That also lowered the top speed a little.

Any Idea when Cell_man will get new style clutches?
I have it fixed since I also have V1BMC parts, newer design ones with green gears. Hope they hold up till new stuff is out.

If this doesn't work, it's back to 9C DD. I love the torque but if it won't take 45amps I don't think i will miss it as much as I thought I would.
I just climb the big hill at the park just for fun but most of the land is pretty flat around here.

But it's back to ride another day and a whole lot more at a lower power level.

Dan

Sorry about your clutch

The mac is a great motor and does what it's designed to do brilliantly when run at no mote than 2kw, and that's still plenty fast.

Hopefully the new design clutch will make a difference, but the key way is another weak link and needs to be addressed too. There should be more than one key way.

If you want a motor with a lot of torque then get a magic pie, and an 18 fet controller, you will need about 60 volts or 16 S lipo,should get you 35 mph with 120 % throttle setting in the controller software. 72 volts you should see close to 40 mph. In a 26" rim.

I love the mac especially for its free wheel, if easier peddling is of no concern then fix the mac, sell it and get a pie!

I

 

[DAND214]

So far I'll keep the MAC. I have other DD's to run. I just like the weight and the way it freewheels.

My 9C is just as fast on top end but not as strong on the bottomend. But then again, I haven't run it with the new controllers. It did 36mph on what ever the stock Infinions are set at. So I would guess much more if I run 120% and higher amps.

I'm not going to worrabout that till I repair/rebuild the swing arm on my other ride. Then i'll play with the 9C 1205 at 15s lipo and see how it runs. I have a Conhis? I think it is, 24v 500w hub that blows my 1206 9c away. It's sitting next to the 1205 waiting for a frame.

Any news on the new clutches from Cell_Man?

Dan

 

[o00scorpion00o]

The new clutches will be a good while yet, I'll be getting a test one I think, I don't know if he will have any more, he has to send new gears because the old ones won't fit with the new clutch, he has to sort out the axle too. So will be a while yet.

I would just ask him to send you a new one, just make sure the little keyway is nice and tight int he axle, if not get a new keyway too.

The clutch is cheap so I would order one now and wait until you need the new design again, just turn the amps down a bit and it will be happy.

Set it for about 2500 watts max.

 

[Architectonic]

How exactly does the 120% work on these motors? (with the eb3xx)

 

[DAND214]

120 seems to work fine. I will reflash to 100% and see what changes. Later today if time allows.

Dan

 

[DAND214]

Architectonic

How exactly does the 120% work on these motors? (with the eb3xx)

It appears to work just as listed, at 10mph 100% setting switch to 120 and it picks up 2mph. Riding at 20mph switch to 120 and it picked up 4mph. I didn't get a full speed run in as it was too windy to do it right. The 120 over the 100% feels like it still has a little more speed and draws more amps.

I'm going back to the 45, 75 120 setting, untill I find something else I like.

On the 45% throttle is much smoother and not on/off like at 100. Maybe that is why guys are talking about over touchy throttle on a MAC.

Maybe if I ran 36v it might be smother then. NOT A CHANCE. Those days are gone. I love haveing the extrapower if needed, slow speed switch puts me just over 20mph with a wide throttle ramp. Then if I need to get out of the way 120 and away it goes.

Dan

 

[Architectonic]

Ah, I've figured it out, it advances the timing so it can dump more current into the motor.

And it works! my top speed is now around 60km/h +-2km/h in normal wind. (8t, 40a, 52v LiFePO4, about 100kg including bike)



Range probably sucks at that speed though.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Ah, I've figured it out, it advances the timing so it can dump more current into the motor.

And it works! my top speed is now around 60km/h +-2km/h in normal wind. (8t, 40a, 52v LiFePO4, about 100kg including bike)



Range probably sucks at that speed though.

I can only get 48 kph on 52v LiFeP04 120% setting on the 8T, you sure it's the 8T and not the 6T ?

I get 64 kph on 16S LiPo or 60 volts Nominal.

 

[Architectonic]

Well an 8t is what it says on my invoice from Cell Man.

About 50km/h +- is what it does on the 100% setting.

 

[Quajochem]

Ah, I've figured it out, it advances the timing so it can dump more current into the motor.

And it works! my top speed is now around 60km/h +-2km/h in normal wind. (8t, 40a, 52v LiFePO4, about 100kg including bike)



Range probably sucks at that speed though.

I can only get 48 kph on 52v LiFeP04 120% setting on the 8T, you sure it's the 8T and not the 6T ?

I get 64 kph on 16S LiPo or 60 volts Nominal.

How can that be??

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Well an 8t is what it says on my invoice from Cell Man.

About 50km/h +- is what it does on the 100% setting.

That is strange as my 8T will do about 48kph max on 50 volt LiFeP04 and my friend's 8T is the same all on 120% setting.

It would be interesting to know if it was a mistake!

 

[Architectonic]

What were you doing on 100%? For the 8T Cell Man's site claims 48kph on 16S LiFePO4 (9fet with stock controller settings).

 

[mrdavies]

Can anyone post the default setting that Paul sets on the 12 fet Infinion irfb4110 fets? I only have a Mac, and don't have a PC, so there seems to be no way to change the settings .. right ? I just want do figure out what Im running with my 15s setup. on my 8t.
thanks folks..

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Can anyone post the default setting that Paul sets on the 12 fet Infinion irfb4110 fets? I only have a Mac, and don't have a PC, so there seems to be no way to change the settings .. right ? I just want do figure out what Im running with my 15s setup. on my 8t.
thanks folks..

You won't know because there is no way to read the settings in the controller software.

If you have a cycle analyst that will give you an idea of the current that it's set to, but won't tell you the phase current.

But on 2 kits from Paul the cycle analyst showed I was pulling 2100 watts on 50v Ping so that means the battery current is set to about 45 amps.

 

[DAND214]

I know I'm set at 45 battrey but the CA still says 60+ on 15s LIPO.

I even asked Keywin for the stock settings and I'm still waiting.

Des Lyen know what they are set from the factory before he adjusts them?

Dan

 

[neptronix]

Can anyone post the default setting that Paul sets on the 12 fet Infinion irfb4110 fets? I only have a Mac, and don't have a PC, so there seems to be no way to change the settings .. right ? I just want do figure out what Im running with my 15s setup. on my 8t.
thanks folks..

Hm, i got one of his first EB3 12FET controllers... it was programmed to do 56A peak, i'm sure he's turned it down since.
On the 12FET he sent me, position II was set to 120% speed, so i was topping out at 35mph on 36v, which made the controller heat up like a mother, and suck juice at an amazing rate :lol:

Position 'O' was 100% and position I was something like 50% i think.

8T with a 26" wheel on 15S RC Lipo ( or other 3.7v nominal cell ) will do 35-39mph. If you're going above that, you got the 120% setting on.. which is overkill for 57v nominal on that controller, for sure.

You can change the settings. You need a controller programming cable and header from Paul, then you need the included software. Ask him for the package. I had to tune mine down to 43A peak for longevity.

 

[DAND214]

Anybody out there really have stock settings? I got a set from Keywin, but there is no way it's what he sent.

Before flashing it the 3 speed switch had 3 speeds but he says they are set at 100% in all positions. Also the current was 30a and the phase only 78. this was for the 12fet 72v 1500w unit.
the 6 fet shows 18a phase at 47a. All speed switch was at 100% in all positions.

On the same subject but differant problem is, I get a roughness or like a missfire from 10mph to 14mph. If I change the amps it changes where the missfire is.

other is if I hit the throttle to full too fast it cuts out but will go if I return the throttle and reopen the throttle. It is more r5egular on the 100% & 120% positions. In all 3 switch positions if I open the trottle slowly it works hust fine.

So after all of that where or what is really the proper settings and WHAT IS BLOCK TIME?

Dan